Saudi Arabia and Iran Re-Establish Ties

papa pimp

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nah, you didn't read what I said.

I'm saying that sunni/shia shyt ain't what you think it is when they' link up against the USA

:what:

I didn't say anything about the USA. All of these Saudi pivots goes with MBS and are born out of his hatred for the current administration not some diplomatic feat that is going to change the course of Middle Eastern diplomacy longterm lol. He is an obvious thorn in the side of Biden but this too shall pass.
 

Json

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China's learning the importance of soft power and play that game...:wow:

US should stop selling weapons to them. Let them rock out with China's J-20's,

I don't understand this empowering your adversaries game the US has played for far too long. Yeah, trade with them...but letting them get to point where they can be more than a nuisance is beyond me.
China about to learn what a headache these regimes are when you are trying to broker peace.

America had some wins with Palestinians and Israel until they reverted right back to what they were doing before.

I hope this is genuine but something tells me Iran proxies ain’t going to just follow them to the peace table.
 

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China about to learn what a headache these regimes are when you are trying to broker peace.

America had some wins with Palestinians and Israel until they reverted right back to what they were doing before.

I hope this is genuine but something tells me Iran proxies ain’t going to just follow them to the peace table.
Iran is tooling up tho...and Israel aint gonna like that
 

Wargames

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im having a hard time disagreeing with this take :skip: even if it was inevitable, biden has to throw this one in the L column

I don’t trust a single motherfukker in this picture to make this work.


160802-50-Cent-The-Game-827x620.jpg


Vibes
 

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Chinese-Brokered Deal Upends Mideast Diplomacy and Challenges U.S.
The agreement negotiated in Beijing to restore relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran signaled at least a temporary reordering of the usual alliances and rivalries, with Washington left on the sidelines.

March 11, 2023Updated 10:08 a.m. ET
A Chinese official stands between two representatives from Iran and Saudi Arabia, who are shaking hands. Flags of the officials’ countries appear behind them.
A photograph released by Chinese state media showing officials Wang Yi, center, China’s top foreign policy official, with Ali Shamkhani, right, the secretary of Iran’s security council, and Musaad bin Mohammed Al Aiban, Saudi Arabia’s minister of state, in Beijing, on Friday.China Daily, via Reuters
WASHINGTON — Finally, there is a peace deal of sorts in the Middle East. Not between Israel and the Arabs, but between Saudi Arabia and Iran, which have been at each other’s throats for decades. And brokered not by the United States but by China.

This is among the topsiest and turviest of developments anyone could have imagined, a shift that left heads spinning in capitals around the globe. Alliances and rivalries that have governed diplomacy for generations have, for the moment at least, been upended.

The Americans, who have been the central actors in the Middle East for the past three-quarters of a century, almost always the ones in the room where it happened, now find themselves on the sidelines during a moment of significant change. The Chinese, who for years played only a secondary role in the region, have suddenly transformed themselves into the new power player. And the Israelis, who have been courting the Saudis against their mutual adversaries in Tehran, now wonder where it leaves them.

“There is no way around it — this is a big deal,” said Amy Hawthorne, deputy director for research at the Project on Middle East Democracy, a nonprofit group in Washington. “Yes, the United States could not have brokered such a deal right now with Iran specifically, since we have no relations. But in a larger sense, China’s prestigious accomplishment vaults it into a new league diplomatically and outshines anything the U.S. has been able to achieve in the region since Biden came to office.”

President Biden’s White House has publicly welcomed the re-establishment of diplomatic relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran and expressed no overt concern about Beijing’s part in bringing the two back together. Privately, Mr. Biden’s aides suggested too much was being made of the breakthrough, scoffing at suggestions that it indicated any erosion in American influence in the region.

And it remained unclear, independent analysts said, how far the rapprochement between Saudi Arabia and Iran would actually go.
After decades of sometimes violent competition for leadership in the Middle East and the broader Islamic world, the decision to reopen embassies that were closed in 2016 represents only a first step.

