Randy Orton gets into it with another neckbeard favorite on twitter

[Hey_zeus]

I need to watch Takeover. Completely forgot about that this weekend

 

[Cartier Murphy]

let's hear what @R=G has to say

JACK SWAGGER is in the top 20???

 

[TrueEpic08]

let's hear what @R=G has to say

This data doesn't really conclusively tell me anything about drawing power. I'm not even saying it's wrong, just that you can't get a complete picture of how someone draws from it.

For instance: This chart doesn't address why all of the lowest per show numbers seem to be coming from between 2003 and 2005 in general. This is especially suspicious given that Meltzer's own research had Lesnar as the biggest draw in wrestling in 2003, Guerrero as the third biggest draw of 2004, and Triple H as either the biggest or second biggest draw of 03, 04, and 05 (JBL isn't on any of those lists, by the way). Conversely, it's really interesting that the Shield boys are so high on this list, but every single metric from WWE states that house shows are in the shytter, to the point that they're literally better off not running house shows during the pandemic than running a bunch of money losing live shows like they normally would (case in point, AEW's been surviving off the revenue from their live TV deal and Dynamite gates, and may end up in the black even with this pandemic killing their live business for the year).

This leads me to another point: Attendance numbers really don't mean shyt in 2020, at least without proper context. An attendance number can be papered or otherwise juked in a million different ways (if I'm remembering correctly, WCW did a 4 for 1 gun buyback for Beach Blast 1993, where a gun would get you four free tickets, among about a thousand other promoting tricks they used in the early 90s), which means that just because you had 5,000 people in your arena doesn't necessarily mean that they all paid market rates to get in. And even with that, house show numbers have become only one marker of drawing power and have been such since the mid-1980s shift to promoting PPV cards. You could even argue that they've become secondary markets outright: despite the WWF absolutely killing WCW in house show attendance and revenue, WCW had the upper hand in 1996-1998 because they were winning everywhere else, and it was only when they got guys on top that could juice the houses AND ratings AND ad revenue AND PPV revenue that the WWF came out on top.

In fact, Eddie's ability to juice ratings amd attendance among SmackDown's massive Latino audience at the time was why people were calling him the "Latino Stone Cold" before he died (he was the fukking reason why that audience existed in the first place). Multiple credible sources have fingered Eddie Guerrero as a draw based on these merits, but I'm supposed to abandon that belief based on some hastily done attendance research by a Twitter rando? I need more data and analysis than that.

Eric Bischoff got a LOT wrong when he was running WCW. But one thing he did get right (among many other things, believe it or not) was that wrestling was moving away from being a house show business, and becoming a TV business. Therefore, any measure of who is and isn't a draw from the mid-1980s onward increasingly has to take into account not just how much people PAY (key word this chart doesn't begin to deal with) to see guys, but how many people are buying their PPVs, their segment-by-segment performance on TV, merchandising numbers, online trending data, etc. Anything that doesn't deal with those metrics and tries to ascertain who is more of a draw than whom is inconclusive at best.

 

[BrehWyatt]

I need to watch Takeover. Completely forgot about that this weekend

Solid show, but NXT needs fans more than any other piece of WWE programming. BADLY.

 

[Here Comes the Pain]

Nxt stay overproducing their matches.

Orton nipped that in the bud real fast

 

[Norrin Radd]

During a WWE Backlash conference call, Randy Orton was asked about what it would be like to go to NXT and face off against Tommaso Ciampa, who he has recently been trading jabs with on Twitter this week. Orton said he would do whatever the boss asks him to do and would love to work with the young talent in NXT.

"Yeah, whatever Vince tells me to do, I am going to do it," Orton said. "If it's working with Tommaso Ciampa then I'd be all for it, I think he's very talented and there's a few things I can help him with. Mainly, to help him get a little more out of his career.

"I know he's been plagued with injuries, but I also know he loves and respects this business. The NXT guys worry me because I see them doing such highly physical things during their matches, those things are dangerous and they wear and tear on your career."

Orton discussed NXT's style of matches being more physical and high-risk compared to the main roster and his style of wrestling.

"When you see so much of that back to back, you don't get to invest in these matches because they're just one thing after another. Although it's highly physically impressive, and I wouldn't be able to do that style, they're going to have very short careers.

"I worry about Ciampa in particular because with all these big injuries he's had, he needs to learn how to tell stories and slow it down and not think that the fans want to see him kill himself. You're only as good as the last match you ever had."

