the Alto Knights dir by barry levinson - robert deniro as Genovese AND Costello in history of mafia - one last classic?

[The War Report]

Vito Genovese was a b*stard. Straight up goon.

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Vito Genovese was a b*stard. Straight up goon.

Yea, he became a boss of the most powerful family, but he was def an unsophisticated street guy and one of the worst bosses, especially of that family when you have guys like:

Lucky Luciano
Frank Costello
Benny Squints
Chin Gigante

Lucky revolutionized the mob, Frank was an astute businessman/racketeer, Squints & Gigante were super secretive and low key, using front bosses.

Vito organized that big Apalachin meeting to stroke his ego as the new boss, which was a big downfall for he mob b/c it proved there was a nationwide criminal conspiracy going on that up until that point, law enforcement didn't know the scope or ignored the possibility of a national crime syndicate.

 

[The War Report]

Yea, he became a boss of the most powerful family, but he was def an unsophisticated street guy and one of the worst bosses, especially of that family when you have guys like:

Lucky Luciano
Frank Costello
Benny Squints
Chin Gigante

Lucky revolutionized the mob, Frank was an astute businessman/racketeer, Squints & Gigante were super secretive and low key, using front bosses.

Vito organized that big Apalachin meeting to stroke his ego as the new boss, which was a big downfall for he mob b/c it proved there was a nationwide criminal conspiracy going on that up until that point, law enforcement didn't know the scope or ignored the possibility of a national crime syndicate.

Frank Costello bytched out and conceded power to Vito after he came from Italy. Lucky couldn't do shyt because he was in Italy and couldn't come to the US.

 

[Bugzbunny129]

Frank Costello bytched out and conceded power to Vito after he came from Italy. Lucky couldn't do shyt because he was in Italy and couldn't come to the US.

Lucky and frank setup vito to goto jail by putting a fake dope deal on him. Where he died.

Frank was a regular consultant to bosses in the game for a long time after.

 

[The War Report]

Lucky and frank setup vito to goto jail by putting a fake dope deal on him.

Frank was a regular consultant to bosses in the game for a long time after.

I know. Vito died in prison.

Still the US government gave these white mobsters a lot leeway. They got away with a lot of shyt back in those days. If they were black or brown...

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

I know. Vito died in prison.

Still the US government gave these white mobsters a lot leeway. They got away with a lot of shyt back in those days. If they were black or brown...

I heard they had dirt on J. Edgar Hoover in the form of pictures of Hoover doing fruity shyt like cross-dressing, or some gay shyt, which would've ruined him back in that day. So, Hoover acted like there was no widespread conspiracy/mafia, etc. I'm sure the racial component was there too, but Italians and Irish were looked down upon by white america at the time (obviously not to the degree of black or brown people)

 

[Bugzbunny129]

This shyt looks like straight to VOD generic trash breh i don't know what to tell you. And Barry Levinson hasn't made a good film since the 90s

So a 45 million dollar budget, with the writer of casino and goodfellas, a director deniro made just as many films with as scorcese, in one of his last true leading man roles where he plays 2 characters… SCREAMS straight to dvd status to you?

you should check into this voices in ya head. They talking crazy. This is the story of the REAL godfather and no interest? Ok…

I know. Vito died in prison.

Still the US government gave these white mobsters a lot leeway. They got away with a lot of shyt back in those days. If they were black or brown...

Whats that gotta do with the fact frank didnt bytch out and just give up his spot?

If being white alone was the reason they succeeded their’d be a buncha white street gangs and all making huge money yet they all extinct and everyone from whites to blacks, even to this day, work with the italians. the wasps that ran america dont care about color that isnt green. Frank is the reason the mob got govt to backoff. His connections made all that happen. When he left, the downfall began.