It does not mean that the Sunnis of Riyadh and the Shiites of Tehran have put aside all of their deep and visceral differences. Indeed, it is conceivable that this new agreement to exchange ambassadors may not even be carried out in the end, given that it was put on a cautious two-month timetable to work out details.

The key to the agreement, according to what the Saudis told the Americans, was a commitment by Iran to stop further attacks on Saudi Arabia and curtail support for militant groups that have targeted the kingdom. Iran and Saudi Arabia have effectively fought a devastating proxy war in Yemen, where Houthi rebels aligned with Tehran battled Saudi forces for eight years. A truce negotiated with the support of the United Nations and the Biden administration last year largely halted hostilities.

The U.N. estimated early last year that more than 377,000 people had died during the war from violence, starvation or disease. At the same time, the Houthis have fired hundreds of missiles and armed drones at Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia had sought a suspension of hostilities with Iran for years, first through talks held in Baghdad that eventually went nowhere. Biden administration officials said the Saudis briefed them about the discussions in Beijing, but the Americans expressed skepticism that Iran will live up to its new commitments.

Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the de facto leader of Saudi Arabia who had strong ties with President Donald J. Trump and has helped secure $2 billion in financing for the investment firm set up by Jared Kushner, the former president’s son-in-law, has been playing an intricate diplomatic game since Mr. Biden came to office.

Mr. Biden once vowed to make Saudi Arabia a “pariah” state for orchestrating the assassination of Jamal Khashoggi, a Saudi columnist for The Washington Post living in the United States. But he reluctantly agreed to visit the kingdom last year as he was seeking to lower gas prices that had been elevated in part by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

In trying to smooth over relations with the Saudis, Mr. Biden endured blistering criticism for a much-publicized fist bump with the crown prince, who was determined by the C.I.A. to be responsible for Mr. Khashoggi’s murder and dismemberment.

But Mr. Biden and his team were infuriated when, in their view, the Saudis later breached the unannounced agreement reached during that visit and curbed oil production last fall to keep the price of gas elevated. In that instance, the U.S. officials believed Prince Mohammed was siding with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, and Mr. Biden threatened unspecified “consequences,” only to back off without imposing any.

Now the crown prince is turning to the Chinese. “Some folks in the gulf clearly see this as the Chinese century,” said Steven A. Cook, a senior fellow for Middle East studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. “The Saudis have expressed interest in joining the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and a good deal of their oil goes to China.”


Mr. Cook compared the gambit by Prince Mohammed, known by his initials M.B.S., to the approach of President Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt, who during the Cold War tried to play the United States and Soviet Union off each other. “It actually did not work out as well as Nasser hoped,” Mr. Cook said. “It could backfire on M.B.S.”

Daniel C. Kurtzer, a former ambassador to Israel and Egypt now at Princeton University, said the shifting dynamics represented by the Chinese-brokered pact still pose a challenge to the Biden administration when it would prefer to focus elsewhere.

“It’s a sign of Chinese agility to take advantage of some anger directed at the United States by Saudi Arabia and a little bit of a vacuum there,” he said. “And it’s a reflection of the fact that the Saudis and Iranians have been talking for some time. And it’s an unfortunate indictment of U.S. policy.”

China brought Saudi Arabia together with Iran at a time when Israel has hoped that the United States would bring it together with Saudi Arabia. Having established diplomatic relations with other Gulf States, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, during the latter days of the Trump administration in what were called the Abraham Accords, Israel anxiously wants to do so with Saudi Arabia as well. Such a move would mark a fundamental change in Israel’s status in its long-hostile neighborhood, effectively the end of generations of isolation by the Arab world.

But the Saudis have requested more than Washington is ready to give. In exchange for opening formal ties with Israel, the Saudis have asked the United States for security guarantees, help developing a civilian nuclear program and fewer restrictions on U.S. arms sales.

Administration officials consider the requests excessive but see them as an opening bid that could down the road lead to normalization. In the meantime, the Biden team has helped make progress between the two nations, such as opening Saudi airspace to all Israeli civilian airplanes.