Orton noted that wrestlers have had their careers cut short due to wrestling a tough style. Orton said that ultimately the goal should be to get paid.

"If you only get 3 or 4 years of a career with the WWE because you did a lot of careless and reckless moves, you have to look back and kick yourself in the ass and wish that you didn't," Orton stated. "Smarter, not harder. When it comes down to it, this is a business, we all need to make money. You can't destroy your body and make no money doing it and then you end up working at McDonalds because you never went to college and you destroyed your neck in the ring. There has to be a purpose and that purpose is getting paid."

"That's my biggest concern for those guys in NXT," Orton continued. "I would love to go down there and share a little bit of knowledge with them."

Orton has had a storied career and signed a ten-year contract this past January. Orton, who turned 40 this past April, said that he plans to retire when his contract is up and he turns 50.

"I've been doing this 20 years, and I'll do it another 10," Orton said. "My plan would be to keep going until my 50th birthday. I would be able to do that and support my family for 30 years because of the way I tell stories in the ring. The facial expression, transitional things, those are the things people remember."

The amount of condescension in this interview is hilarious

 

[CBoz]

Nxt stay overproducing their matches.

Orton nipped that in the bud real fast

What the hell was that Last Man Standing match if not an overproduced 36min. bore fest?

 

[Toe Jay Simpson]

Orton came up working an athletic and explosive style. A lot of old heads, including Austin saw his potential and sat him down about that.

10 World titles later we saw who was right

 

[Rell84shots]

Orton came up working an athletic and explosive style. A lot of old heads, including Austin saw his potential and sat him down about that.

10 World titles later we saw who was right

Randy Orton recently participated in a conference call to promote this Sunday's WWE Backlash PPV and commented on the NXT superstars. Here is what Orton said courtesy of 411Mania.com...

“The NXT guys worry me because I see them doing such highly physical things during their matches. It’s almost like they do so many impressive physically impressive things but those things are dangerous and they wear and tear on your career. I’ve been doing this 20 years and I’ll do it another decade. I just turned 40 and my plan is to just keep going until my 50th birthday and I think I would be able to do that and I would be able to support my family for 30 years of wrestling under Vince McMahon because of the way I tell stories in the ring. The facial expressions, the little transitional things that you do on the fly or you ad-lib so to speak during a match, those are the things that people remember.”

“I watched a match the other day, and I’m not going to name names, and a lot of the NXT guys work like this, and it was just train wreck after train wreck after train wreck, and it’s all very impressive, but when it’s all said and done and the match is over, I couldn’t remember anything that happened, because it was just movement, it was just car crashes. And when you see so much of that back to back, and you don’t see how that effected the talent, meaning they didn’t sell that move or that wasn’t enough of a delay between high spots that I was able to see facial expressions, and see that, ‘Oh, this guy hurts, oh, he hurt his neck on this spot, and he just tried to pick up the other guy because he couldn’t because his neck is hurt, oh, I think he’s really hurt,’ you don’t get to invest into these matches because they are just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, one thing after the other. And even though it is highly physically impressive, I wouldn’t be able to do that style, a lot of the things these guys do, I’m not capable of doing, but they’re gonna have very short careers.

There's working a less riskier style, and then there's what Orton has been doing. Orton didn't get the nickname Mr. Rest hold for no reason, he's made a career out of being lazy in the ring. The irony with Stone Cold is that if he had wrestled how he did in 98 he would've never needed those knee braces. Pre 98 Stone Cold used to have a frenetic overwhelming offensive wrestling style.

 

[BrehWyatt]

What the hell was that Last Man Standing match if not an overproduced 36min. bore fest?

Probably wasn't great but on the other hand ... you have Ciampa vs. Cole

 

[RammerJammer]

let's hear what @R=G has to say

According to this list, Jack Swagger and The Miz are bigger draws than The Undertaker, Bret Hart, Ultimate Warrior, Edge, Kane, Kurt Angle, and Batista.

 

[TOAD99]

The amount of condescension in this interview is hilarious

Honesty Orton does have a point

some of those bumps these dudes take during regular ass matches is

As much as I love Darby, he kills himself every week

priest and that stupid back bump the other day

They need to find a middle ground and not go crazy while still having a good match

 

[CBoz]

Probably wasn't great but on the other hand ... you have Ciampa vs. Cole

Any match Ciampa has done >> Orton

 

[EarlyEarly]

No way Brocks numbers are that bad.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Randy Orton recently spoke with Brent Brookhouse of CBS Sports and commented on his recent back & forth with WWE NXT Superstar Tommaso Ciampa on Twitter.

