Steve Stoute: "The older generation didn't care about lyrics. That's why Illmatic took 5 years to go Gold. G Rap never got rewarded for lyrics"

[Formerly Black Trash]

Cats didn't buy Big L.
They didn't buy Lord Finesse.
They didn't buy Lord Tariq
They didn't buy Jay until he went pop.
They didn't buy Nas until he went pop.
They didn't buy anything with Black Thought.
They didn't buy Hiero, Alkaholiks, Ras Kass, Freestyle Fellowship, Chino XL.
They didn't buy Kurupt.
They didn't buy K-Rino.
They didn't buy Common Sense.

They didn't buy Joe Buddens, lol.

They stopped buying Kane.
They stopped buying Rakim.
They stopped buying KRS.

Chuck D? Kool Keith? LOL

If Pun didn't do the remix of I'm not a Player with Joe - they would not have bought him either.

They didn't buy KMD and sure as hell as not buying MF Doom.

TBH, that's okay.

Hip Hop is a party music, made for partying.

Sitting back and listening to an album, trying to understand what the artist is saying on a deeper level, the artist even trying to make some "art" - is how folks deal with rock music, and anything else that's album oriented.

Steve is in the business of selling the culture - and he's telling you what sells now and what sold then.
Yet cats don't want to a listen to a guy that got rich on selling hip hop, about selling hip hop....

by that logic go Akademiks and DJVlad
They're want the culture wants

 

[Formerly Black Trash]

If yo daughter is thick and cute...tell her not to go to school

Because p*ssy sells...its her destiny

Put her on the stroll

 

[Piff Perkins]

This is an insane statement from a guy who has spent decades saying slick shyt and selling "the culture" to the highest bidder. And in a room of old NY nikkas they let it slide because they worship money so much they think "well he got more money than me so he must be right."

Illmatic got bootlegged to hell, as many have said. It was popular and a lot of people bought it...as a bootleg, in New York. I'd argue a lot of people bought the legit version too, but Illmatic was largely a regional record. It wasn't....Doggystyle, something that was a smash hit everywhere. Illmatic was popping in NY and while everyone has a story of someone (military service members, DJs, cousins, etc) bringing it to their state at some point that doesn't change the facts. It didn't have the radio records like Ready To Die, Doggystyle, etc.

36 Chambers sold 30k first week. Illmatic sold 60k first week. Ready To Die sold 57k first week. But whereas those other albums went gold and plat quickly, Illmatic lagged. It went gold the summer of 1996, plat in 2001 (although it's worth noting that certifications have to be implemented by the record label, it doesn't automatically happen once you hit a certain amount of records sold or shipped). Point is that a lot of lyrical records were selling well at the time...but they had radio records.

 

[WIA20XX]

List the top selling albums of the 90’s ain’t tell me no one cared about lyrics, you right about hiphop being party music but rhymes mattered

You can look through the list yourself.

Some dope mcs, but are any of these records selling on lyrics?
Maybe a few here and there...but the majority?

1990

M.C. HAMMER - Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em : 10x platinum
VANILLA ICE - To The Extreme : 7x platinum
L.L. COOL J - Mama Said Knock You Out : 2x platinum
SALT 'N PEPA - Black's Magic : platinum
PUBLIC ENEMY - Fear Of A Black Planet : platinum
ICE CUBE - Amerikkka's Most Wanted : platinum
DIGITAL UNDERGROUND - Sex Packets : platinum
ICE CUBE - Kill At Will : platinum
TOO SHORT - Short Dog's In The House : platinum
N.W.A. - 100 Miles And Runnin' : platinum