I heard they had dirt on J. Edgar Hoover in the form of pictures of Hoover doing fruity shyt like cross-dressing, or some gay shyt, which would've ruined him back in that day. So, Hoover acted like there was no widespread conspiracy/mafia, etc. I'm sure the racial component was there too, but Italians and Irish were looked down upon by white america at the time (obviously not to the degree of black or brown people)

Exactly. They had diry on these people cuz frank had the inside tract by making friends with the elite. The idea they succeeded solely for being “white” when italians/irish are catholic and considered poor and not white enough for the “WASPS” that ran america and run it today.

They suceeded because jews , italians and irish and even blacks all came together to make money. This is about the “Syndicate” aka hundreds of crime groups around the country of different races making money together. The syndicate is not the mafia. Its bigger than that. And included blacks like bumpy johnson running harlem for them.

All controlled by frank and lucky. Thats why lucky met with bumpy once a week to play chess in nyc. As shown in godfather if harlem with frank. Murder inc. international dope smuggling. Numbers. Theres so many people involved. This is bigger than “white gangsters are successful because theyre white”. These guys created these businesses from scratch before they even existed ie. Dope.

 

[voltronblack]

I heard they had dirt on J. Edgar Hoover in the form of pictures of Hoover doing fruity shyt like cross-dressing, or some gay shyt, which would've ruined him back in that day. So, Hoover acted like there was no widespread conspiracy/mafia, etc. I'm sure the racial component was there too, but Italians and Irish were looked down upon by white america at the time (obviously not to the degree of black or brown people)

Yes that true

"THE HISTORY OF THE CIA: Red Scare, Blackmail, and the Blue Suite," the narrator delves into the allegations of secret homosexual sex parties in the 1950s at the Plaza Hotel's blue Suite involving powerful political figures such as J. Edgar Hoover and Roy Cohn. These allegations, made by Susan Kaufman, reveal a long-standing tradition of sexual blackmail within the American deep state. The narrator suggests that the actions at the blue Suite served as a blueprint for future intelligence-affiliated blackmail operations, such as the Epstein case. These revelations shed light on the connections, motivations, and interplay between mobsters, government officials, and spooks in New York and their influence on early Operation Gladio in Western Europe.

he use of homosexuality as a blackmail tool within the CIA. The narrator highlights the fact that many of the men involved in accusing others of homosexuality during the Red Scare era also had serious allegations of being homosexual themselves. Roy Cohn, a key figure in McCarthy's trials, is described as a gay man who had a close relationship with J. Edgar Hoover. Hoover, who may have also been gay, played a significant role in Cohn's career and even recommended him to McCarthy. Cohn was connected to various powerful figures, including Lewis Rosensteel, Donald Trump, and Cardinal Spellman, all of whom were associated with the Blue Suite parties. Cardinal Spellman, who was rumored to be gay, was allegedly involved in procuring young boys, a proclivity that he shared with Cohn. These connections suggest the existence of a deeper reason behind the use of homosexuality as a blackmail tool, possibly involving higher purposes and ulterior motives.

the career of George Hunter White, an overlooked figure in the history of the CIA. White was instrumental in liaising with Sicilian American mob boss Lucky Luciano under Operation Underworld. He later approached Governor Tom Dewey to extradite Luciano to Italy, despite Dewey previously locking him up in 1936. Dewey's investment in the obscure Mary Carter paint company, later renamed Resorts International, is seen as suspicious, as it was rumored to be a CIA and Mafia front. Resorts International would briefly be owned by Donald Trump in the 1980s. White's multiple roles in the Office of Strategic Services, Federal Bureau of Narcotics, and CIA give him a unique perspective on the intermingling of government and organized crime during the Cold War

