Survived Early 90s Drug Game in NYC AMA

Sensei

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They came here because they had family here already in high west indian areas, But you are right about them coming into town, and setting up shop, but that is one reason why the violence was so high. They had to shoot shyt up, because people weren't gonna just let them take over. A whole bunch of them got ran out, or eventually worked with black americans. They messed themselves up, though, because being that they were so violent, they ended up getting deported in the 90's.

Dominicans was a little wild in the 80's, but by the 90's, I didn't find them to be wild like that, but the same with them, they were in predominately dominican areas. In fact Dominicans were cool to do business with, they weren't about the games that a lot of blacks, and puerto ricans had. WIth blacks, regardless of where they were from, and P.R., its like they would try to overcharge you for very little or just greedy, to me. With Dominicans they were fair, and willing to work with you. That's why i think Dominicans are still in the game, with not such a bad rep the other groups have.

Some yardies may of had family but not most of them,WIs were in NYC for al ong time but really made their enclaves in the boroughs around the late 80s and 90s.In the 80s you would have hard time bing WI then.Some of these areas like Flatbush ,Crown Heights, 90s,etc didn’t have much blacks living there for a long time so they didn’t have much resistance in these areas.And mind you it wasn’t just Yardies , it was Panamanians,Guyanese,Trinidadians,Belizeans,and Zoe’s getting in the drug game too.Most of the Yardies faced competition from themselves and had to go against old beefs from Kingston rivalries.

Yardies also went to spots Uptown and Bx, and by the 90s they got more smart figuring fighting over turfs wasn’t worth it so thy switched it up and didn’t do hand 2 hand on the block(with exceptions of trees but meh).


And yes Dominicans had weight and weren’t on some take over shyt, just being a good connect to a lot of people of different backgrounds ,not trying to take over everyone’s hood. But if we go by that logic Alpo and a lot of NY,LA,Bay Area,Detroit cats,etc didn’t take over hoods on some strong arm shyt either.That stuff happened rarely, what happened is shotcallers,heads and OGs of the block would have a connect from OT they would get supply from and more than likely make sure he is not fukked with. If need be he might get a spot MAYBE.I have heard some LA and B More cats doing this in NY.
 
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Why do you think the hood never went to war with cops in NYC?:jbhmm: I'm from Cali. My hood was so bad that the Feds had to come in to take over a few times because nikkas in the hood in Cali known for not being afraid to spray up the cops. :whoa: After a while, the cops wouldn't even really police the hood anymore, they would just slide through sometimes and not stop because they were justifiably shook. They wouldn't even reopen the old police substation in my old hood unless the whole building was wrapped in bulletproof glass. Is it because the cops in NY were being paid off? Or is it because the cops where you were at weren't around much because they were scared to come to the hood when it got real bad?

Do you think NYC adopting gang culture is stupid? I know the older heads with the hustler mentality generally look down on the new generation adopting gangs, let alone gangs from other cities, even if it's just using the same name like the original NY Bloods in the mid 90's.

Do you find it hard working in the white collar office world where most of the people you interact with day to day have lived very sheltered/privileged lives? Do you feel like you're hiding a secret identity from all of the uptight white folks you probably deal with at work daily?

Ever seen someone get bodied right in front of your eyes?

Did NY have a lot of large caliber weaponry on the street back then? Or was it mostly handguns? Were drive by's ever big in the hood in your area? I'm guessing no.

Did your hood beef with the other side over some dumb shyt that had nothing to do with money or the dope game that resulted in a lot of your homies getting killed and a need for retaliation?
 

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Some yardies may of had family but not most of them,WIs were in NYC for al ong time but really made their enclaves in the boroughs around the late 80s and 90s.In the 80s you would have hard time bing WI then.Some of these areas like Flatbush ,Crown Heights, 90s,etc didn’t have much blacks living there for a long time so they didn’t have much resistance in these areas.And mind you it wasn’t just Yardies , it was Panamanians,Guyanese,Trinidadians,Belizeans,and Zoe’s getting in the drug game too.Most of the Yardies faced competition from themselves and had to go against old beefs from Kingston rivalries.

Yardies also went to spots Uptown and Bx, and by the 90s they got more smart figuring fighting over turfs wasn’t worth it so thy switched it up and didn’t do hand 2 hand on the block(with exceptions of trees but meh).