1991
HAMMER - Too Legit To Quit : 3x platinum
CYPRESS HILL - Cypress Hill : 2x platinum
N.W.A. - Efil4zaggin : platinum
NAUGHTY BY NATURE - Naughty By Nature : platinum
DJ JAZZY JEFF & THE FRESH PRINCE - Homebase : platinum
GETO BOYS - We Can't Be Stopped : platinum
ICE CUBE - Death Certificate : platinum
PUBLIC ENEMY - Apocalypse 91... The Enemy Strikes Back : platinum
HEAVY D AND THE BOYZ - Peaceful Journey : platinum
MARKY MARK AND THE FUNKY BUNCH - Music For The People : platinum

1992
DR. DRE - The Chronic : 3x platinum (5 million sold)
KRIS KROSS - Totally Krossed Out : 4x platinum
ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT - 3 Years, 5 Months And 2 Days In The Life Of... : 4x platinum
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE - Rage Against The Machine : 3x platinum
BEASTIE BOYS - Check Your Head : 2x platinum
ICE CUBE - The Predator : 2x platinum
SIR MIX-A-LOT - Mack Daddy : platinum
HOUSE OF PAIN - House Of Pain : platinum
DAS EFX - Dead Serious : platinum
TOO SHORT - Shorty The Pimp : platinum

1993
SNOOP DOGGY DOGG - Doggystyle : 4x platinum (6 million)
SALT 'N PEPA - Very Necessary : 5x platinum
CYPRESS HILL - Black Sunday : 3x platinum
WU-TANG CLAN - Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) : platinum
EAZY-E - It's On (Dr. Dre) 187 Um Killa : platinum
ICE CUBE - Lethal Injection : platinum
2PAC - Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. : platinum
NAUGHTY BY NATURE - 19NaughtyIII : platinum
TOO SHORT - Get In Where You Fit In : platinum
SNOW - 12 Inches Of Snow : platinum

1994
THE NOTORIOUS B.I.G. - Ready To Die : 4x platinum
WARREN G - Regulate... G Funk Era : 3x platinum
BEASTIE BOYS - Ill Communication : 3x platinum
BONE THUGS 'N HARMONY - Creepin' On Ah Come Up : 2x platinum
MURDER WAS THE CASE (soundtrack) : 2x platinum
ABOVE THE RIM (soundtrack) : 2x platinum
OUTKAST - Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik : platinum
METHOD MAN - Tical : platinum
NAS - Illmatic : platinum
SCARFACE - The Diary : platinum

1995
BONE THUGS 'N HARMONY - E. 1999 Eternal : 4x platinum (6 million)
DANGEROUS MINDS (soundtrack) : 3x platinum
2PAC - Me Against The World : 2x platinum
L.L. COOL J - Mr. Smith : 2x platinum
FRIDAY (soundtrack) : 2x platinum
THA DOGG POUND - Dogg Food : 2x platinum
COOLIO - Gangsta's Paradise : 2x platinum
CYPRESS HILL - III (Temple Of Boom) : platinum
THE SHOW (soundtrack) : platinum
TOO SHORT - Cocktails : platinum

1996
2PAC - All Eyez On Me : 4x platinum (6 million)
MAKAVELI - The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory : 4x platinum
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE - Evil Empire : 3x platinum
NAS - It Was Written : 2x platinum
SNOOP DOGGY DOGG - Tha Doggfather : 2x platinum
LIL KIM - Hard Core : 2x platinum
OUTKAST - Atliens : 2x platinum
TOO SHORT - Gettin' It (Album Number Ten) : platinum
FOXY BROWN - Ill Na Na : platinum
DR. DRE PRESENTS... THE AFTERMATH : platinum

1997
WILL SMITH - Big Willie Style : 9x platinum
PUFF DADDY AND THE FAMILY - No Way Out : 7x platinum
THE NOTORIOUS B.I.G. - Life After Death : 5x platinum
MASE - Harlem World : 4x platinum
MASTER P - Ghetto D : 3x platinum
2PAC - R U Still Down ? (Remember Me) : 2x platinum
WU-TANG CLAN - Wu-Tang Forever : 2x platinum
BONE THUGS 'N HARMONY - The Art Of War : 2x platinum
LIMP BIZKIT - Three Dollar Bill, Y'all$ : 2x platinum
INSANE CLOWN POSSE - The Great Milenko : platinum