While its diplomatic efforts helped calm hostilities in Yemen, the Biden administration has failed to revive a nuclear agreement with Iran negotiated in 2015 by President Barack Obama and later abandoned by Mr. Trump. Two years of diplomacy have stalled and the U.N. watchdog agency says Iran now has enough highly enriched uranium to build several nuclear weapons if it chooses to, although it has not perfected a warhead yet.

Hampered by American sanctions, Iran has moved to deepen its relations with Russia and now China. Tehran has provided badly needed drones for Russia to use in its war in Ukraine, making it a more critical partner for Mr. Putin’s Moscow than ever before.

In turning to Beijing to mediate with the Saudis, Iran is elevating China in the region and seeking to escape the isolation imposed by Washington. And Israel finds its hopes for an anti-Iranian coalition with Saudi Arabia evidently dashed.


Biden administration officials say Iran is under real pressure and suffering from deep economic distress because of American sanctions. But that does not mean China, one of the signatories to the original nuclear deal, wants Iran to have a nuclear weapon either. If Beijing has new sway in Tehran, American officials hope perhaps it could use it to curb Iran’s nuclear ambitions.

Nonetheless, it is disconcerting for many veteran American policymakers to see China playing such an outsize role in a region after years of making inroads.

“This is the latest reminder that the competition is on a global stage,” said Mara Rudman, executive vice president for policy at the Center for American Progress and a former Middle East envoy under Mr. Obama. “It is by no means limited to the Indo-Pacific, just as it is not limited to solely to economics, or security, or diplomatic engagement.”

The United States still holds key cards in the Middle East, with extensive trade, military and intelligence ties to most of the critical players in the region. After the end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union, America was essentially the only important outside actor in the area. But Russia returned in force in 2015 when it sent military units to rescue the embattled regime of President Bashar al-Assad in Syria’s civil war.

China has been seeking military bases of its own in the region as it pursues energy resources and influence beyond Asia. The decision to involve itself in the Saudi-Iranian rift makes clear that there is another player to be reckoned with.

“I think it reflects the way U.S. partners have leaned into their growing ties with China,” said Mr. Kurtzer. “Is it a direct threat to the United States? That is debatable. But the regional order is changing.”
 

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im having a hard time disagreeing with this take :skip: even if it was inevitable, biden has to throw this one in the L column

Erickson is a piece of shyt not worthy of a single positive word.

But the article is correct.

Plus, I wouldn't say Biden gave China a foothold...they took it.
 

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China Plans New Middle East Summit as Diplomatic Role Takes Shape - WSJ​

Updated March 12, 2023 at 1:31 pm ET
The U.S. Strategy to Catch Up on China’s Global Push for Influence
The U.S. Strategy to Catch Up on China’s Global Push for Influence

The U.S. Strategy to Catch Up on China’s Global Push for Influence
The U.S. wants to counter China’s influence around the world by providing everything from infrastructure to vaccines and green energy. WSJ’s Stu Woo explains how the plan, dubbed Build Back Better World, aims to compete with China’s Belt and Road Initiative. Photo composite: Daniel Orton
Mr. Xi’s diplomatic initiative shows that Beijing sees a central role for itself as a new power broker in the Middle East, a strategic region where the U.S. has been the most influential outside player for decades. No longer focused exclusively on energy and trade flows, China’s foray into the region’s politics signals a new chapter in competition between Beijing and Washington.

The Saudi-Iran deal, hashed out behind closed doors in Beijing last week, takes on some of the most sensitive issues between two countries that have been on opposite sides of proxy conflicts across the Middle East for years.

im-741326
Xi Jinping with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, in December, when Arab leaders met with the Chinese leader.Photo: Saudi Press Agency/Associated Press
im-741327
Xi Jinping and Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi met at the Great Hall of the People in Beijing last month. Photo: Pang Xinglei/XINHUA/Associated Press
Saudi Arabia agreed to tone down critical coverage of Iran by Iran International, a Farsi-language satellite news channel funded by Saudi business people, officials from the two countries said. Tehran has accused Iran International of instigating a monthslong protest movement. The head of Iran’s intelligence agency has called it a terrorist organization.