And yes Dominicans had weight and weren’t on some take over shyt, just being a good connect to a lot of people of different backgrounds ,not trying to take over everyone’s hood. But if we go by that logic Alpo and a lot of NY,LA,Bay Area,Detroit cats,etc didn’t take over hoods on some strong arm shyt either.That stuff happened rarely, what happened is shotcallers,heads and OGs of the block would have a connect from OT they would get supply from and more than likely make sure he is not fukked with. If need be he might get a spot MAYBE.
Going by what older people told me, my west indians older people told me, and reading, most came here in the mid 70's-the early 80's. The blacks who lived in Flatbush/crown heights/ 90's were black americans, but it wasn't much, those areas were mainly jewish, and italian, with some P.R.'s. This makes sense because the drug crews got big in the mid 80's when a lot more poor west indians who weren't as educated started coming. As far as the other groups, they were VERY little, except Trinidadians. Haitians weren't really known for doing it in the drug game like that. I only started hearing about Haitians doing their thing in the mid 90's, and on.

Most did go at each other, but they still had issues with black americans because of the arrogance. A lot didn't like that shyt, and shyt would pop off because there were still a lot of black americans in these neighborhoods, it wasn't just west indians. When you look at east flatbush that's right close to east ny, and Brownsville, so it wasn't just them going at each other all the time. BUT, it wasn't all hate either, it was a mix. That's why I was blessed to be raised there, I can tell who is about some bullshyt, and who is cool, just from watching them. It wasn;t like now where rap is everywhere, and people emulate rappers, only young people who grew up here, and mingled were into rap, but people who were older or just got here didn't like rap, so I got a chance to study both the yankees, and the off the boat ones, you will start seeing differences. You can learn who came from poverty, and who didn't. I would hear the stories of how some lived back home. I remember this kid telling me how his brother shot somebody in the dance, and him trying to come up. Then I would talk to those who came from a family of doctors, and see they were nto about the patois talk, and dancehall music, that was ghetto shyt to them.

You are right about the ot connections happening. BUT, them Jamaicans were doing that. I have stories on them shooting up shyt in Baltimore. My people told me they pulled up in a van, and started shooting up the block, but as we can see that shyt didn't last.
 
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Why do you think the hood never went to war with cops in NYC?:jbhmm: I'm from Cali. My hood was so bad that the Feds had to come in to take over a few times because nikkas in the hood in Cali known for not being afraid to spray up the cops. :whoa: After a while, the cops wouldn't even really police the hood anymore, they would just slide through sometimes and not stop because they were justifiably shook. They wouldn't even reopen the old police substation in my old hood unless the whole building was wrapped in bulletproof glass. Is it because the cops in NY were being paid off? Or is it because the cops where you were at weren't around much because they were scared to come to the hood when it got real bad?

Do you think NYC adopting gang culture is stupid? I know the older heads with the hustler mentality generally look down on the new generation adopting gangs, let alone gangs from other cities, even if it's just using the same name like the original NY Bloods in the mid 90's.

Do you find it hard working in the white collar office world where most of the people you interact with day to day have lived very sheltered/privileged lives? Do you feel like you're hiding a secret identity from all of the uptight white folks you probably deal with at work daily?

Ever seen someone get bodied right in front of your eyes?

Did NY have a lot of large caliber weaponry on the street back then? Or was it mostly handguns? Were drive by's ever big in the hood in your area? I'm guessing no.

Did your hood beef with the other side over some dumb shyt that had nothing to do with money or the dope game that resulted in a lot of your homies getting killed and a need for retaliation?
NY nikkas banged on cops so much they have a 1-800-cop shot number.
I:mjlol:
 
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Going by what older people told me, my west indians older people told me, and reading, most came here in the mid 70's-the early 80's. The blacks who lived in Flatbush/crown heights/ 90's were black americans, but it wasn't much, those areas were mainly jewish, and italian, with some P.R.'s. This makes sense because the drug crews got big in the mid 80's when a lot more poor west indians who weren't as educated started coming. As far as the other groups, they were VERY little, except Trinidadians. Haitians weren't really known for doing it in the drug game like that. I only started hearing about Haitians doing their thing in the mid 90's, and on.

Most did go at each other, but they still had issues with black americans because of the arrogance. A lot didn't like that shyt, and shyt would pop off because there were still a lot of black americans in these neighborhoods, it wasn't just west indians. When you look at east flatbush that's right close to east ny, and Brownsville, so it wasn't just them going at each other all the time. BUT, it wasn't all hate either, it was a mix. That's why I was blessed to be raised there, I can tell who is about some bullshyt, and who is cool, just from watching them. It wasn;t like now where rap is everywhere, and people emulate rappers, only young people who grew up here, and mingled were into rap, but people who were older or just got here didn't like rap, so I got a chance to study both the yankees, and the off the boat ones, you will start seeing differences. You can learn who came from poverty, and who didn't. I would hear the stories of how some lived back home. I remember this kid telling me how his brother shot somebody in the dance, and him trying to come up. Then I would talk to those who came from a family of doctors, and see they were nto about the patois talk, and dancehall music, that was ghetto shyt to them.