1998
2PAC - Greatest Hits : 5x platinum
JAY-Z - Vol.2... Hard Knock Life : 5x platinum
DMX - It's Dark And Hell Is Hot : 4x platinum
JUVENILE - 400 Degreez : 4x platinum
BEASTIE BOYS - Hello Nasty : 3x platinum
DMX - Flesh Of My Flesh, Blood Of My Blood : 3x platinum
MASTER P - MP Da Last Don : 2x platinum
OUTKAST - Aquemini : 2x platinum
SNOOP DOGG - Da Game Is To Be Sold, Not To Be Told : 2x platinum

1999
DR. DRE - 2001 : 6x platinum (7 million)
LIMP BIZKIT - Significant Other : 7x platinum
EMINEM - The Slim Shady LP : 4x platinum (6 million)
DMX - ...And Then There Was X : 5x platinum
JAY-Z - Vol.3... Life And Times Of S. Carter : 3x platinum
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE - The Battle Of Los Angeles : 2x platinum
WILL SMITH - Willenium : 2x platinum
RUFF RYDERS - Ryde Or Die, vol. 1 : platinum (2 million)
NAS - I Am... : 2x platinum
EVE - Ruff Ryders' First Lady : 2x platinum

 

[theflyest]

He’s wrong

Steve Stoute is looking at this solely from a NY perspective.

 

[African Peasant]

People that buy hip hop records.

Guys that are lyrical have historically not sold well.

This is obvious to any one who's been a fan of hip hop, played hip hop for other people, worked in the industry, been to/thrown small shows and big concerts.

Lotta rappers that make these top 100 lists are only big to a certain few, and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone with an Envy Caine or a Mr Exquire or an Organized Konfusion CD...

Too big. You need to break it down before giving such statements.

Among people who buy records, you had people who cared about lyrics, people who cared about hip-Hop and people who did not. So how did Nas reach gold?

Once again, that statement needs to be more precise.

Globally taken, it's wrong.

Stoute pushed for that poppish approach to sell records to masses (people who did not care about Hip-Hop like that).

 

[WIA20XX]

by that logic go Akademiks and DJVlad
They're want the culture wants

They give the people what they want.

We only feel some type of way when we realize the people have always wanted junk food.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

The few top guys sold a lot (Death Row acts, Hammer) most of them didn’t sell Gold either

Yeah, the tiers for rap in the mid-90s

Tier 1: Snoop and Bone Thugs (white people and hispanics LOVED Bone Thugs and all that melodic shyt). Also Fugees in '96. Quadruple platinum+, even dorky white people know their shyt
Tier 1.5: Biggie, Pac. This was tough
Tier 2: Ice Cube, LL, Dogg Pound, Wu-Tang as a collective, '96 Nas. Double platinum level
Tier 3: Outkast, Busta, Warren G, AZ, Scarface, A Tribe Called Quest - Platinum artists, but still firmly below the glass ceiling. Their region does a lil bit of lifting, but not as much as tier 4
Tier 4: Redman, Mobb Deep, 94-95 Nas, '96 Jay, Goodie Mob, Too Short, DJ Quik, Spice 1, Kool G Rap, etc...basically all of the acts that were big in their region but not really nationally outside of a hit or 2. Gold
Tier 5/Lords of the Underground: Boot Cam Clik, UGK, DITC, Jeru, Gang Starr, etc.

Edit: Actually might have to

 

[NO-BadAzz]

You can look through the list yourself.

Some dope mcs, but are any of these records selling on lyrics?
Maybe a few here and there...but the majority?

