RIGHT, WRONG, AND RELIGION, BROTHER!

[Hulk Hogan]

WELL YOU KNOW SOMETHING GENE, RECENTLY THE HULKSTER WAS HAVING AN ENLIGHTENING CONVERSATION WITH HIS PERSONAL FRIENDS SLY STALLONE AND STEVEN PINKER, BROTHER! SLY OF COURSE IS A FAMOUS CO-STAR OF THAT MOVIE I WAS IN, AND PINKER IS A PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY AT HARVARD, DUDE! SO WE WERE CHOPPING UP GOOD GAME ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF MORALITY AND PINKER DIRECTED ME TO AN ARTICLE HE WROTE:

It is true that science in the narrow sense cannot show what is right or wrong. But neither can appeals to God. It’s not just that the traditional Judeo-Christian God endorsed genocide, slavery, rape, and the death penalty for trivial insults. It’s that morality cannot be grounded in divine decree, not even in principle. Why did God deem some acts moral and others immoral? If he had no reason but divine whim, why should we take his commandments seriously? If he did have reasons, then why not appeal to those reasons directly?

http://www.templeton.org/belief/essays/pinker.pdf

HULKAMANIACS, THE HULKSTER INTERPRETS THE PROBLEM LIKE THIS, BROTHER:

IF GOD DECIDES WHAT RIGHT AND WRONG ARE, THEN RIGHT AND WRONG ARE SIMPLY THE WHIMS OF GOD, AND NOT OBJECTIVE AT ALL! THEY'RE SUBJECTIVE AND OF COURSE AUTHORITARIAN!

BUT IF GOD IS THE BEST KNOWER OF RIGHT AND WRONG, THEN RIGHT AND WRONG PRECEDED GOD! THEY COME FROM ANOTHER SOURCE, MEANING GOD DID NOT CREATE THEM!

THIS IS A DILEMMA FOR ALL THE LITTLE HULKSTERS OUT THERE WHO SAY THEIR PRAYERS BEFORE THEY TAKE THEIR VITAMINS, BROTHER! WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

*passes mic to stable mates*

 

[zerozero]

well, if a person made literally everything exist, i'd happily follow their subjective whims. i'm only here for 60, 80 years, not trying engage in cosmic beef. that lucifer, adam/eve, type rebellion is for a different type of person

I think as humans though we naturally channel whatever we would understand "god's" word to be through the lenses of our worldview, which however can be made up of what people think god thinks already

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Religious people will just say it's a sin to question God and throw in some shyt about how he "moves in mysterious ways" for good measure...maybe some arrogamt comment about how they believe in God and you believe in man. All circular reasoning.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

NO NEED TO END A DISCUSSION BEFORE IT CAN EVEN BEGIN, VICTOR VON DUNGEON OF DOOM! GIVE PEOPLE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND DON'T PUT WORDS IN THEIR MOUTH, CHAMP!

 

[profound]

IF GOD DECIDES WHAT RIGHT AND WRONG ARE, THEN RIGHT AND WRONG ARE SIMPLY THE WHIMS OF GOD, AND NOT OBJECTIVE AT ALL!

well, if a person made literally everything exist, i'd happily follow their subjective whims.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

NO NEED TO END A DISCUSSION BEFORE IT CAN EVEN BEGIN, VICTOR VON DUNGEON OF DOOM! GIVE PEOPLE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND DON'T PUT WORDS IN THEIR MOUTH, CHAMP!

Lol...Dungeon of Doom. Ha! One of the low moments in WCW history.

 

[TrueEpic08]

WELL YOU KNOW SOMETHING GENE, RECENTLY THE HULKSTER WAS HAVING AN ENLIGHTENING CONVERSATION WITH HIS PERSONAL FRIENDS SLY STALLONE AND STEVEN PINKER, BROTHER! SLY OF COURSE IS A FAMOUS CO-STAR OF THAT MOVIE I WAS IN, AND PINKER IS A PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY AT HARVARD, DUDE! SO WE WERE CHOPPING UP GOOD GAME ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF MORALITY AND PINKER DIRECTED ME TO AN ARTICLE HE WROTE:


http://www.templeton.org/belief/essays/pinker.pdf

HULKAMANIACS, THE HULKSTER INTERPRETS THE PROBLEM LIKE THIS, BROTHER:

IF GOD DECIDES WHAT RIGHT AND WRONG ARE, THEN RIGHT AND WRONG ARE SIMPLY THE WHIMS OF GOD, AND NOT OBJECTIVE AT ALL! THEY'RE SUBJECTIVE AND OF COURSE AUTHORITARIAN!

