Raekwon - Fly International Luxurious Art (F.I.L.A.) (Discussion Thread)

Billy Ocean

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You're deliberately not seeing my point.

I'm not saying they should make Camay. I'm saying... if you set a precedent and made a joint like Camay as a child, I'm expecting more mature stuff as an adult. "All About You" seems like disposable fluff. Grown men don't do fluff. Not the interesting ones, anyways.

Ever heard A Hot Long Summer? That's grown man shyt. The beats still bang and a lot of the songs are still interesting.

Stop it. I'm not deliberately doing sh!t. You implicitly stated that All About You has no atmosphere and it's immature and also implied that Rae should be ashamed to be putting music like that out at his age. Wrong on all counts. That track may not rival their work during their prime but it ain't "disposable fluff". Not once have I heard anyone call it fluff or anything similar. Some n!ggas like it, some don't. But you're the only one I've witnessed calling it fluff.
 

SirBiatch

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Stop it. I'm not deliberately doing sh!t. You implicitly stated that All About You has no atmosphere and it's immature and also implied that Rae should be ashamed to be putting music like that out at his age. Wrong on all counts. That track may not rival their work during their prime but it ain't "disposable fluff". Not once have I heard anyone call it fluff or anything similar. Some n!ggas like it, some don't. But you're the only one I've witnessed calling it fluff.

I'm a real nikka. I speak my mind. Hip hop is built on that.

I just think a lot of this stuff is weak and we're giving passes for mediocrity. This kinda shyt waters the game down and doesn't give guidance to the young ones.

It's all good. You like the track. I'm not fukking with it. Life goes on.
 

Billy Ocean

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It's all good. You like the track. I'm not fukking with it. Life goes on.

Basically. And you shoulda kept it at that instead of the extra sh!t about watering down the game and misguiding the youth. Let's not act like we don't know that over half of Rae sh!t throughout his career ain't about selling drugs, busting guns, killing n!ggas and other street sh!t, homie. He ain't exactly been KRS-One. Either you like the music or you don't, but don't misidentify the music as fluff and void of atmosphere just cause you ain't feeling it.
 

SirBiatch

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Basically. And you shoulda kept it at that instead of the extra sh!t about watering down the game and misguiding the youth. Let's not act like we don't know that over half of Rae sh!t throughout his career ain't about selling drugs, busting guns, killing n!ggas and other street sh!t, homie. He ain't exactly been KRS-One. Either you like the music or you don't, but don't misidentify the music as fluff and void of atmosphere just cause you ain't feeling it.

I'll say whatever the fukk I wanna say. Either read it or ignore it. I joined coli for stimulating convo, not to clap hands like seals. Not everyone's gonna agree with my opinion and that's the beauty of conversation. That's how I learn new perspectives.

My dude, I'm a Wu-tang fan. Do I really sound like someone who's trying to KRS him? I've not mentioned KRS at all. You're the one that brought him up.

All I'm saying is: this shyt is weak for a bunch of glaring reasons and he should step his game up. You don't agree. Cool. And you're welcome to argue with me. But don't say I can't say some shyt.
 

Billy Ocean

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I'll say whatever the fukk I wanna say. Either read it or ignore it. I joined coli for stimulating convo, not to clap hands like seals. Not everyone's gonna agree with my opinion and that's the beauty of conversation. That's how I learn new perspectives.

My dude, I'm a Wu-tang fan. Do I really sound like someone who's trying to KRS him? I've not mentioned KRS at all. You're the one that brought him up.

All I'm saying is: this shyt is weak for a bunch of glaring reasons and he should step his game up. You don't agree. Cool.

Its over. You don't like the sh!t. Good for you. I'm happy for ya, lil buddy.
 

Billy Ocean

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KANYE WEST BRINGS OUT RAEKWON & BIG SEAN, SAYS “U MAD” AT SURPRISE LONDON SHOW





kanye-west-raekwon-2015-03-04.png
 

Tommy Sheppard

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I don't understand how anybody is saying rae is trying to cater to the young crowd which he is doing to a extent but he really hasn't dropped a wack project in years


ob4cl2 dropped 6 years ago and he has dropped nothing but solid albums and tapes in that span, outside of ghost he is the most consistent wu member.
 

The Dust King

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But it's an old Sauce Money beat, which proves my point that most hip hop artists made more grown man shyt when they were kids.



actually your point was not proven with that example for a few reasons.

1) beats are resampled and rediscovered all the time. rapping over old samples doesnt make you better or worse its the listeners preference. you identify with that beat which is why you like that song better.

some might say that beat is played out and has been sampled 100 times already and that song was a throwaway and not original or creative. i could understand that point of view as well.