1990

M.C. HAMMER - Please Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em : 10x platinum
VANILLA ICE - To The Extreme : 7x platinum
L.L. COOL J - Mama Said Knock You Out : 2x platinum
SALT 'N PEPA - Black's Magic : platinum
PUBLIC ENEMY - Fear Of A Black Planet : platinum
ICE CUBE - Amerikkka's Most Wanted : platinum
DIGITAL UNDERGROUND - Sex Packets : platinum
ICE CUBE - Kill At Will : platinum
TOO SHORT - Short Dog's In The House : platinum
N.W.A. - 100 Miles And Runnin' : platinum

1991
HAMMER - Too Legit To Quit : 3x platinum
CYPRESS HILL - Cypress Hill : 2x platinum
N.W.A. - Efil4zaggin : platinum
NAUGHTY BY NATURE - Naughty By Nature : platinum
DJ JAZZY JEFF & THE FRESH PRINCE - Homebase : platinum
GETO BOYS - We Can't Be Stopped : platinum
ICE CUBE - Death Certificate : platinum
PUBLIC ENEMY - Apocalypse 91... The Enemy Strikes Back : platinum
HEAVY D AND THE BOYZ - Peaceful Journey : platinum
MARKY MARK AND THE FUNKY BUNCH - Music For The People : platinum

1992
DR. DRE - The Chronic : 3x platinum (5 million sold)
KRIS KROSS - Totally Krossed Out : 4x platinum
ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT - 3 Years, 5 Months And 2 Days In The Life Of... : 4x platinum
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE - Rage Against The Machine : 3x platinum
BEASTIE BOYS - Check Your Head : 2x platinum
ICE CUBE - The Predator : 2x platinum
SIR MIX-A-LOT - Mack Daddy : platinum
HOUSE OF PAIN - House Of Pain : platinum
DAS EFX - Dead Serious : platinum
TOO SHORT - Shorty The Pimp : platinum

1993
SNOOP DOGGY DOGG - Doggystyle : 4x platinum (6 million)
SALT 'N PEPA - Very Necessary : 5x platinum
CYPRESS HILL - Black Sunday : 3x platinum
WU-TANG CLAN - Enter The Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) : platinum
EAZY-E - It's On (Dr. Dre) 187 Um Killa : platinum
ICE CUBE - Lethal Injection : platinum
2PAC - Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. : platinum
NAUGHTY BY NATURE - 19NaughtyIII : platinum
TOO SHORT - Get In Where You Fit In : platinum
SNOW - 12 Inches Of Snow : platinum

1994
THE NOTORIOUS B.I.G. - Ready To Die : 4x platinum
WARREN G - Regulate... G Funk Era : 3x platinum
BEASTIE BOYS - Ill Communication : 3x platinum
BONE THUGS 'N HARMONY - Creepin' On Ah Come Up : 2x platinum
MURDER WAS THE CASE (soundtrack) : 2x platinum
ABOVE THE RIM (soundtrack) : 2x platinum
OUTKAST - Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik : platinum
METHOD MAN - Tical : platinum
NAS - Illmatic : platinum
SCARFACE - The Diary : platinum

1995
BONE THUGS 'N HARMONY - E. 1999 Eternal : 4x platinum (6 million)
DANGEROUS MINDS (soundtrack) : 3x platinum
2PAC - Me Against The World : 2x platinum
L.L. COOL J - Mr. Smith : 2x platinum
FRIDAY (soundtrack) : 2x platinum
THA DOGG POUND - Dogg Food : 2x platinum
COOLIO - Gangsta's Paradise : 2x platinum
CYPRESS HILL - III (Temple Of Boom) : platinum
THE SHOW (soundtrack) : platinum
TOO SHORT - Cocktails : platinum

1996
2PAC - All Eyez On Me : 4x platinum (6 million)
MAKAVELI - The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory : 4x platinum
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE - Evil Empire : 3x platinum
NAS - It Was Written : 2x platinum
SNOOP DOGGY DOGG - Tha Doggfather : 2x platinum
LIL KIM - Hard Core : 2x platinum
OUTKAST - Atliens : 2x platinum
TOO SHORT - Gettin' It (Album Number Ten) : platinum
FOXY BROWN - Ill Na Na : platinum
DR. DRE PRESENTS... THE AFTERMATH : platinum