You are right about the ot connections happening. BUT, them Jamaicans were doing that. I have stories on them shooting up shyt in Baltimore. My people told me they pulled up in a van, and started shooting up the block, but as we can see that shyt didn't last.
They went up and down the east coast taking Ls to JBM in Philly...and 4th X Kdy in DC
 

Sensei

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Going by what older people told me, my west indians older people told me, and reading, most came here in the mid 70's-the early 80's. The blacks who lived in Flatbush/crown heights/ 90's were black americans, but it wasn't much, those areas were mainly jewish, and italian, with some P.R.'s. This makes sense because the drug crews got big in the mid 80's when a lot more poor west indians who weren't as educated started coming. As far as the other groups, they were VERY little, except Trinidadians. Haitians weren't really known for doing it in the drug game like that. I only started hearing about Haitians doing their thing in the mid 90's, and on.

Most did go at each other, but they still had issues with black americans because of the arrogance. A lot didn't like that shyt, and shyt would pop off because there were still a lot of black americans in these neighborhoods, it wasn't just west indians. When you look at east flatbush that's right close to east ny, and Brownsville, so it wasn't just them going at each other all the time. BUT, it wasn't all hate either, it was a mix. That's why I was blessed to be raised there, I can tell who is about some bullshyt, and who is cool, just from watching them. It wasn;t like now where rap is everywhere, and people emulate rappers, only young people who grew up here, and mingled were into rap, but people who were older or just got here didn't like rap, so I got a chance to study both the yankees, and the off the boat ones, you will start seeing differences. You can learn who came from poverty, and who didn't. I would hear the stories of how some lived back home. I remember this kid telling me how his brother shot somebody in the dance, and him trying to come up. Then I would talk to those who came from a family of doctors, and see they were nto about the patois talk, and dancehall music, that was ghetto shyt to them.

You are right about the ot connections happening. BUT, them Jamaicans were doing that. I have stories on them shooting up shyt in Baltimore. My people told me they pulled up in a van, and started shooting up the block, but as we can see that shyt didn't last.

Trust me it wasn't just Trinidadians and Yardies doing they thing , you had Guyanese getting in the game heavy too,

Check out 0:02 of Everyday Im Hustling were Busta Rhymes talks about his coke connect from GTs/Guyanese.




Yardies were the number 1 suspects tearing up shyt with Guyanese and Trinis not coming far behind. Not sure how much clout Haitians had because they were kind of frowned upon back then.

A lot of Yardies,Trinis,and GTs ended up in other states going to war for some reason. This especially happened in DC where things were out of control.

But a lot of West Indians weren't necessarily uneducated they were poor and did anything to get out of their country,when they came to the US they did anything to make ends meet.
 

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Trust me it wasn't just Trinidadians and Yardies doing they thing , you had Guyanese getting in the game heavy too,

Check out 0:02 of Everyday Im Hustling were Busta Rhymes talks about his coke connect from GTs/Guyanese.




Yardies were the number 1 suspects tearing up shyt with Guyanese and Trinis not coming far behind. Not sure how much clout Haitians had because they were kind of frowned upon back then.

A lot of Yardies,Trinis,and GTs ended up in other states going to war for some reason. This especially happened in DC where things were out of control.

But a lot of West Indians weren't necessarily uneducated they were poor and did anything to get out of their country,when they came to the US they did anything to make ends meet.

Yeah, i do remember guyanese, but those groups, and the others you named weren't big like that. You always had exceptions, but not the norm.

As far as being educated, I'm going by what a lot told me how it was for them back home, and I did notice a difference between who had money, and who didn't, which I think had something to do with education. When I say education I don't mean regular kid schooling, I mean like college or more.

last year I was wondering why it was such a difference from the Jamaicans of the 80's-early 90's, as opposed to after that, and I was googling, then I read an article that dealt on it from 1990 in the NY times

Immigrants Look Outside New York for Better Life
Immigrants Look Outside New York for Better Life

"Caribbean people say changes in United States immigration laws have made it easier for families of poorer people to enter the United States.

Crackdown in Jamaica

''Now you're getting the lowest of the low rural people,'' said F. Donnie Forde of Caribbean-American Media Studies Inc., a study organization in Brooklyn. ''They're the ones making trouble. They have no education and are trying to make it to the top by illegal means.''