2) sauce money/jay-z has nothing to do wit this. neither does clark kent the guy who made that or kaygee from naughty by nature who used it 3 years before that or genovese the sicilian 3 years before that.

even calling it a sauce money beat shows you arent familiar with it.

the point you were tryin to make is raw unadultered passion cannot be replicated in later years but in some minute cases can be duplicated.

so yeah i understood that but the "old song" thing was just babble and ghostface has love songs that supercede camay in every way possible.

if raekwon is being judged on his sellout nature then he is doing a good job, homey is still keepin it 100 with us even when;

kanye got him on one of the biggest albums ever

jayz is posin in pics wit him

he arguing with his mentor/leader/friend Rza/professor X (and keepin it respectful as well)

single handedly keepin the WU brand alive

is on songs with justin beiber

and still keeps it less than PC.

:salute: the gods dont throw rocks at them
 
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SirBiatch

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actually your point was not proven with that example for a few reasons.

some might say that beat is played out and has been sampled 100 times already and that song was a throwaway and not original or creative. i could understand that point of view as well.

That's a very fair point. I could agree with that.

2) sauce money has nothing to do wit this. neither does clark kent the guy who made that or kaygee from naughty by nature who used it 3 years before that or genovese the sicilian 3 years before that.

even calling it a sauce money beat shows you arent familiar with it.

You're right. I'm not familiar with the history of that beat but thanks for making it known.

With that said, I don't think it's fair to get caught up in the example as opposed to my overall point. And maybe I didn't pick the best of examples. All I'm trying to say is... Rae came into the game with incredible, passionate and unique music. But more importantly, it was cinematic and nuanced as hell. It was way bigger than just "gangster rap". I'm not saying that he should do kung fu shyt all the time or "pyrex vision". I'm saying: "keep the cinema and the appreciation of nuance that makes you so irresistible, but expand it into different topics/settings, etc."

To me, the 86 beat is more cinematic, has a better groove and is more interesting than the "All About You" beat. It's the kind of beat you can paint a picture to. And that's why we loved Rae in the first place. The "All About You" has a dull canvas and the picture Rae paints is dull given his age, his sheer creativity and experience.

The '86' sample might be played out. Fair enough.

My overall point is: don't regress. Evolve.
 

The Dust King

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My overall point is: don't regress. Evolve.

this was understood.

so according to you raekwon and ghostface have devolved?

either way i would like to point out that ghostface (sony) and raekwon went through what nas went through in 98 for I AM regarding bootlegged sessions. it happened to ghostface for bulletproof wallets (2000) and raekwon lex diamonds story (2001)

both those albums were pushed back a ton of times and tracklists were purged. raekwon came out 2 years after he was supposed to (2003) and ghostface came out 1 year later (2001).

an artists potential is as great as his debut, its just different factors take into play.

its quite possible that ghostface and raekwon never changed and make the same music but its the industry, the culture, technology and other things that changed and effected rae and ghost (and many artists) thought and creative processes
 

Piff Perkins

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I don't like the Estelle track but I don't agree it's out of Rae's league. It's not him over some pop rap beat...that sounds like an r&b rap track.

My problem is moreso that I don't really think anyone is looking to Rae to make a love song at this point. Same way no one buys a new AC/DC album looking for political tracks...they want those stadium anthem tracks. Likewise Rae fans want a certain sound from Rae. Not necessarily drug mafioso stuff, but you know: Rae talking slick, being smooth, dope shyt, etc. I'd love to see Rae do more non-mafioso shyt, so I don't think he should stay in one chamber. I'm just saying I'd rather hear him over dark production, energetic raps, etc. I don't want to hear love songs from dude.
 

mson

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I don't like the Estelle track but I don't agree it's out of Rae's league. It's not him over some pop rap beat...that sounds like an r&b rap track.

My problem is moreso that I don't really think anyone is looking to Rae to make a love song at this point. Same way no one buys a new AC/DC album looking for political tracks...they want those stadium anthem tracks. Likewise Rae fans want a certain sound from Rae. Not necessarily drug mafioso stuff, but you know: Rae talking slick, being smooth, dope shyt, etc. I'd love to see Rae do more non-mafioso shyt, so I don't think he should stay in one chamber. I'm just saying I'd rather hear him over dark production, energetic raps, etc. I don't want to hear love songs from dude.

How many of them joints has he made in his career. Let him breath a little bit.
 

SirBiatch

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so according to you raekwon and ghostface have devolved?

Yeah. Their stuff doesn't hit nearly as hard with 1/3 of the energy. And that's a problem because Wu-tang were very energetic, very funky and coasted more on energy than well-thought rhymes (like a Nas).

It's hard to hear "The Grain" and then listen to Ghost's new shyt.

They've stagnated. Which is a form of devolving. If the energy's gonna go down, I need something to go up. Go the trip-hop direction or something, which still offers that Wu eerie and beautiful atmosphere but more chilled. The concepts should go up and the breadth of topics should go up. The reflection should be more.

Billy and I talked about this, but I was really looking forward to Wizard of Poetry. When "Baby" dropped, I thought: 'oh, this is cool. Ghost is evolving'. But the album wasn't well received.

its quite possible that ghostface and raekwon never changed and make the same music but its the industry, the culture, technology and other things that changed and effected rae and ghost (and many artists) thought and creative processes

For sure. I would love to hear from them directly if this is the case. I wouldn't doubt it.
 
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