Religion: Friend or Foe for the black community? (Grapevine)

[Lamar Givens]

The burden of proof lies on the person making the positive claim. For example, if I assert: "Unicorns exist!!" The burden is then on me to provide the PROOF validating my claim.
I can't say "Well, prove that they don't!" whenever I get challenged. Because it is impossible to prove a negative. You cannot prove something DOESN'T exist, only that it does.
So until you can provide some proof for your claims, hold off on your requests for "intelligent dialogue", you haven't met the criteria yet.

The burden of proof has been provided.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God incarnate in the flesh and has revealed himself. (Proof)

1. Falsify that the Torah, Gospels, and New Testament are not historical documents. (Proof)

2. Falsify that Jesus was not a real historical person. (Proof)

3. Falsify Jesus miracles, that testify to him being the Son of God. (Proof)

4. Falsify that his life, teachings, death on a cross by the hands of the Romans, and buried in a borrowed tomb are not recorded in secular history as well as the Gospels and New Testament. (Proof)

5. Falsify the resurrection of Jesus Christ that demonstrates he is the Son of God. (Proof)

6. Falsify the claims of first and second hand eye witness accounts as recorded in The Gospels, and New Testament of his life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Proof)

7. Falsify the the documents by first century Fathers who received testimony from 1st and 2nd eye witness accounts of Jesus earthly ministry, death, and resurrection. (Proof)

8. Thank you for trying to throw shade about the criteria of the discussion not being met, it just demonstrates your trying to step into a league/discussion your not ready for.

9. Eagerly waiting your replies that will not academically, and empirically contradict each point made. Looking forward to making you look like an utter fool to the entire Coli sister/brethren.

10. Next time I bet you will mind your own business instead of trying to be slick and throw shade

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

The burden of proof has been provided.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God incarnate in the flesh and has revealed himself. (Proof)

1. Falsify that the Torah, Gospels, and New Testament are not historical documents. (Proof)

2. Falsify that Jesus was not a real historical person. (Proof)

3. Falsify Jesus miracles, that testify to him being the Son of God. (Proof)

4. Falsify that his life, teachings, death on a cross by the hands of the Romans, and buried in a borrowed tomb are not recorded in secular history as well as the Gospels and New Testament. (Proof)

5. Falsify the resurrection of Jesus Christ that demonstrates he is the Son of God. (Proof)

6. Falsify the claims of first and second hand eye witness accounts as recorded in The Gospels, and New Testament of his life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Proof)

7. Falsify the the documents by first century Fathers who received testimony from 1st and 2nd eye witness accounts of Jesus earthly ministry, death, and resurrection. (Proof)

8. Thank you for trying to throw shade about the criteria of the discussion not being met, it just demonstrates your trying to step into a league/discussion your not ready for.

9. Eagerly waiting your replies that will not academically, and empirically contradict each point made. Looking forward to making you look like an utter fool to the entire Coli sister/brethren.

10. Next time I bet you will mind your own business instead of trying to be slick and throw shade

​

First off I could care less about this particular topic of religion no matter which side is being taken. ........that said your argumentation is X 10

My ISSUE 1:
"Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God incarnate in the flesh and has revealed himself. (Proof)"

That's not "proof" that's a claim ....an assertion. The means by which a claim is verified is by it's capacity to be reproduced. Proof is the means by which an independent party can reproduce your claim. You can't verify a claim by restating the claim again ...you can only clarify what claim was initially made.


My Issue 2:
1. Falsify that the Torah, Gospels, and New Testament are not historical documents. (Proof)
2. Falsify that Jesus was not a real historical person. (Proof)

What's with all this "Falsify" stuff? Are you trying to say...

1. I dare you to Falsify that the Torah, Gospels, and New Testament are not historical documents. (Proof)
2 .I dare you to Falsify that Jesus was not a real historical person. (Proof)

That's the only way that remotely makes sense.
If so then again, that's not "proof". That's called you making a claim ...then demanding/daring someone prove you wrong.

That's like me claiming you're mother is dead without any proof. Then saying, until you prove to me she isn't dead(introduce me to her) I'm going to keep telling everyone she is dead.