the excerpt discusses the career of George White, a former intelligence agent who was believed to be more loyal to the OSS and CIA than to the FBI. White trained future CIA spymasters and worked closely with James Angleton. He was known for working with mobsters and criminals to accomplish tasks, which likely caught Angleton's attention. As the CIA evolved, a second class of employees known as "The Operators" emerged, including White, who carried out more operational tasks. White's connections to organized crime were evident in his involvement in the CIA's mind control program and working with Mafia pimps. This section highlights the integration of the CIA with organized crime and shows the agency's evolving structure.
the narrator mentions that two men allegedly met in Sicily in 1950, both of whom had previous ties to George White. During this time, Meyer Lansky traveled to Sicily and met with Lucky Luciano, although the purpose of the trip remains unclear. The CIA also took aggressive actions in southern France in 1950 and 1951, aiming to place the docks under the control of the Corsican Mafia. The CIA's involvement in the region would continue to ensure that certain factions remained in control of the opium fields in Sean. Additionally, George White would return with a French mobster under CIA employ. The next episode will explore the establishment of the French Connection and the shift of heroin flows away from Sicily towards Marseille, which was a prominent trade route during the early Cold War. This period will also introduce the gladio stay-behind forces in France, as well as encounters with mafiosos, former Nazis, crooked cops, and devious CIA agents. The narrator expresses gratitude for the support and explains the addition of a Patreon account for those interested in supporting his independent coverage.

Mafia Allies and the Beginning of the Global Drug Connection​

.Today we examine the OSS' work in Burma and Paul Helliwell's plan to marry the CIA to the global organized crime networks.

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

So a 45 million dollar budget, with the writer of casino and goodfellas, a director deniro made just as many films with as scorcese, in one of his last true leading man roles where he plays 2 characters… SCREAMS straight to dvd status to you?

you should check into this voices in ya head. They talking crazy. This is the story of the REAL godfather and no interest? Ok…



Whats that gotta do with the fact frank didnt bytch out and just give up his spot?

If being white alone was the reason they succeeded their’d be a buncha white street gangs and all making huge money yet they all extinct and everyone from whites to blacks, even to this day, work with the italians. the wasps that ran america dont care about color that isnt green. Frank is the reason the mob got govt to backoff. His connections made all that happen. When he left, the downfall began.




Exactly. They had diry on these people cuz frank had the inside tract by making friends with the elite. The idea they succeeded solely for being “white” when italians/irish are catholic and considered poor and not white enough for the “WASPS” that ran america and run it today.

They suceeded because jews , italians and irish and even blacks all came together to make money. This is about the “Syndicate” aka hundreds of crime groups around the country of different races making money together. The syndicate is not the mafia. Its bigger than that. And included blacks like bumpy johnson running harlem for them.

All controlled by frank and lucky. Thats why lucky met with bumpy once a week to play chess in nyc. As shown in godfather if harlem with frank. Murder inc. international dope smuggling. Numbers. Theres so many people involved. This is bigger than “white gangsters are successful because theyre white”. These guys created these businesses from scratch before they even existed ie. Dope.

Facts.

Italians succeeded in organized crime, b/c they had a strong code of silence (at that time) b/c Sicily had a STRONG distrust of their gov't & previous rulers for centuries. They also had the rigid military-like structure where most gangs (especially at the time) had lose structures without defined roles. This helped the italians band together, grow in strength, then the younger guys that were born in American started becoming friends with the other ethnic groups (i.e. Jews) and doing business with them, from there the National Crime Syndicate grew.

Like you said the syndicate was multi-ethnic, and it wasn't the mafia, but rather the mob, jews, blacks, irish, etc.

National Crime Syndicate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you have more in-depth info on how it become defunct? Wiki states:

Although many of its members were imprisoned, and some were executed, the demise of the organization is as uncertain as its origins. By the late 1940s, Murder Inc. and most of its non-Italian components were defunct. Some individuals, such as Lansky, continued to operate as affiliates of Italian groups.

The jews did the smartest thing by going full on legit, where as the italians took a deeper diver into crime.​

 

[Bugzbunny129]

Facts.

Italians succeeded in organized crime, b/c they had a strong code of silence (at that time) b/c Sicily had a STRONG distrust of their gov't & previous rulers for centuries. They also had the rigid military-like structure where most gangs (especially at the time) had lose structures without defined roles. This helped the italians band together, grow in strength, then the younger guys that were born in American started becoming friends with the other ethnic groups (i.e. Jews) and doing business with them, from there the National Crime Syndicate grew.