An anthropologist at New York University, Constance Sutton, said of the new immigrants, ''They violate so many of the orientations of the West Indians, who don't want to get entrapped and pulled down by the illegal economy, by violence.''

In the mid-80's, the police in Jamaica cracked down on violent gangs in the slums of Kingston. Many gang members fled to the United States, where they formed new gangs. The gang members who moved to Brooklyn and Harlem altered the reputation of the Caribbean community, which had been known as hard working and law abiding, said some people of Caribbean descent.

When some officials use phrases like ''Jamaican posses,'' they stigmatize and stereotype a larger group, some people from the Caribbean contend.

Veronica Matthews, a nurse who immigrated to New York from Guyana with her husband, Walter, and four children five years ago, said many people did not know the difference between a Jamaican and a Guyanese accent.

''So we don't like people to say we're West Indian,'' she said. ''I tell people I'm a Guyanese, from South America.''

"Until the changes in the immigration law in 1960's, Mr. Forde said, an immigrant from the Caribbean had to have $2,000 before immigrating to the United States. For Caribbean people, saving that amount indicated initiative and ambition, he added."
 
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Piri Tomas

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What % would you say made it out of the game alive and never incarcerated?
Probably about 50%. Keep in mind tens of thousands of people in the early 90s in NYC were involved in drug dealing in one capacity or another. There was a difference between selling crack here and there for extra $$ and rising to a lieutenant or boss in an organization. The higher you went, the more likely you ended up incarcerated or dead.
 

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@Piri Tomas

Around what year did you first start seeing dudes coming home Blood



Think the brother is talking about dudes from other cities and states. Like it's no Memphis or Kansas City nikkas In NYC getting to it.

.Majority of Jamaican and Dominican nikkas getting it (today,atleast) is NY born and bred or moved here mad young with links to their islands.

It was alot of the Posse cats doing they thing in the North Bronx.
"Boston Road, Shower Posse was gettin pounds from them
Till they got deported to Jamaica, still wildin out"

It's common knowledge the Bloods appeared in the NY prison system around '93/'94. Although when I was still in the game (up until early '96) they were mostly a non-factor in the streets.

I started to notice when I went uptown to visit family and friends that the Blood shyt was becoming prevalent around '99/2000. And as far as I know, the BX and Harlem jumped on that wave first in large numbers.

Once I started to see dudes with red shirts/flags all over Brooklyn, where I was living at that point (maybe a couple of years after it was popping up uptown), I knew that was the new dominant force.

There was definitely a 2-3 year period after I left the streets in which most people in NYC still associated with non-gang street teams.

I'm not a sociologist but my theory is that the rise of the gangs (Bloods and Crips) coincided with the end of large-scale open air drug markets under the Giuliani dictatorship. Once dudes didn't get their identity from the work itself, the product they sold (Red Top/Pure Energy/etc.), a certain powerful street figure known for having the drug game on lock, or a particular market that was theirs, they needed some other sort of street identity to carve out a space for themselves. I think that out of town gang identity came in to fill the vacuum.
 

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Can you speak a little on the gangs, the Bloods and SMM in particular?

SMM was just one of many crack crews in the Bronx. We just knew them as a team with crack spots in Soundview. There was nothing special or out of the ordinary about them in terms of reputation. They weren't the richest or the most violent. We didn't even know them as SMM, at least when I was in the streets. Pistol Pete was known, but the team didn't have that mystique around it yet.

There were killers all over the Bronx and Soundview wasn't regarded as the worst of the worst as far as hoods go. I mentioned it somewhere else but in the BX the worst areas were not actually the projects, but the areas with abandoned buildings, tenements, places like Hunts Point, Melrose Ave., the area all around 138th.

The government has this tendency of making it look like every crook they arrest is the don dada, biggest murderer, arch nemesis of civilization--like Pistol Pete didn't just have his projects on lock but had the whole borough under pressure as well as other states. It's how they demonize our young people and justify putting them in a cage for eternity.
 

Piri Tomas

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Why do you think the hood never went to war with cops in NYC?:jbhmm: I'm from Cali. My hood was so bad that the Feds had to come in to take over a few times because nikkas in the hood in Cali known for not being afraid to spray up the cops. :whoa: After a while, the cops wouldn't even really police the hood anymore, they would just slide through sometimes and not stop because they were justifiably shook. They wouldn't even reopen the old police substation in my old hood unless the whole building was wrapped in bulletproof glass. Is it because the cops in NY were being paid off? Or is it because the cops where you were at weren't around much because they were scared to come to the hood when it got real bad?

