(spoiler)GoT fans, you know what’s crazy about the books?

[Swahili P'Bitek]

It's easy to miss the prophecies, but the blunder after blunder that Robb was making prior to the events of the red wedding made me know he was going to die.Small mistakes by major characters had been punished severely till then.

 

[Biscayne]

You forgot Dany's vision of it, from the second book. During the House Of The Undying.

"Farther on she came upon a feast of corpses. Savagely slaughtered, the feasters lay strewn across overturned chairs and hacked trestle tables, asprawl in pools of congealing blood. Some had lost limbs, even heads. Savaged limbs clutched bloody cups, wooden spoons, roast fowl, heels of bread. On a throne above them sat a dead man with the head of a wolf. He wore an iron crown and held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a sceptre, and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal."

Yes!!! Dany also has a vision of the Red Wedding!! I forgot to mention this one. Damn, it’s crazy how many characters have prophetic visions about the fate of House Stark. Even Dany, thousands of miles away in the East in Essos, and has never been to Westeros has a prophetic vision in Quarth.

 

[Biscayne]

It's easy to miss the prophecies, but the blunder after blunder that Robb was making prior to the events of the red wedding made me know he was going to die.Small mistakes by major characters had been punished severely till then.

In the show, when you’re stark set, you’re just mad at the Frey’s with no sort of real context to the consequences of breaking of betrothels. But the books really drive home how STUPID the Starks and The Tully’s played the “Game Of Thrones”. Rob won battles but kept slipping during the war. The books drive home how much of a boy he still is. Marrying Jeyne Westerling while he was bethrothed to one of Lord Frey’s daughters, shows just how immature he is. His mom warned him over and over about Lord Frey’s sensitivity from being spurned by so many other Old Houses and Older Highborn families via his daughters getting rejected. And yet Rob loses his virginity to Jeyen and feels the need to break his betrothel off, because of “honor”. Rob still the boy. GRRM did a good job of showing this. The red wedding was inevitable after that disrespect he showed to the Frey’s. Throughout the history of Westeros, many wars and battles were fought behind broken betrothels.

 

[Biscayne]

I have a ton of stuff to read as it is, but would you brehs recommend reading the books to someone who has already seen the series? I guess as all adaptations they left tons of stuff out, just as this thread is about.

As others have said, the books are waaaaaay deeper and more intricate. And waaaaaay longer. It’s a good read. But a slow read, in a good way.

 

[Biscayne]

See, what we're not gonna do is get me passionate about Game of Thrones, again
That fat motherfukker ain't finishing this series and I just came to grips with that. Don't be out here making compelling threads that make me want to read the books again. I'm not negging you this time, but I swear to the Old Gods and the New....I just want Winds of Winter, brehs

I didn’t start reading the books until this year, after being introduced to the books via the show. Right now I’m just enjoying the audiobooks. I blazed through GoT and ACoK(pause) and now I’m almost through ASOS. I’m gonna purchase AFFC and ADWD. I can’t wait!!! I know GRRM won’t release TWOW by the time I finish the next two, because I finish them so quickly.

 

[CROM]

I have a ton of stuff to read as it is, but would you brehs recommend reading the books to someone who has already seen the series? I guess as all adaptations they left tons of stuff out, just as this thread is about.

The books are 5X deeper than the series if that means anything to you. Deeper characterization, deeper lore, everything is just much richer.


I’m not shytting on the show. The first 6 seasons are classic television, but reading the books is like night & day

Totally agree. The books actually lay out Varys’ motivations, make Dorne relevant, gives you a different look at Arya’s Faceless Men training, show Jon Snow as a capable and smart leader, shows just how ahead of everyone Littlefinger is, and so much more. There’s so much that the show left out that it’s truly a travesty. The books are well worth the read...even if the series won’t ever be finished...

 

[Piff Perkins]

I'm not re-reading until there's a TWOW release date. But I sometimes pick up the books and read random segments. I first read the books back in 2004 or so. Seeing the show debut and finish during a time period where only one book came out...shyt is just pathetic lol. But it is what it is.

The thing that bothers me tho...damn near a third of TWOW is going to cover stuff that should have happened in Dance. Don't get me read, I greatly enjoyed the book. But it builds up to a titanic conclusion that isn't shown - the Winterfell battle. If Winds had come out a year or two later this wouldn't be a major sticking point, but it's been almost a decade and we're waiting on a resolution that was already completed when Dance came out. Martin's editor has said he wanted to add the battle, but there was no room and they didn't want to edit out other parts of the book. That's where not having an outline fukks you, brehs. You gotta know when to stop, how much room is left, etc. That battle should have been in the book.