Like you said the syndicate was multi-ethnic, and it wasn't the mafia, but rather the mob, jews, blacks, irish, etc.

National Crime Syndicate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you have more in-depth info on how it become defunct? Wiki states:

Although many of its members were imprisoned, and some were executed, the demise of the organization is as uncertain as its origins. By the late 1940s, Murder Inc. and most of its non-Italian components were defunct. Some individuals, such as Lansky, continued to operate as affiliates of Italian groups.

The jews did the smartest thing by going full on legit, where as the italians took a deeper diver into crime.​

Not really as its all backroom shyt.

But id assume as the feds started going at them post “valachi” and apalacin meeting (another vito move that bit him in the ass) and franks no longer protecting them all, the jews started turning legit, irish became cops, one by one all the powerful guys started getting locked up for their own locations issues, the commission just ended up becoming italians period. And rhen even they stopped taking orders from the top, to where only nyc controlled things with certain groups passing their votes onto certain families.


Im not sure how it fell apart but i know as guys csme and went, certain areas had direct links to certain families. And their votes went to them.

For example i know chicago was down with the genovese, So their vote went to to them post 60s. Philly went with genovese until their bosses were killed because the guy who killed them said they got the OK from commission but didnt and ended up going through gambinos due to the meddling. Gotti killing paul had chin (genivese) using gaspipe snd vic amuso (luchesses) to kill gotti snd crew by way of other gambinos’ sicillian connections setting it up. For example, toto rina ordered gottis death from sicily for killing paul as paul was the american connect. Its loose connections later on but in a different way instead of direct vote, So its about direct relationships really.

Kinda like sopranos how tony works with lupertazzis directly But not the others yet is a boss with his own family. You can call them mafia sure. But they arent one team or friends. Even within crews and families, theres major beef. So in a way, i get why people thought it wasnt real.


The leadership of frank lucky and meyer helped sll this work. Once they were replaced, with fed scrutiny and no protection any longer, noone had the respect to hold it together. They were the last ones to meet guys all over the country and have ties all over with huge names. The atlantic city and cuba meetings, vegas, etc. frank really steered the boat. Which is why the godfather is based on him, the same thing happened.

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Not really as its all backroom shyt.

But id assume as the feds started going at them post “valachi” and apalacin meeting (another vito move that bit him in the ass) and franks no longer protecting them all, the jews started turning legit, irish became cops, one by one all the powerful guys started getting locked up for their own locations issues, the commission just ended up becoming italians period. And rhen even they stopped taking orders from the top, to where only nyc controlled things with certain groups passing their votes onto certain families.


Im not sure how it fell apart but i know as guys csme and went, certain areas had direct links to certain families. And their votes went to them.

For example i know chicago was down with the genovese, So their vote went to to them post 60s. Philly went with genovese until their bosses were killed because the guy who killed them said they got the OK from commission but didnt and ended up going through gambinos due to the meddling. Gotti killing paul had chin (genivese) using gaspipe snd vic amuso (luchesses) to kill gotti snd crew by way of other gambinos’ sicillian connections setting it up. For example, toto rina ordered gottis death from sicily for killing paul as paul was the american connect. Its loose connections later on but in a different way instead of direct vote, So its about direct relationships really.

Kinda like sopranos how tony works with lupertazzis directly But not the others yet is a boss with his own family. You can call them mafia sure. But they arent one team or friends. Even within crews and families, theres major beef. So in a way, i get why people thought it wasnt real.


The leadership of frank lucky and meyer helped sll this work. Once they were replaced, with fed scrutiny and no protection any longer, noone had the respect to hold it together. They were the last ones to meet guys all over the country and have ties all over with huge names. The atlantic city and cuba meetings, vegas, etc. frank really steered the boat. Which is why the godfather is based on him, the same thing happened.

I'm of the belief that at their absolute peak, Chicago was close, at the level or maybe even surpassing the Genovese. Was wondering what your thoughts were on this.

I think Chicago at their peak was definitely more powerful than the Colombos for example, but it can be argued that Gambinos and Genovese were always more powerful.