Conclusion:
I'd have more respect for your position if you went the regular rout and simply stated "The Bible says (insert claim here)" now that still leaves the validity of the bible in question but at least your statements wouldn't be so off the wall. Hell I'd even take it if you just said...

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God incarnate in the flesh and has revealed himself.

And left it there. You have no obligation to verify a claim, statement, or assertion. The point of which is simply to notify people of your position(unless your intention is to persuade). If they don't like it ...oh well. But when you start passing your assertions off as proof ...I gotta call ya out on dat one bruh

 

[satam55]

 

[Lamar Givens]

​

First off I could care less about this particular topic of religion no matter which side is being taken. ........that said your argumentation is X 10

My ISSUE 1:
"Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God incarnate in the flesh and has revealed himself. (Proof)"

That's not "proof" that's a claim ....an assertion. The means by which a claim is verified is by it's capacity to be reproduced. Proof is the means by which an independent party can reproduce your claim. You can't verify a claim by restating the claim again ...you can only clarify what claim was initially made.


My Issue 2:
1. Falsify that the Torah, Gospels, and New Testament are not historical documents. (Proof)
2. Falsify that Jesus was not a real historical person. (Proof)

What's with all this "Falsify" stuff? Are you trying to say...

1. I dare you to Falsify that the Torah, Gospels, and New Testament are not historical documents. (Proof)
2 .I dare you to Falsify that Jesus was not a real historical person. (Proof)

That's the only way that remotely makes sense.
If so then again, that's not "proof". That's called you making a claim ...then demanding/daring someone prove you wrong.

That's like me claiming you're mother is dead without any proof. Then saying, until you prove to me she isn't dead(introduce me to her) I'm going to keep telling everyone she is dead.

Conclusion:
I'd have more respect for your position if you went the regular rout and simply stated "The Bible says (insert claim here)" now that still leaves the validity of the bible in question but at least your statements wouldn't be so off the wall. Hell I'd even take it if you just said...

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God incarnate in the flesh and has revealed himself.

And left it there. You have no obligation to verify a claim, statement, or assertion. The point of which is simply to notify people of your position(unless your intention is to persuade). If they don't like it ...oh well. But when you start passing your assertions off as proof ...I gotta call ya out on dat one bruh

You ignorance is beyond baffling.

The whole point of posting each point is because all of it can be academically and verifiably researched to see if what is written is false. Please keep your mouth closed when you evidently are ignorant on the issue.

 

[Lamar Givens]

If you are black and ignorant watch and believe this video based on ignorance.

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

You ignorance is beyond baffling.

The whole point of posting each point is because all of it can be academically and verifiably researched to see if what is written is false. Please keep your mouth closed when you evidently are ignorant on the issue.

​

...If so then again, that's not "proof". That's called you making a claim ...then demanding/daring someone prove you wrong.​

That's like me claiming you're mother is dead without any proof. Then saying, until you prove to me she isn't dead(introduce me to her) I'm going to keep telling everyone she is dead.

If your intention is to prove something then the onus is on you to provide verification. I.E. a quote, statistics, citation, etc. That's not the other persons job. You are the one trying to persuade someone else.

 

[ThatTruth777]

I'll check it out but haven't really enjoyed their past discussions.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Practice the religions of your enslavers, brehs and brehettes.

In general, institutionalized religion is a foe of humanity, but it is particularly pernicious when oppressed groups practice their oppressor's religion

 

[Lamar Givens]

​

If your intention is to prove something then the onus is on you to provide verification. I.E. a quote, statistics, citation, etc. That's not the other persons job. You are the one trying to persuade someone else.

I'm not going to do your homework for you.

You can first start by learning Hebrew, Latin, Aramaic, and Greek, which I have done.

Next save up some traveling money and visit Jerusalem, Germany, Europe, Italy where some of the original manuscripts are located on display.

Go and take courses on Textual Criticism and the process that goes into identifying authentic texts from forgeries.

Save up more money and go on actual archaeological excavations to uncovered cities found within the Jewish and Christian texts.

Me just throwing out some sources is nothing, especially when all anti Jesus haters will do is reject them anyway as bias.

