Marlow Stanfield
Superstar
If Russia completely retreats... its only fair for Ukraine to fire a few HIMARS towards Moscow
Moscow when the HIMARS hit Belgorod:
Moscow when one accidently lands in Red Square:
Russia's Invasion of Ukraine (Official Thread)
- Thread starter newarkhiphop
- Start date
Moscow when the HIMARS hit Belgorod:
Moscow when one accidently lands in Red Square:
just one
and call it an accident
(doubt they have anything with the range tho)
Just one
Marlow Stanfield
Superstar
nah imagine...Edit:
There may be obligations in Western orthodoxy but not in the Eastern one which is the "original" version (for lack of better words) which Eastern Europe follows. You link to a Canadian website which is most likely under ROCOR and therefore following Western rite. If I'm not mistaken, the concept of obligation in christianity is very much a catholic thing and Western orthodoxy is so because it had heavy influence from Roman catholic priests/bishops.
That's pure unadulterated bullshyt breh, orthodoxy has a MASSIVE obligation to attend church regularly. If you don't go on Sunday (which you are highly, highly pressured to), then you need to at least get communion at some other time in the week, which you can only do by attending liturgy unless you have some condition.
Why should we attend church every Sunday?
People often ask priests: “Why should we go to church every Sunday?” and then they begin to justify themselves. 1. “We need our sleep, then, we need to spend time with the family, do things around …russianorthodoxchurch.ca
I'm guessing I have slightly more experience in the Orthodox setting than you do breh because I've probably heard the obligation to go to mass on Sunday about 500x. There isn't any church that pressures its congregation to attend weekly more than an Orthodox Church does unless the church is literally dead and the priest has just given up.
For similar reasons that England and Sweden and Italy do. It has nothing to do with being Orthodox, it has to do with adopting secular philosophies above their religious ones.
Which I was well aware of and already pointed out. Tons of people who identify without practicing. It's been increasing as a simple of russian nationalism, but without church attendance increasing it suggests little about true faith has changed.
He's a fukking KGB agent and you think showing up for shyt and wearing a crucifix is proof that he's really sincere?
Literally every example you gave is something openly performative. None of that shows he's a more sincere Christian than Trump, it's just more proof of what we already know - that he has a hell of a lot more discipline than Trump has.
Secularization is not necessarily at play in Russia or not significantly enough :
"This longitudinal study has traced the changes in religiosity from the immediate post-Soviet period to 2007 and finds no evidence that secularization is at work in Russia. The proportion of Russian Orthodox identifiers increases monotonically throughout the period and cohort analysis indicates also that younger postcommunist cohorts express higher levels of religiosity than older cohorts who experienced most years of communism. Moreover, contrary to patterns seen insocieties undergoing secularization, where religiosity is increasingly concentrated among theworking class, the uneducated, and older generations, the new Orthodox in Russia are increasingly equally likely to come from all social backgrounds and in particular from among the youngest, postcommunist, generation. The conclusion that Russia is experiencing a genuine religious revival, making Russia some-what of an exception to the processes of secularization, is further supported by the growth in church attendance accompanying the growth in Russian Orthodox affiliation and by the increasing polarization in moral traditionalism between church attenders and others."
Moreover, there are indeed clear differences in church attendance between catholics and orthodoxs which are not necessarily linked to secularizarion. Here's a study about religious commitment in Eastern Europe : 2. Religious commitment and practices
And that is considering Catholics in Ukraine are mostly in the Lviv region which is western-friendly ie more secular
My original take was this :
I don't see what's wrong with this take as the preservation of cultural/moral traditionalism (established by their orthodox religion which is what most Russians identify with) is one of the reasons why US conservatives stan Putin's Russia.
Finally regarding Putin, we have no way to know whether he is faking it or not. Him being a KGB agent has no bearing on whether he is religious at all. Also, in the Soviet era, there was a state repression towards religions, so it makes sense that he was not openly religious then.
And if any public display of faith is performative to you then I don't see on what grounds you can establish who is truly religious.
For what it's worth and if you can find it, watch Putin's Witnesses which is a documentary from Vitaliy Manskiy (a Russian dissident so not a stan at all) which documents and interviews Putin after Yeltsin's out him on. The footages are from 1999/2000 and even then he was talking and displaying his faith. If he's faking it, he's been at it for more than two decades then.
@Liu Kang , here's a simple test. Go to any Orthodox Church near you. Ask to speak to a priest. Ask him, "If you're an Orthodox Christian and are committed to your faith, how often should you attend liturgy?" Ask him what the Church Fathers have to say on the issue. It's that simple.
Coptic Orthodox which is certainly not western and is as "original" as orthodoxy gets. Russian Orthodoxy didn't come until 1000 years after Coptic Orthodoxy did.
And the link I gave you about the necessity of attending Sunday mass was literally from a Russian Orthodox website. It's not "western rite", so you can't use that excuse, nor is Western Rite any different from eastern in this respect.
Here is a statement from a Greek Orthodox Church (which is from the same sphere as the Russian Orthodox Church and much older) and calls it a sin to not attend liturgy:
gosaintbasil.org
Here is another ROCOR statement:
And here from the OCA, an offshoot of the Russian Orthodox Church and still in communion with it:
www.oca.org
Yes, there is a "revival" in Russia compared to the Soviet anti-religious age, but that study still shows that less than 10% of Russians attend church even once a month. You're clowning yourself if you're trying to claim they don't even go to church once a month and yet that's somehow going to play some significant part in their lives beyond idenity-nationalism and virtue signalling.