Chicago never had as many made guys as gambinos or genovese but they went with lower #s with more quality, there's a reason why they've only had 1 made guy flip in 120+ years.

 

[Bugzbunny129]

I'm of the belief that at their absolute peak, Chicago was close, at the level or maybe even surpassing the Genovese. Was wondering what your thoughts were on this.

I think Chicago at their peak was definitely more powerful than the Colombos for example, but it can be argued that Gambinos and Genovese were always more powerful.

Chicago never had as many made guys as gambinos or genovese but they went with lower #s with more quality, there's a reason why they've only had 1 made guy flip in 120+ years.

Oh for sure. Chicago was a powerhouse for crime and they more than any other group not named the genovese, had tentacles everywhere due to political power from capone days. They owned the area and controlled all the little bosses around (like kansas city, etc) and were the main benefactors of vegas when nyc left it. The boss there was hooked in a lot like costello and im sure thats why chicago and genovese relationship still exists.

Chicago tho is technically… not the mafia per say. The organization itself that is. The leaders end up being made but most their underlings not, more like the old “syndicate” than any group. Al capone was mafia but never made it a full italian organization so it always was made up of all races. Guys in the org could be made, but they still worked for the org before “the mafia”.

For example, toyko joe their famous asian bookmaker. Half the hitters al had were irish, polish and jewish.

Even the genovese, i think they had like leas than 10 made guys flip period in 100 years. Genovese is majors today for sure. They own manhattan. Obviously theres a tie there. Kinda like how the bononnos technically controlled montreal throughy he rizzutos.

Columbos are the smallest nyc family. Bononnos next. Then luchesses. Columbos are known for being small, but all their guys are hitters. Bononnos got kicked off the commission after donnie brasco, so they became huge drug dealers openly. Joe bonbano started the sicillian heroin connect with lucky, so galante wanted to control drugs in nyc so the gambinos had him killed. When galante got out of jail, he blew up franks mosoleum as a fukk you. Luchesses were huge drug guys in 70s through trumanti (as seen in american gangster) but once tony ducks went down, the war for them had amuso and gas pipe literally kill everyone for no reason. All 3 have been hurt since. And gambinos went down in power after gotti put the light on them.

Whereas genovese were so plugged into nyc, that chins kids / fam have 300k legit jobs still to this day while gottis grandsons are selling oxy like a coli bruh. chins brother was the head of catholic church in nyc… and they been off the radar. Their leader now loses all types of fbi tails because he rides a bicycle all over nyc. Hes been in powet for 20 years and barley anyone knows his name.


One of the most secretive families is detroit. I think they had one snitch. They had tunnels under all their houses connecting all the mafia homes and shyt. Never hear anything about them its strictly a “family” business. No outsiders. Thats why they still around right now and are ok.


The street guys never understand they are able to operate how they do because the bosses and top guys are making the connections that allow it to happen. They wan say they went soft. But they stepped up a level in reality. Every single family that is still around with power had tremendous politcal power and control. Which is why they went for unions and all their drug runners are sicillian imports with little to no connections to them.

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Oh for sure. Chicago was a powerhouse for crime and they more than any other group not named the genovese, had tentacles everywhere due to political power from capone days. They owned the area and controlled all the little bosses around (like kansas city, etc) and were the main benefactors of vegas when nyc left it. The boss there was hooked in a lot like costello and im sure thats why chicago and genovese relationship still exists.

Chicago tho is technically… not the mafia per say. The organization itself that is. The leaders end up being made but most their underlings not, more like the old “syndicate” than any group. Al capone was mafia but never made it a full italian organization so it always was made up of all races. Guys in the org could be made, but they still worked for the org before “the mafia”.

For example, toyko joe their famous asian bookmaker. Half the hitters al had were irish, polish and jewish.

Even the genovese, i think they had like leas than 10 made guys flip period in 100 years. Genovese is majors today for sure. They own manhattan. Obviously theres a tie there. Kinda like how the bononnos technically controlled montreal throughy he rizzutos.