It's just like biology, you have lab where you have to do first hand empirical, objective research for yourself.

If you want something beneficial I can provide some traveling/touring information for overseas like Turkey, Greece, Egypt, etc where you can travel and see the proof first hand for yourself.

Perpetuating black ignorance on the validity and truth of the Hebrew and Christian texts has got to stop. More and more of our black brethren who have put in the work, researched, and verified the claims are frustrated with this ignorance of some black people ignoring the texts for militiant pro black acceptance. The shiiiiiiii needs to stop.

STOP PERPETUATING BLACK IGNORANCE BY REJECTING THE TRUTH OF THE MOST HIGH AND HIS SON YESHUA.

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

I'm not going to do your homework for you.

You can first start by learning Hebrew, Latin, Aramaic, and Greek, which I have done.

Next save up some traveling money and visit Jerusalem, Germany, Europe, Italy where some of the original manuscripts are located on display.

Go and take courses on Textual Criticism and the process that goes into identifying authentic texts from forgeries.

Save up more money and go on actual archaeological excavations to uncovered cities found within the Jewish and Christian texts.

Me just throwing out some sources is nothing, especially when all anti Jesus haters will do is reject them anyway as bias.

It's just like biology, you have lab where you have to do first hand empirical, objective research for yourself.

If you want something beneficial I can provide some traveling/touring information for overseas like Turkey, Greece, Egypt, etc where you can travel and see the proof first hand for yourself.

Perpetuating black ignorance on the validity and truth of the Hebrew and Christian texts has got to stop. More and more of our black brethren who have put in the work, researched, and verified the claims are frustrated with this ignorance of some black people ignoring the texts for militiant pro black acceptance. The shiiiiiiii needs to stop.

STOP PERPETUATING BLACK IGNORANCE BY REJECTING THE TRUTH OF THE MOST HIGH AND HIS SON YESHUA.

​

...If so then again, that's not "proof". That's called you making a claim ...then demanding/daring someone prove you wrong.​

That's like me claiming you're mother is dead without any proof. Then saying, until you prove to me she isn't dead(introduce me to her) I'm going to keep telling everyone she is dead.

 

[Mojo Jojo Morpheus]

The burden of proof has been provided.

You actually haven't. Not even a little bit. Pay attention, I'll walk you through it.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is God incarnate in the flesh and has revealed himself. (Proof)

See, this is exactly what I was talking about. This is 3 positive claims in one statement, not "(Proof)". You are claiming that (1) there exists some omnipotent being commonly known as God, (2) a historical person known as "Jesus Christ" existed some time in the past, and (3) the aforementioned Jesus Christ was an avatar of God that revealed His divine nature to humanity.
After having made these claims, you would then have to provide some kind of logical proof to support your claims. Here I'll help you with one: Everything we know has a cause. We know of nothing which is the cause of itself. Therefore, there must be some first, un-caused Cause which has resulted in all we know. This un-caused Cause is God. Therefore, God must exist because what we know of the universe demands it.
See? Like that. That's a fairly simple logical proof with clear premises and soundly reasoned conclusions. Now you try.

1. Falsify that the Torah, Gospels, and New Testament are not historical documents. (Proof)

2. Falsify that Jesus was not a real historical person. (Proof)

3. Falsify Jesus miracles, that testify to him being the Son of God. (Proof)

4. Falsify that his life, teachings, death on a cross by the hands of the Romans, and buried in a borrowed tomb are not recorded in secular history as well as the Gospels and New Testament. (Proof)

5. Falsify the resurrection of Jesus Christ that demonstrates he is the Son of God. (Proof)

6. Falsify the claims of first and second hand eye witness accounts as recorded in The Gospels, and New Testament of his life, death, burial, and resurrection. (Proof)

7. Falsify the the documents by first century Fathers who received testimony from 1st and 2nd eye witness accounts of Jesus earthly ministry, death, and resurrection. (Proof)

Look, every time you ask anyone to "Falsify", you are asking them to disprove your positive claim. This is impossible. No one can definitively prove the non-existence of a thing. We can only provide evidence to attest to the truth-value of a given statement.
Seeing as how you are the one making truth claims, the burden is on you to provide evidence supporting them. You are the one that needs to:

1. Provide evidence that the Torah, Gospels, and New Testament are historical documents.

2. Provide evidence that Jesus was a real historical person.

3. Provide evidence Jesus miracles, that testify to him being the Son of God.

4. Provide evidence that Jesus's life, teachings, death on a cross by the hands of the Romans, and burial in a borrowed tomb are recorded in secular history as well as the Gospels and New Testament.