BUT IF GOD IS THE BEST KNOWER OF RIGHT AND WRONG, THEN RIGHT AND WRONG PRECEDED GOD! THEY COME FROM ANOTHER SOURCE, MEANING GOD DID NOT CREATE THEM!

THIS IS A DILEMMA FOR ALL THE LITTLE HULKSTERS OUT THERE WHO SAY THEIR PRAYERS BEFORE THEY TAKE THEIR VITAMINS, BROTHER! WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

*passes mic to stable mates*

...Just who are you anyway, Hulk?

In all honesty, you answered your own question already:

"RIGHT AND WRONG ARE...NOT OBJECTIVE AT ALL! THEY'RE SUBJECTIVE AND OF COURSE AUTHORITARIAN!"

God is nothing but the alienation of the self from the self in an elevated and perfected form. A metaphysical method to explain the material flaws in humanity's conception of the world via a culturally constructed, perfect "negative" being: something on which we map all of the purest "good" qualities of humanity and raise to the level of an idol that works through us. Through this we see qualities such as right and wrong as objective and natural, even though they are just as culturally constructed as any other ideology or cultural-historical narrative. A "Stucco Angel" of sorts (let's play "Who Gets the Reference!")

Through this, we can make and mediate certain conceptions of morality as rigid and exemplary throughout society, and let others and those who practice them dwell in alterity and be seen as practicing (or even taking the form of) evil, even though they're also just made-divine projections of the material flaws of humanity made into a "negative" being: Satan.

In this, you can find a resolution to your question that attempts an annihilation of both categories. But, that's not religious at all, at best a non-theistic, Manichean/Nihilist interpretation of the question, so .

 

[SirSmokeCrackAlot]

WELL YOU KNOW SOMETHING GENE...

 

[Dooby]

WELL YOU KNOW SOMETHING GENE, RECENTLY THE HULKSTER WAS HAVING AN ENLIGHTENING CONVERSATION WITH HIS PERSONAL FRIENDS SLY STALLONE AND STEVEN PINKER, BROTHER! SLY OF COURSE IS A FAMOUS CO-STAR OF THAT MOVIE I WAS IN, AND PINKER IS A PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY AT HARVARD, DUDE! SO WE WERE CHOPPING UP GOOD GAME ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF MORALITY AND PINKER DIRECTED ME TO AN ARTICLE HE WROTE:


http://www.templeton.org/belief/essays/pinker.pdf

HULKAMANIACS, THE HULKSTER INTERPRETS THE PROBLEM LIKE THIS, BROTHER:

IF GOD DECIDES WHAT RIGHT AND WRONG ARE, THEN RIGHT AND WRONG ARE SIMPLY THE WHIMS OF GOD, AND NOT OBJECTIVE AT ALL! THEY'RE SUBJECTIVE AND OF COURSE AUTHORITARIAN!

BUT IF GOD IS THE BEST KNOWER OF RIGHT AND WRONG, THEN RIGHT AND WRONG PRECEDED GOD! THEY COME FROM ANOTHER SOURCE, MEANING GOD DID NOT CREATE THEM!

THIS IS A DILEMMA FOR ALL THE LITTLE HULKSTERS OUT THERE WHO SAY THEIR PRAYERS BEFORE THEY TAKE THEIR VITAMINS, BROTHER! WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

*passes mic to stable mates*

The problem is, you paint a negative picture of God having the subjective morality or being an authoritative figure. You're bringing your own bias into the argument. Since God always was, and created everything, he would know what is best for his creations...therefore his subjective view on morality would be absolute.