Hell, the Mereen battle is built up to as well yet doesn't happen. Frustrating.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

In the show, when you’re stark set, you’re just mad at the Frey’s with no sort of real context to the consequences of breaking of betrothels. But the books really drive home how STUPID the Starks and The Tully’s played the “Game Of Thrones”. Rob won battles but kept slipping during the war. The books drive home how much of a boy he still is. Marrying Jeyne Westerling while he was bethrothed to one of Lord Frey’s daughters, shows just how immature he is. His mom warned him over and over about Lord Frey’s sensitivity from being spurned by so many other Old Houses and Older Highborn families via his daughters getting rejected. And yet Rob loses his virginity to Jeyen and feels the need to break his betrothel off, because of “honor”. Rob still the boy. GRRM did a good job of showing this. The red wedding was inevitable after that disrespect he showed to the Frey’s. Throughout the history of Westeros, many wars and battles were fought behind broken betrothels.

All true, but to be fair -the books also focus more on how lonely Robb feels without having his dad/Jon around. Knowing he hasn't done anything yet to save his sisters. Knowing his mom betrayed him in releasing Jaime. And THEN finding out Theon sacked Winterfell and "killed" his little brothers.

Jeyne is the only one who saw this and consoled him, and didn't treat him like a pawn in the game of thrones. Even his mom ignored her instincts to treat him like the boy he is, and kept trying to make him into his father (for show watchers, in the books we only mainly see Robb through Cat's perspective).

So he didn't just fukk Jeyne and marry out of honor,he loved that girl AND believed she was pregnant. His best friend in the world was/is Jon and he knows first hand how much it hurt Jon to be a b*stard. (And Jon, just like Jeyne,is the only person who treats Robb like a normal boy instead of the heir...the Jon/Jeyne naming similarity isn't a coincidence I think).

Also don't forget not long after he not only talks about legitimizing Jon, but he probably set something in motion ( we know he wrote and sent out a letter) to make it happen.

Not excusing him, but the Jeyne move went deep for him. For her too, we later find out she had no idea about the RW and really loved Robb (for show watchers, Jeyne wasn't at the RW and is still alive in the books...in fact I think she might still play an important part in the game).

LOWKEY the show changing Jeyne to a different person highlighted that they didn't fully grasps what George RR was going for, and George has said that he felt this would come back to bite them in the ass - but he was OK with it because he had a hard on for the actress.

Edit: final thing I'll mention is the show has people fukked up on how old these kids are. Robb is like 16 when he gets killed at the RW, so it's not even insulting to call him a boy - he literally was one.

 

[Take It In Blood]

The books are hard to follow because there's too many names in text form and it's easier to remember faces than a text name tag

 

[MidniteJay]

The books are hard to follow because there's too many names in text form and it's easier to remember faces than a text name tag

There's a lot names in GOT no doubt but for me they were easy to remember and I think it's because they aren't too fantasy in the naming scheme. Go read Malazan and come back to me

In the show, when you’re stark set, you’re just mad at the Frey’s with no sort of real context to the consequences of breaking of betrothels. But the books really drive home how STUPID the Starks and The Tully’s played the “Game Of Thrones”. Rob won battles but kept slipping during the war. The books drive home how much of a boy he still is. Marrying Jeyne Westerling while he was bethrothed to one of Lord Frey’s daughters, shows just how immature he is. His mom warned him over and over about Lord Frey’s sensitivity from being spurned by so many other Old Houses and Older Highborn families via his daughters getting rejected. And yet Rob loses his virginity to Jeyen and feels the need to break his betrothel off, because of “honor”. Rob still the boy. GRRM did a good job of showing this. The red wedding was inevitable after that disrespect he showed to the Frey’s. Throughout the history of Westeros, many wars and battles were fought behind broken betrothels.

I lowkey started disliking Robb when he and Blackfish shytted on Edmure for ruining the trap he had set for Tywin. Whole Lannister set would have been destroyed if he took the time to explain to Edmure why he should stay put but Robb shyts on him for trying to protect his people and strong arms him into marrying a Frey.

 

[Biscayne]

All true, but to be fair -the books also focus more on how lonely Robb feels without having his dad/Jon around. Knowing he hasn't done anything yet to save his sisters. Knowing his mom betrayed him in releasing Jaime. And THEN finding out Theon sacked Winterfell and "killed" his little brothers.

Jeyne is the only one who saw this and consoled him, and didn't treat him like a pawn in the game of thrones. Even his mom ignored her instincts to treat him like the boy he is, and kept trying to make him into his father (for show watchers, in the books we only mainly see Robb through Cat's perspective).

So he didn't just fukk Jeyne and marry out of honor,he loved that girl AND believed she was pregnant. His best friend in the world was/is Jon and he knows first hand how much it hurt Jon to be a b*stard. (And Jon, just like Jeyne,is the only person who treats Robb like a normal boy instead of the heir...the Jon/Jeyne naming similarity isn't a coincidence I think).

Also don't forget not long after he not only talks about legitimizing Jon, but he probably set something in motion ( we know he wrote and sent out a letter) to make it happen.

Not excusing him, but the Jeyne move went deep for him. For her too, we later find out she had no idea about the RW and really loved Robb (for show watchers, Jeyne wasn't at the RW and is still alive in the books...in fact I think she might still play an important part in the game).