5. Provide evidence of the resurrection of Jesus Christ that demonstrates he is the Son of God.

6. Provide evidence that the accounts as recorded in The Gospels, and New Testament of Jesus's life, death, burial, and resurrection are claims of first- and second-hand eye witnesses.

7. Provide evidence that the documents recorded by first century Fathers were received testimony from 1st and 2nd-hand eye witness accounts of Jesus earthly ministry, death, and resurrection.

None of these claims are proof of ANYTHING, in and of themselves. They need to be corroborated by factual evidence or logical proofs or some combination of the two.

8. Thank you for trying to throw shade about the criteria of the discussion not being met, it just demonstrates your trying to step into a league/discussion your not ready for.

9. Eagerly waiting your replies that will not academically, and empirically contradict each point made. Looking forward to making you look like an utter fool to the entire Coli sister/brethren.

10. Next time I bet you will mind your own business instead of trying to be slick and throw shade

Tell me more.

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

@Mojo Jojo Morpheus is dude always this obtuse

 

[Lamar Givens]

You actually haven't. Not even a little bit. Pay attention, I'll walk you through it.



See, this is exactly what I was talking about. This is 3 positive claims in one statement, not "(Proof)". You are claiming that (1) there exists some omnipotent being commonly known as God, (2) a historical person known as "Jesus Christ" existed some time in the past, and (3) the aforementioned Jesus Christ was an avatar of God that revealed His divine nature to humanity.
After having made these claims, you would then have to provide some kind of logical proof to support your claims. Here I'll help you with one: Everything we know has a cause. We know of nothing which is the cause of itself. Therefore, there must be some first, un-caused Cause which has resulted in all we know. This un-caused Cause is God. Therefore, God must exist because what we know of the universe demands it.
See? Like that. That's a fairly simple logical proof with clear premises and soundly reasoned conclusions. Now you try.


Look, every time you ask anyone to "Falsify", you are asking them to disprove your positive claim. This is impossible. No one can definitively prove the non-existence of a thing. We can only provide evidence to attest to the truth-value of a given statement.
Seeing as how you are the one making truth claims, the burden is on you to provide evidence supporting them. You are the one that needs to:

1. Provide evidence that the Torah, Gospels, and New Testament are historical documents.

2. Provide evidence that Jesus was a real historical person.

3. Provide evidence Jesus miracles, that testify to him being the Son of God.

4. Provide evidence that Jesus's life, teachings, death on a cross by the hands of the Romans, and burial in a borrowed tomb are recorded in secular history as well as the Gospels and New Testament.

5. Provide evidence of the resurrection of Jesus Christ that demonstrates he is the Son of God.

6. Provide evidence that the accounts as recorded in The Gospels, and New Testament of Jesus's life, death, burial, and resurrection are claims of first- and second-hand eye witnesses.

7. Provide evidence that the documents recorded by first century Fathers were received testimony from 1st and 2nd-hand eye witness accounts of Jesus earthly ministry, death, and resurrection.

None of these claims are proof of ANYTHING, in and of themselves. They need to be corroborated by factual evidence or logical proofs or some combination of the two.


Tell me more.

Same cac atheist arguments that have been refuted.

I provided you the materials to do your homework, now you want me to do your take home quiz...

 

[Free White & 21]

At this point "religions" are foes to all communities, especially black. We need to toss most of that nonsense in the bushes ASAP

 

[Black Panther]

I believe in Almighty God and Jesus as Savior.

The black community got more stuff done during Civil Rights when the majority of blacks rallied behind the church.

That doesn't diminish the efforts of blacks following NOI or other religions during that period, but the black church was the cornerstone of Civil Rights, brehs.