Because they were behind the iron curtain and their form of Orthodoxy was fukking dead. The Catholics in there were being led from outside the Iron Curtain by a profoundly anti-Communist church leadership. The Orthodox were being led by actual agents of the KGB. It's pretty obvious that the Orthodox Church in that region was seriously dead.
You can also show higher church attendance in both Catholic and Orthodox European countries compared to Protestant. But that doesn't mean protestants don't value church attendance, they're obsessed with it. The problem is that those particular churches are dead.
I didn't say "only measure", but it's a damn good approximation on the whole. Even your linked study assumed that church attendance was a proxy for the strength of true revival.
As your study pointed out, by that period it was already obvious that identifying as Russian Orthodox was more advantageous politically than identifying as an athiest communist. Putin was already the Prime Minister in 1999 and had been climbing the political ladders for almost a decade. What difference does it make that it's been 20 years, why is it a surprise that he started then and why would he have stopped faking it since?
Believe a man who literally poisons his enemies gives a shyt about God's rules breh.
Coptic Orthodox which is certainly not western and is as "original" as orthodoxy gets. Russian Orthodoxy didn't come until 1000 years after Coptic Orthodoxy did.
And the link I gave you about the necessity of attending Sunday mass was literally from a Russian Orthodox website. It's not "western rite", so you can't use that excuse, nor is Western Rite any different from eastern in this respect.
Here is a statement from a Greek Orthodox Church (which is from the same sphere as the Russian Orthodox Church and much older) and calls it a sin to not attend liturgy:
9c93ab72-b0cb-4706-96bf-9f5be09e507a
gosaintbasil.org
Here is another ROCOR statement:
And here from the OCA, an offshoot of the Russian Orthodox Church and still in communion with it:
Sin - Questions & Answers
What is a mortal sin? What are the categories of sins in the Orthodox church? I am confused because I have a list of the seven grievous sins in the…
www.oca.org
Yes, there is a "revival" in Russia compared to the Soviet anti-religious age, but that study still shows that less than 10% of Russians attend church even once a month. You're clowning yourself if you're trying to claim they don't even go to church once a month and yet that's somehow going to play some significant part in their lives beyond idenity-nationalism and virtue signalling.
Because they were behind the iron curtain and their form of Orthodoxy was fukking dead. The Catholics in there were being led from outside the Iron Curtain by a profoundly anti-Communist church leadership. The Orthodox were being led by actual agents of the KGB. It's pretty obvious that the Orthodox Church in that region was seriously dead.
You can also show higher church attendance in both Catholic and Orthodox European countries compared to Protestant. But that doesn't mean protestants don't value church attendance, they're obsessed with it. The problem is that those particular churches are dead.
I didn't say "only measure", but it's a damn good approximation on the whole. Even your linked study assumed that church attendance was a proxy for the strength of true revival.
As your study pointed out, by that period it was already obvious that identifying as Russian Orthodox was more advantageous politically than identifying as an athiest communist. Putin was already the Prime Minister in 1999 and had been climbing the political ladders for almost a decade. What difference does it make that it's been 20 years, why is it a surprise that he started then and why would he have stopped faking it since?
Believe a man who literally poisons his enemies gives a shyt about God's rules breh.
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What the fukk man
Nothing to do with being "openly" religious, he admits that he was not a practicing Christian until his 40s - which, coincidentally, coincides with the populace's rejection of state athiesm and start of the Russian Church revival.
Like your study points out, that is a somewhat unusual path in Russia. The most religious group in Russia are those who came of age after the Soviets collapsed, not those who were already fully formed at the time. Conversion after the age of 40 is not unheard of, but it's not common either, and it's especially uncommon for powerful people. But for an older person who had aspirations of gaining power in the new Russia? Then it becomes more believeable.
Maybe, you know, actually acting like a Christian instead of making purely performative displays?
He poisons and assassinates people who disagree with him. He commits false flag terrorist acts, killing hundreds of his own civilians, in order to push his political objectives. He sends his personal mercenary force led by the open Nazi, Dmitry Utkin, to commit war crimes around the world.
Even set aside all the war crimes and tens of thousands of people killed in Chechnya, Syria, Ukraine, etc. Perhaps you could claim he thought he was fighting for the greater good or was too distant to realize his guilt or whatever. But no one could read anything about the Gospels and believe Jesus Christ wants you to assassinate people who criticize you. Or that bombing apartment buildings to create a pretext to justify war would be anything other than henious sin. Or that it's okay to send Nazis out to commit war crimes on your behalf.
And let's not forget that Putin's closest allies in the Russian Orthodox Church were themselves KGB agents working for the communist state.
Kirill, the Patriarch in league with Putin | The Spectator
Until very recently, Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, leader of the Russian Orthodox Church, was most famous for being the owner of a phantom wristwatch. It had the magical property of disappearing from sight, visible to onlookers only as a reflection. Don’t believe me? Google ‘Kirill’ and ‘watch’...
Let's remember the words of Anna Politkovskaya, the human rights activist and famous Putin critic who was detained and tortured by Putin's forces in 2001, survived an attemptd assassination by poisoning in 2004, and finally assassinated by gunshot in 2006.
He is a clown and an evil man, in league with the similarly despicable Patriarch Kirill (KGB codename Mikhailov) and before him Patriarch Alexy (KGB code name Drozdov). It is a farce to associate their actions with Christianity just because they wear crosses and show up at religious services in order to put a nationalist/populace tint on their consolidation of wealth and power.