1997
WILL SMITH - Big Willie Style : 9x platinum
PUFF DADDY AND THE FAMILY - No Way Out : 7x platinum
THE NOTORIOUS B.I.G. - Life After Death : 5x platinum
MASE - Harlem World : 4x platinum
MASTER P - Ghetto D : 3x platinum
2PAC - R U Still Down ? (Remember Me) : 2x platinum
WU-TANG CLAN - Wu-Tang Forever : 2x platinum
BONE THUGS 'N HARMONY - The Art Of War : 2x platinum
LIMP BIZKIT - Three Dollar Bill, Y'all$ : 2x platinum
INSANE CLOWN POSSE - The Great Milenko : platinum

1998
2PAC - Greatest Hits : 5x platinum
JAY-Z - Vol.2... Hard Knock Life : 5x platinum
DMX - It's Dark And Hell Is Hot : 4x platinum
JUVENILE - 400 Degreez : 4x platinum
BEASTIE BOYS - Hello Nasty : 3x platinum
DMX - Flesh Of My Flesh, Blood Of My Blood : 3x platinum
MASTER P - MP Da Last Don : 2x platinum
OUTKAST - Aquemini : 2x platinum
SNOOP DOGG - Da Game Is To Be Sold, Not To Be Told : 2x platinum

1999
DR. DRE - 2001 : 6x platinum (7 million)
LIMP BIZKIT - Significant Other : 7x platinum
EMINEM - The Slim Shady LP : 4x platinum (6 million)
DMX - ...And Then There Was X : 5x platinum
JAY-Z - Vol.3... Life And Times Of S. Carter : 3x platinum
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE - The Battle Of Los Angeles : 2x platinum
WILL SMITH - Willenium : 2x platinum
RUFF RYDERS - Ryde Or Die, vol. 1 : platinum (2 million)
NAS - I Am... : 2x platinum
EVE - Ruff Ryders' First Lady : 2x platinum

Dayum Above the Rim soundtrack outsold Nas

 

[WIA20XX]

Too big. You need to break it down before giving such statements.

Among people who buy records, you had people who cared about lyrics, people who cared about hip-Hop and people who did not. So how did Nas reach gold?

Once again, that statement needs to be more precise.

Globally taken, it's wrong.

Stoute pushed for that poppish approach to sell records to masses (people who did not care about Hip-Hop like that).

Stoute is saying the market for "people who care about hip hop" (whatever that means) is small.

Most people that buy hip hop music aren't buying stuff based on "lyrics".

They didn't support all the lyrical messiahs and word smiths that have been pumped to them for the past 30-35 years.

That's not a hard thing to understand imo.

 

[Formerly Black Trash]

They give the people what they want.

We only feel some type of way when we realize the people have always wanted junk food.

If all you care about is sales then you're the worst type of person
And you don't care about Black culture
And I better not ever see you complain about rappers pushing death and violence and death on the youth

 

[mag357]

This just dumb...
nikkaz always cared about being original and lyrics.

But obviously a hot song or commercial music will always sell better.

Da fck we even talking about in here

 

[spliz]

Stoute is a dumbass for this statement.

 

[WIA20XX]

If all you care about is sales then you're the worst type of person
And you don't care about Black culture
And I better not ever see you complain about rappers pushing death and violence and death on the youth

You can attack Steve (or me, seems like you're all hot under the collar) all you want.

But he's telling you the truth.

The people didn't want Nas, they wanted Biggie.
They didn't want Ras Kass, they wanted Snoop.

Anytime some little gangsta thugged out group comes out of your neighborhood, and not some retread of the Black Panthers - you should ask yourself why?

 

[LuuqMaan]

After the VMA's my baby mama cussed my ass out
I kicked her ass, we back kissing like Puffy and Steve Stoute

What was 50 trying to tell us