Simple as that, really.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

The problem is, you paint a negative picture of God having the subjective morality or being an authoritative figure.

I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE CLEAR, THE HULKSTER IS TALKING ABOUT THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN GOD THAT PINKER WAS COMMENTING ON, BROTHER! THAT PARTICULAR DEITY IS CLEARLY AN AUTHORITARIAN FIGURE, DUUUDE! AND THE SUBJECTIVE PART SEEMS RATHER STRAIGHTFORWARD! IF RIGHT AND WRONG ARE SIMPLY DECIDED BY THIS INDIVIDUAL, THEY CAN'T BE OBJECTIVE, BY DEFINITION, BROTHER!

Since God always was, and created everything, he would know what is best for his creations...

BROTHER YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THE DILEMMA AGAIN, BROTHER! IF HE SIMPLY KNOWS WHAT IS BEST, THIS MEANS RIGHT AND WRONG DID NOT COME FROM HIM! THEY HAD TO HAVE PRECEDED HIM!

his subjective view on morality would be absolute.

SUBJECTIVITY, BY DEFINITION, IS NOT ABSOLUTE, BROTHER!

 

[Dooby]

I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE CLEAR, THE HULKSTER IS TALKING ABOUT THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN GOD THAT PINKER WAS COMMENTING ON, BROTHER! THAT PARTICULAR DEITY IS CLEARLY AN AUTHORITARIAN FIGURE, DUUUDE! AND THE SUBJECTIVE PART SEEMS RATHER STRAIGHTFORWARD! IF RIGHT AND WRONG ARE SIMPLY DECIDED BY THIS INDIVIDUAL, THEY CAN'T BE OBJECTIVE, BY DEFINITION, BROTHER!



BROTHER YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THE DILEMMA AGAIN, BROTHER! IF HE SIMPLY KNOWS WHAT IS BEST, THIS MEANS RIGHT AND WRONG DID NOT COME FROM HIM! THEY HAD TO HAVE PRECEDED HIM!


SUBJECTIVITY, BY DEFINITION, IS NOT ABSOLUTE, BROTHER!

OK again, you're painting a negative picture of what God "has the right" to be. Yes he may be an authoritative figure but that's because everything was created by him so he has the right be one. And no one was arguing that it was objective...but since God has the most ultimate knowledge, compared to our severely limited knowledge, how could our reasoning possibly be compared? Christians never denied the fact that God is an authoritarian figure. Christians never denied God acts within subjective morality.

I am still not completely sure why you are hung up by the knowing what is best bit. Saying anything preceded God would be paradoxical because he has always been. And to my understanding, absolute is a synonym for perfection. I was saying his subjective view on morality is perfect.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

OK again, you're painting a negative picture of what God "has the right" to be.

THE HULKSTER HAS THE RIGHT TO PAINT THAT PICTURE, BROTHER! THE WWF CHAMP DOESN'T HAVE A HIGH OPINION OF DICTATORSHIP! ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S JACK TUNNEY, DUDE!

authoritative

AUTHORITARIAN!

And no one was arguing that it was objective

CHRISTIANS OFTEN CLAIM THAT OBJECTIVE MORALITY COMES FROM GOD, BROTHER! I DOUBT YOU WOULD DISPUTE THAT, MAN!

Christians never denied God acts within subjective morality.

Oh.

...God has the most ultimate knowledge... Saying anything preceded God would be paradoxical

IF HE MERELY HAS KNOWLEDGE OF RIGHT AND WRONG, THIS MEANS THEY EXISTED INDEPENDENT OF HIM, BROTHER!

his subjective view on morality is perfect.

"MIGHT MAKES RIGHT" IS NOT THE BEST SYSTEM OF MORALITY THE HULKSTER CAN IMAGINE, BROTHER!

 

[Dooby]

1. THE HULKSTER HAS THE RIGHT TO PAINT THAT PICTURE, BROTHER! THE WWF CHAMP DOESN'T HAVE A HIGH OPINION OF DICTATORSHIP! ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S JACK TUNNEY, DUDE!


AUTHORITARIAN!