Cops did get shot in NYC in that era. A lot of people were armed and there was always someone especially wild with nothing to lose who would take it there. Then there was Larry Davis (no, not :ld:) who had that infamous shoot out with the police and hit a bunch of them. Larry's defense was that they were dirty and they were coming to kill him which we all believed. Fortunately a lot of Bronx juries back then were awake to the lies and deceit of the government.

As for normal, every day street dudes taking it upon themselves to blast cops...? What would the point have been? Like I've said before we were out there to get paid, we didn't have gangs that were interested in violence or targeting the government just because. And when you kill one of them anywhere in America they come down on you like the wrath of God... It's fundamentally bad business.

Back then there were less police in NYC. And policing was hands off to an extent. I think they just didn't really care what we did in the streets unless they started getting pressure from their bosses/politicians. As long as we kept that shyt in the hood and killed our own they were content. This is pre-stop and frisk New York. I would typically walk around with a pistol in my waistband just to have it on me in case. Never caught a hammer charge.


Do you think NYC adopting gang culture is stupid? I know the older heads with the hustler mentality generally look down on the new generation adopting gangs, let alone gangs from other cities, even if it's just using the same name like the original NY Bloods in the mid 90's.

I don't think it's more or less stupid/destructive than what my generation was doing in the streets. I think it's a way for kids without an identity to find one, so the purpose is a little different. A lot of people who hustled in the crack era did it because we were coming from very extreme poverty and it was seen as a necessity (myself included). It was an economic imperative (to a lesser extent social)... There are a lot of gang members who don't necessarily come from the worst socio-economic conditions and still join a gang because they feel an emptiness and need that identity. So I don't know.. They seem to serve purposes that are similar but different than what we used to do. Not better or worse. It's all counter-productive.

Do you find it hard working in the white collar office world where most of the people you interact with day to day have lived very sheltered/privileged lives? Do you feel like you're hiding a secret identity from all of the uptight white folks you probably deal with at work daily?

I don't feel like I'm hiding some sort of secret identity. I've been living as an educated taxpayer much longer than I was ever in the streets. This is my identity now. I wouldn't even know where to begin if I found myself back on a corner/in the underworld.

Most of them come from MUCH more privileged backgrounds so I think the biggest advantage I have is that I can maintain perspective. I take chances professionally (all successful people need to) because I'm less afraid of the consequences. If something doesn't work out and I lose my position, I circulate a resume and I'm somewhere else within weeks. Not the end of the world. Consequences are definitely not like they are for messing up in the streets or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


Ever seen someone get bodied right in front of your eyes?

Multiple people. Friends and strangers.

Did NY have a lot of large caliber weaponry on the street back then? Or was it mostly handguns? Were drive by's ever big in the hood in your area? I'm guessing no.

Handguns were the weapon of choice. Easy to conceal and sneak up on someone with. Cheaper. Large organizations like the ones I hustled for had artillery stashed but for day to day issues that stuff didn't need to come out.

One of the groups I worked for ran into an issue and the boss started a stockpiling arms race. Bought all types of machine guns (mac-10s, mini uzis), big shyt I had only seen in the movies like streetsweepers. After all that nothing even popped off, we ended up selling most of it.

Drive-bys existed in NYC. I don't know why everyone thinks that was just an LA thing. They used to pull them in old gangster movies about the Prohibition era, they weren't invented in 80s Compton.

A drive-by tended to be a way to attack a corner indiscriminately, not even necessarily kill someone but let them know it wasn't safe anymore. A lot of the killing in that era was contract killing--someone wanted someone dead for whatever reason and paid a guy to get the job done. That shyt tended to be close range, executing style, pistols.

Did your hood beef with the other side over some dumb shyt that had nothing to do with money or the dope game that resulted in a lot of your homies getting killed and a need for retaliation?

Not really. It was rare to see a whole team go to war with another whole team just over personal bullshyt. At the end of the day we hustled together but we worked for our own pockets. Why would we lay our lives on the line because some other dude is fukking the boss' baby moms? Or some other petty nonsense? People with money and beef would contract the shyt to a professional hitman. We didn't have wars just because.
 

lib123

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Probably about 50%. Keep in mind tens of thousands of people in the early 90s in NYC were involved in drug dealing in one capacity or another. There was a difference between selling crack here and there for extra $$ and rising to a lieutenant or boss in an organization. The higher you went, the more likely you ended up incarcerated or dead.

Makes sense. What about those who were all-in full time (street level on up) like you? 5-10%?

Thanks for doing this. Very insightful.
 
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