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Iran International says it is independent. “Iran-Saudi relations have never been a factor influencing our reporting or editorial guidelines: there is no change to these,” said a spokesman for Volant Media, the channel’s owner.

According to Saudi, Iranian and U.S. officials, Iran agreed to stop encouraging cross-border attacks on Saudi Arabia from Yemen by Iranian-backed Houthi rebels, who took over swaths of the country and have been fighting against a military coalition led by Saudi Arabia since 2015.

A truce has held for almost a year, and the Houthis and the Saudis have been engaged in direct talks for months aimed at ending the war, also a top Biden administration goal.

The foreign ministries of China, Iran and Saudi Arabia didn’t respond to requests for comment.

The deal allows Chinese leaders to “advance perceptions of their own global role, and they undermine the U.S. contention that a U.S.-led rules based order is the only responsible choice governments can make, and the only way to advance security,” said Jon Alterman, a Mideast expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies think tank.


im-741333
A Houthi protest against the U.S. and Saudi Arabia in Sana’a, Yemen, last year. Photo: yahya arhab/Shutterstock
Reopening embassies and renewing diplomatic relations isn’t likely to immediately lessen the longstanding security tensions that have divided Riyadh and Tehran for decades and fueled their competition for regional dominance.

Some Western and Iranian analysts say the deal won’t be sustainable without the blessing of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the hard-line faction that has made armed influence in the Middle East a cornerstone of its policy. The IRGC hasn’t weighed in publicly on the deal.

There have been several aborted attempts to patch up relations since the two countries cut ties in 2016 after the Saudi embassy in Tehran was overrun amid protests over the execution of a prominent Shiite cleric by the Saudi government.

This time, U.S. and Saudi officials said, Iran was motivated to strike a deal as a currency crisis grips the country, roiling an economy already battered by U.S. sanctions over its nuclear program and the aftermath of months of protests against the clerical regime’s rule.
 

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The rapidly deteriorating economy has threatened the country’s celebrations of the Persian New Year, Nowruz, on March 21. But the Iranian currency, the rial, rose more than 10% to 450,000 rials to the U.S. dollar on Saturday following Friday’s agreement to restore diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia.

Iranian officials say they expect economic benefits from a rapprochement with Saudi Arabia at a time of extreme political and financial isolation.

im-741340
Iran’s deteriorating economy has threatened celebrations of the Persian New Year.Photo: abedin taherkenareh/Shutterstock
The Islamic Republic has launched a military alliance with Russia, but Moscow has proved to be of little immediate help economically. Russia’s use of Iran’s drones to attack Ukraine, and Tehran’s brutal crackdown on protesters last year, have diminished hopes of reviving a deal to lift U.S. sanctions in exchange for limits on Iran’s nuclear program.

The deal with Saudi Arabia is “a tactical move by Iran, under immense international isolation and internal economic near-collapse,” said Mostafa Pakzad, an Iranian adviser to foreign companies operating in his country.

China is the biggest importer of Iranian oil and has significant economic leverage there. Before Friday’s announcement, China allowed Iran to tap parts of funds in Chinese banks—which total $20 billion—that were frozen when the U.S. left the nuclear deal and reimposed sanctions in 2018, Iran’s Mehr semiofficial news agency reported.

At the December gathering at a regal convention center in Riyadh, leaders from the six-country Gulf Cooperation Council welcomed Mr. Xi’s proposal to hold a summit and lessen tension with Iran.

Saudi officials are hopeful that China can use its economic ties to influence Iran’s behavior, something the U.S. has struggled to achieve through sanctions, negotiations or threat of military action. But they and other Gulf Arab officials have expressed skepticism in private that China, whose activities in the Middle East have mostly been limited to deepening economic ties, would succeed in navigating one of the thorniest rivalries in the world.