LOWKEY the show changing Jeyne to a different person highlighted that they didn't fully grasps what George RR was going for, and George has said that he felt this would come back to bite them in the ass - but he was OK with it because he had a hard on for the actress.

Edit: final thing I'll mention is the show has people fukked up on how old these kids are. Robb is like 16 when he gets killed at the RW, so it's not even insulting to call him a boy - he literally was one.

Rob should’ve dishonoured Jeyen and created a b*stard. I’m sorry. He should’ve gone through with that Frey betrothel. You just don’t break those kinds of promises and try to amend them with sending Edmure as a spouse, when Lord Frey expected his daughter to marry a king. Even in Westeros history, touching stories like Prince Duncan The Small choosing Jenny Of Oldstones over the daughter of the Storm lord he was betrothed to, caused great strife in the kingdoms. Robb should’ve been counciled. He chose a small poorer house in House Westerling over The Frey’s. He could’ve consolidated his power in The North with the might of The Riverlands even more than the Tully/Stark alliance did when Catelyn was betrothed to Brandon and later Eddard. Now Jeyen has to suffer being involved in a plot she had no idea she was involved in and loses her husband. Nobody came out of this winning. Even if Rob is avenged. Catelyn over stepped her boundaries as well, by freeing the King Slayer and losing the Karstarks. She needed to know her place in this monarchy. Provide wise council for your son, but don’t overstep your boundaries. EVEN THEN, at least cat did what she did with her daughters in mind. Robb basically fell into some p*ssy, fell in love, and broke up a strong alliance and ruffled feathers. The Frey’s had to go up against some of their own in Robbs name. Remember Genna Lannister was married and had children with a Frey. So the Frey’s sacrificed for the Starks.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

Of course Robb shouldn't have betrayed the Freys, he made a giant mistake and paid for it

I just think it's weird how the 16 year old boy has the rep of the King that made a mistake even though all of them, including Ned, fukked up grossly somewhere along the line.

Ned telling Cersei what he was about to do

Renly making the claim over Stannis

Stannis getting involved with dark magic

Robert letting the Lannisters run his Kingdom

Cersei letting the faith militant run her kingdom

Robb breaking a promise was fukked up, but relative to the other way more experienced (even Renly) competitors his fukkup never really stood out to me. The price he and his army paid for it makes it looks worse than everyone else's.

 

[MidniteJay]

Of course Robb shouldn't have betrayed the Freys, he made a giant mistake and paid for it

I just think it's weird how the 16 year old boy has the rep of the King that made a mistake even though all of them, including Ned, fukked up grossly somewhere along the line.

Ned telling Cersei what he was about to do

Renly making the claim over Stannis

Stannis getting involved with dark magic

Robert letting the Lannisters run his Kingdom

Cersei letting the faith militant run her kingdom

Robb breaking a promise was fukked up, but relative to the other way more experienced (even Renly) competitors his fukkup never really stood out to me. The price he and his army paid for it makes it looks worse than everyone else's.

Ned telling Cersei his plans might be the worst decision in the whole series. After Robert got fukked up dude had no friends in KL even Jaime ran up on him before that. I know fans of the series don't like Renly but he was Ned's trump card out of all of the fukkery. It would have taken Tywin out of play and if he had a problem Dorne would have came for that ass and Robb gets saved from his own dumb mistakes. Only real threat would have been Stannis and Varys' scheming.

 

[Biscayne]

Of course Robb shouldn't have betrayed the Freys, he made a giant mistake and paid for it

I just think it's weird how the 16 year old boy has the rep of the King that made a mistake even though all of them, including Ned, fukked up grossly somewhere along the line.

Ned telling Cersei what he was about to do

Renly making the claim over Stannis

Stannis getting involved with dark magic

Robert letting the Lannisters run his Kingdom

Cersei letting the faith militant run her kingdom

Robb breaking a promise was fukked up, but relative to the other way more experienced (even Renly) competitors his fukkup never really stood out to me. The price he and his army paid for it makes it looks worse than everyone else's.

Most of the adult Starks, Tully’s and some Lannister’s were dumbasses. Very true. All of those adults screw ups were way worse, true. Which brings me to Sansa and why ppl seem to hate her. I never understood the Sansa hatred. The show didn’t drive home how much of a child she was. She was even younger than Rob, and yet she gets all this hatred in the fandom for basically being a 12yr old girl who was groomed to be a lady of the Southern/Andal culture kingdoms. Even though she was born and raised in the North, she was completely groomed by her mother’s religion(The Faith) rather than the Old Gods. Nor was Sansa given the leeway and freedom that Arya was given. The fandom(especially the show fandom) took sides as of Sansa was the screw up and Arya was the good sister. When in fact, they both had tragic stories. The books drives home Sansas borderline Stockholm syndrome and grooming better than the show does. Rob doesn’t get as much hatred for his Screw ups, relative to Sansa who is seen as the bougie sister who screwed up everything for Neds plans. When in fact it was Neds dumbass who couldn’t play the Game Of Thrones