2. CHRISTIANS OFTEN CLAIM THAT OBJECTIVE MORALITY COMES FROM GOD, BROTHER! I DOUBT YOU WOULD DISPUTE THAT, MAN!


Oh.



3. IF HE MERELY HAS KNOWLEDGE OF RIGHT AND WRONG, THIS MEANS THEY EXISTED INDEPENDENT OF HIM, BROTHER!


4. "MIGHT MAKES RIGHT" IS NOT THE BEST SYSTEM OF MORALITY THE HULKSTER CAN IMAGINE, BROTHER!

1. You have the right? Involving your personal feelings in a debate isn't logical nor wise.

2. That is impossible to say that, though. If Christians accept the fact that they receive their moral standards from God, then they are accepting the fact that it is HIS moral standards they are upholding therefore making it subjective. They always say that. They always say to live by God's standards...WWJD, etc. etc. Hell, when they say they are trying to be a good christian that means they are trying to follow a moral rule set laid out by god. So that is why it is impossible to say otherwise.

3. Well you have the burden of proof, prove your statement. I'm tired of you saying that Your thought process makes no sense. Just because someone has knowledge of something doesn't mean it existed independently of that person. I'm waiting on your proof.

4. Again. You're adding your own biases into this discussion which is not recommended. Especially one concerning God.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

BROTHER IT'S NOT EVEN REMOTELY CONTROVERSIAL TO DESCRIBE THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN DEITY AS AN AUTHORITARIAN WITH A MEAN STREAK, BROTHER! THE HULKSTER DOESN'T SEE WHY THAT'S STUCK IN YOUR CRAW!

AND IT MAY BE IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY OBJECTIVE MORALITY COMES FROM GOD, BUT CHRISTIANS DO MAKE THE ARGUMENT, DUUUDE!

YOU SEEM TO BE CONFUSED BY THE PREMISES OF THE ORIGINAL DILEMMA, BROTHER! EITHER GOD IS THE CREATOR OF RIGHT AND WRONG OR HE IS THE BEST KNOWER OF WHAT IS RIGHT AND WRONG! IN THE FIRST CASE, THIS MAKES MORALITY SUBJECT TO GOD'S WHIMS! IN THE SECOND, THIS MEANS MORALITY HAS A SOURCE OUTSIDE OF GOD! HOW CAN I EXPLAIN THAT MORE CLEARLY, BROTHER?

 

[Type Username Here]

WELL YOU KNOW SOMETHING GENE, RECENTLY THE HULKSTER WAS HAVING AN ENLIGHTENING CONVERSATION WITH HIS PERSONAL FRIENDS SLY STALLONE AND STEVEN PINKER, BROTHER! SLY OF COURSE IS A FAMOUS CO-STAR OF THAT MOVIE I WAS IN, AND PINKER IS A PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY AT HARVARD, DUDE! SO WE WERE CHOPPING UP GOOD GAME ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF MORALITY AND PINKER DIRECTED ME TO AN ARTICLE HE WROTE:


http://www.templeton.org/belief/essays/pinker.pdf

HULKAMANIACS, THE HULKSTER INTERPRETS THE PROBLEM LIKE THIS, BROTHER:

IF GOD DECIDES WHAT RIGHT AND WRONG ARE, THEN RIGHT AND WRONG ARE SIMPLY THE WHIMS OF GOD, AND NOT OBJECTIVE AT ALL! THEY'RE SUBJECTIVE AND OF COURSE AUTHORITARIAN!

BUT IF GOD IS THE BEST KNOWER OF RIGHT AND WRONG, THEN RIGHT AND WRONG PRECEDED GOD! THEY COME FROM ANOTHER SOURCE, MEANING GOD DID NOT CREATE THEM!

THIS IS A DILEMMA FOR ALL THE LITTLE HULKSTERS OUT THERE WHO SAY THEIR PRAYERS BEFORE THEY TAKE THEIR VITAMINS, BROTHER! WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

*passes mic to stable mates*

Yea, this line of reasoning is as old as dirt.

Euthyphro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Socrates doing what he allegedly did.