Columbos are the smallest nyc family. Bononnos next. Then luchesses. Columbos are known for being small, but all their guys are hitters. Bononnos got kicked off the commission after donnie brasco, so they became huge drug dealers openly. Luchesses were huge drug guys in 70s through trumanti (as seen in american gangster) but once tony ducks went down, the war for them had amuso and gas pipe literally kill everyone for no reason. All 3 have been hurt since. And gambinos went down in power after gotti put the light on them.

Whereas genovese were so plugged into nyc, that chins kids / fam have 300k legit jobs still to this day while gottis grandsons are selling oxy like a coli bruh. chins brother was the head of catholic church in nyc… and they been off the radar. Their leader now loses all types of fbi tails because he rides a bicycle all over nyc. Hes been in powet for 20 years and barley anyone knows his name.


One of the most secretive families is detroit. I think they had one snitch. They had tunnels under all their houses connecting all the mafia homes and shyt. Never hear anything about them its strictly a “family” business. No outsiders. Thats why they still around right now and are ok.


The street guys never understand they are able to operate how they do because the bosses and top guys are making the connections that allow it to happen. Every single family that is still around with power had tremendous politcal power. Which is why they went for unions and all their drug runners are sicillian imports with little to no connections to them.

Good shyt. Genovese family, spawned Chicago too, another reason for their close relationship. Back before it was genovese, or even Luciano, Joe Masseria sent Capone to Chicago with the ability to make 10 guys. Eventually Lucky took control of the family by killing Masseria, etc. and Chicago then had their own thing.

 

[Bugzbunny129]

Good shyt. Genovese family, spawned Chicago too, another reason for their close relationship. Back before it was genovese, or even Luciano, Joe Masseria sent Capone to Chicago with the ability to make 10 guys. Eventually Lucky took control of the family by killing Masseria, etc. and Chicago then had their own thing.

Yea. I forget who is who or what family was what in beginning but yea the og family is i believe the genovese when it was run by “lupo the wolf”. Off head i think thats where “genovese/luciano” family comes from. Wheras maranzanos second in command was joe bonanno, who then was made boss. And both of them setup the whole dope connection together with the sicillians.


You ever see “the gangster chronicals”?

The gangster chronicles : Lasker, Michael : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

213 pages ; 18 cm

archive.org

*edir sorry this is the book based ont he show. Its a mini series im sure its free on youtube.

Its an old mini series from tv that goes into the whole thing and how the commission came to be. All the big names. Like the original boardwalk empire. Its great. Its abut lucky and crew. Big bames and little names a like. Literally goes over how the commission came to be and how the families were split and who went where. All the names are in it. All of em.


And i know all this just because my great grandfather worked for legs diamond and my grandpops was def down with gambinos before he died. My family has had many a mafia run in around nyc.

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

Yea. I forget who is who or what family was what in beginning but yea the og family is i believe the genovese when it was run by “lupo the wolf”. Off head i think thats where “genovese/luciano” family comes from. Wheras maranzanos second in command was joe bonanno, who then was made boss. And both of them setup the whole dope connection together with the sicillians.


You ever see “the gangster chronicals”?

The gangster chronicles : Lasker, Michael : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

213 pages ; 18 cm

archive.org

*edir sorry this is the book based ont he show. Its a mini series im sure its free on youtube.

Its an old mini series from tv that goes into the whole thing and how the commission came to be. All the big names. Like the original boardwalk empire. Its great. Its abut lucky and crew. Big bames and little names a like. Literally goes over how the commission came to be and how the families were split and who went where. All the names are in it. All of em.


And i know all this just because my great grandfather worked for legs diamond and my grandpops was def down with gambinos before he died. My family has had many a mafia run in around nyc.

I think I've seen parts of this before, good lookin out.

I've always been interested in crime syndicates whether it's black, italian, int'l groups etc.

You've seen ZeroZeroZero and Gomorra, right? The int'l groups are at a scale in the billions, that shyt always fascinates me