Orton had tweeted about "leg slaps" at the "Takeover: In Your House" event and Ciampa responded by saying he had used Orton's matches to help put his daughter to sleep. Orton fired back with another shot at Ciampa and the NXT brand. Orton then defeated WWE Hall of Famer Edge in "The Greatest Wrestling Match Ever" at WWE Backlash and put emphasis on the RKO leg slap to get the win.

Orton explained the leg slap comment and said he was just having fun, and things got taken a little too seriously. He also commented on NXT talents and the main roster.

"So, the leg slap comment was just me having fun and it got taken a little too seriously," Orton said. "I've been outspoken about the leg slap because I've seen more and more and more and more and more and more leg slaps. Same with repeating moves. Same with guys using the same move. It's superkick, superkick, superkick, superkick. Or they've got that running knee. Every time any of those things happen, you get a big slap to the leg. That has nothing to do with the state of Tommaso's physical wellbeing, but there's that style. If you're a talent and you've made it as far as NXT, which is very close to the top of the mountain ... if you think that you have to go out there and get powerbombed on the apron after neck surgery, or if you think you have to go out there and do these dives and flips bell to bell just because the fans want to see half a dozen near-death experiences? I feel sorry for you because you're not going to reap the benefits of what this business offers.

"One of those is longevity. I don't know anything about what NXT pay is like, but it certainly ain't Raw and SmackDown pay. I don't know what you get paid for a TakeOver, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that, at WrestleMania, my paycheck was bigger than the TakeOver guys. Now, I hate when guys talk about 'my big bank account' or 'my big check' or this or that and 'I'm more rich than you.' That's not what I'm saying here. I'm saying that NXT shouldn't be the goal. Raw or SmackDown should be the goal."

Orton also took issue with Ciampa's comments on Lilian Garcia's podcast, where he said he would retire if he moved from NXT to RAW or SmackDown because the lighter NXT schedule gave him four more stable years rather than the brutal grind of the main roster.

"That man has got a little baby," Orton said. "Just this morning I watched his 'Black Heart' documentary on WWE Network that followed him around after his neck surgery. I'll admit, I welled up and got a little tear in my eye when he woke up from the neck surgery and his beautiful little daughter was sitting on his lap and he was touching her face and just happy to see her and his wife. That's heartwarming. I would love nothing more than to see Tommaso have a long, healthy career and retire and not need to go learn a new trade or go work at the local whatever the f--k to make ends meet and put food on the table. I want to see all these guys succeed. When you're talking about that? Making money. It's a business. It's a business. You've got to make money.

"I would think, no matter how much you love NXT, you've got to look at the bigger picture. If you don't think you're going to last on the road for Raw and SmackDown? Do something about it. Go and sign a contract that calls for you to only show up at TV. They do NXT every week and they do a TakeOver whenever. They're wrestling about as much as we're wrestling, especially right now. With the future and no one knowing how many shows we're going to be putting on, I think it's a bit of a cop out to say, 'I can get four years of NXT versus one year of Raw or SmackDown.'"

He continued, "I think with the kind of hustle Tommaso has shown he has, I think he's perfectly capable. I think he's a big fish in a relatively small pond. I don't mean that as a knock, to be clear. But I want to see him try to become a big fish in a bigger pond. I would like to see him under the pressure to have something like the greatest wrestling match ever. And I would love to work with him."

Orton went on to praise Ciampa for his in-ring storytelling. He said he loves Ciampa's work and would love to get in the ring with him. He praised Kevin Owens for having a strong presence in NXT when he was there, but going to the main roster so he could show the world how good he was. Orton said Ciampa could be in the same boat. Orton believes they can make some good money together.

"Tommaso can be in the same boat, and I think there's a way to do it. I'm hoping that, soon, I can get in the ring with him and we can go out there and get the crowd interested with good promos and good stories and we can go somewhere with it," Orton said. "We can make some money. Because, guess what? It's a business. We get paid to do this, everybody. You've got to look at it like that. No matter how much you love and respect the business. Hell, I grew up in the business. My family went bankrupt because of professional wrestling when my dad wasn't working as much and was making those s--tty paydays. I've seen the top and I've seen the bottom. I'm not saying NXT is the bottom. I'm just saying, you're one step away from being at the top. Don't stop there."

Randy Orton Explains His "Leg Slap" Comments, Says Tommaso Ciampa Is "In A Relatively Small Pond" - Wrestling Inc.