A few days after the Riyadh summit, the people familiar with the talks said, Chinese officials shared their plans with Iran, where officials were upset about Beijing signing on to a joint statement in Riyadh that advocated for Iran to give up possession of disputed Gulf islands. Iran said it would move ahead with China-brokered talks with Riyadh if Beijing toned down the language it used in the statement, the people said.


By late January, Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Faisal bin Farhan said in Davos, Switzerland, that Riyadh has “reached out [to Iran] and we are trying to find a path to dialogue.” He didn’t mention China’s role in the talks.

Then Iran dispatched its top nuclear negotiator, Ali Bagheri Kani, to Beijing to hash out the details. He demanded that China play a bigger role in Tehran’s nuclear talks with world powers, provide investments and support for Iran’s struggling currency, according to Gulf officials. In exchange, Iran agreed not to set any preconditions on entering talks with Saudi Arabia to restore relations.

im-741342
A newspaper in Tehran reported on the restoration of ties between Iran and Saudi Arabia.Photo: atta kenare/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
The restoration of ties finally came together last week in secret talks in Beijing, where in a sign of China’s growing influence, all parties agreed not to use English in the negotiations, with speeches and documents conducted in Arabic, Farsi or Mandarin, according to people familiar with the talks.

Ali Shamkhani, a former defense minister who has chaired Iran’s national security council, represented Tehran, signaling support from Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. The Saudis sent their national security adviser Mosaid al-Aiban, a Harvard-educated lawyer who has had the trust of successive Saudi kings and handled some of the kingdom’s most sensitive issues over the past quarter century.

The agreement gives Saudi Arabia and Iran two months to hammer out details before reopening embassies. The Saudi and Iranian foreign ministers are supposed to then meet to seal the deal. The GCC summit with Iran in China would then take place sometime after that, said the people

China’s diplomacy built on years of efforts by Iraq to mediate between the Iranians and Saudis.

After drone and missile attacks on Saudi oil sites in 2019 that Riyadh and Washington blamed on Iran, the Saudis sent Iran a request to de-escalate via then-Iraqi Prime Minister Adel Abdul Mahdi, Iranian and Iraqi diplomats said. Gen. Qassem Soleimani, Iran’s powerful military commander, traveled to Baghdad in January 2020 to receive the message but was killed in a U.S. drone strike before meeting Mr. Abdul Mahdi, said the Iranian and Iraqi diplomats said.

In 2021, Iran and Saudi Arabia came close to re-establishing ties after months of mediation by Baghdad. Then, the Saudis felt they had extracted an acknowledgment from Iran that it had overstepped in 2016 by permitting mob attacks on the Saudi embassy, according to people familiar with the talks. The two sides sent technical delegations to study reopening embassies, but progress halted after elections changed the Iraqi government and protests erupted in Iran last year.

Write to Summer Said at summer.said@wsj.com, Stephen Kalin at stephen.kalin@wsj.com and Benoit Faucon at benoit.faucon@wsj.com
 

Spidey Man

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:banderas: addressing these awful gas prices

the squad can eat a dikk. what are they gonna do, vote for desantis? :mjlol:


We need to reopen and start building new nuclear plants. 3 mile island was the worst disaster in this country and nobody died. Fukushima was extremely safe before it got hit by a hurricane and a typhoon. The technology is pretty safe assuming you don't get hit by a disaster movie.

Between nuclear, solar, wind and tidal/hydro we can eliminate the need for fossil fuels in a reasonable amount of time
 

ORDER_66

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We need to reopen and start building new nuclear plants. 3 mile island was the worst disaster in this country and nobody died. Fukushima was extremely safe before it got hit by a hurricane and a typhoon. The technology is pretty safe assuming you don't get hit by a disaster movie.

Between nuclear, solar, wind and tidal/hydro we can eliminate the need for fossil fuels in a reasonable amount of time

nah we need something more powerful and better than nuclear...its time...:francis:
 
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