Raekwon and Ghostface is the only reason street nikkas fukked with Wu-Tang Clan

[Billy Ocean]

They've squashed their beef though.

I know. Fif been cool with them for a minute

 

[Newark88]

They definitely went "pop" on the second album. Meth talked about this before. Videos where they were using CGI to transform into swarms of bees and climbing buildings like Spider-Man, etc. LOL!! They got away from focusing on putting out raw Hip Hop. Even visuals. Which is why RZA said that Forever was when they started making "more accessible records". They turned into MTV darlings then.

What ODB was doing with Mariah was cool. That's a feature. He made that song doper with the remix. That wasn't his track. Meth's joint with Mary was the same because that was a street record that he just happened to get a Grammy on. But it was raw. But once your own music starts getting softer and the same outlets that didn't embrace you as much before, start championing you after you crossover, that's when you know you've switched and gone pop. You've lost your edge.

It's not hate though. Typically when the white audiences start buying into sh*t, it's way after the fact, and when the artists or group isn't making the kinda sh*t they were before. It's not a hipster thing because hipster culture is poser culture. This is more about purists. Black audiences don’t want their artists to switch up to bring in people who weren't f*cking with the music at its purest or the beginning. That's why "crossing over" was such a sin in Hip Hop. You're not supposed to change your sh*t to bring in more people. They're just supposed to support you the way you are, not expect you to change to gain more coverage and ears. That's always been Hip Hop 101.

Yea by 97, they were all over MTV with the Forever rollout. Not a knock but people talk about the shiny suit era that Puff took Hip Hop mainstream. But that same year, Wu was just as mainstream as Puffy and Bad Boy.

 

[Newark88]

"Pop" in essence means popular music. And although Wu makes music that's not traditionally in the same vein as your normal pop acts, in 1997 they were mainstream. When Forever dropped, I remember MTV doing a 1 hour special on the Wu just like they did with Puff when No Way Out dropped.

 

[Piff Perkins]

Like I said, these nikkas is just talking out the ass. There's nothing pop about Triumph or ANYTHING on Wutang Forever. The group didn't do anything that would be considered pop until Gravel Pit on the W album. None of the shyt they're saying is accurate/factual.

I dunno how to feel about it. I think the use of "pop" here is less about the music on that album and more about the packaging. The Wu, and virtually all mainstream rap at the time, were being packaged and presented for white America consumption via MTV, Rolling Stone, commercials, etc. In ways that simply weren't happening in 1993. The increased budgets, more elaborate videos, performance appearances, etc were all geared at getting white kids to buy the records. I don't think there's anything wrong with that obviously but I can see why someone would argue this was an undeniable change in direct for the Wu and many other artists. Quite a shift from doing interviews with Yo MTV Raps to doing them with...Carson Daly.

Speaking of Daly, yesterday I saw a clip from one of those 90s MTV shows where he interviews Tom Morello from RATM. No one would call RATM's music "pop" but nu metal videos were regularly presented alongside Britney Spears and N'SYNC on MTV at the time. Major labels wanted little white kids to see this stuff on MTV and then go out to buy it. And that included more "subversive" music like the Wu or RATM. Who coincidentally did a tour together during that same period of time. So it's less about "pop" as in poppy music and moreso about "pop" as in going mainstream, being on mainstream platforms, and getting mainstream attention as a means of introducing them to white audiences.

 

[TripleAgent]

They rap about science and math and shyt so it makes dumb ppl look smarter than they actually are.

Dipset currently suffers from inevitable 'corny old rapper syndrome' which is normal and unavoidable

"Science and math" = 5% knowledge, not actual science and math

 

[u mad son?]

Crazy, I had a post in here from 8 years ago talking about Ghost and Rae back story

this year I see them and Nas on stage performing Eye for an Eye and Verbal Intercourse together

thats one of those hip hop moments that will never be forgotten, i lost the footage from my phone when I was there that night but ill never forget the visuals

Ghost was veloured down like the shiek of iran in all orange tracksuit
Rae rocking blue bomber Ny jacket
Nas rocking some leather jacket and jeans shyt

Ghost owned that stage ... bruddah was swinging from left and right and dropping his lyrics with much style.

Ill never forget that shyt

 

[Atsym Sknyfs]

I always thought U God was the hardest

Yep .. he was called golden arms for a reason... He was nice with the hands and didnt need weapons. (it was a play on the kid with the golden arms)

 

[Billy Ocean]

I dunno how to feel about it. I think the use of "pop" here is less about the music on that album and more about the packaging. The Wu, and virtually all mainstream rap at the time, were being packaged and presented for white America consumption via MTV, Rolling Stone, commercials, etc. In ways that simply weren't happening in 1993. The increased budgets, more elaborate videos, performance appearances, etc were all geared at getting white kids to buy the records. I don't think there's anything wrong with that obviously but I can see why someone would argue this was an undeniable change in direct for the Wu and many other artists. Quite a shift from doing interviews with Yo MTV Raps to doing them with...Carson Daly.

Speaking of Daly, yesterday I saw a clip from one of those 90s MTV shows where he interviews Tom Morello from RATM. No one would call RATM's music "pop" but nu metal videos were regularly presented alongside Britney Spears and N'SYNC on MTV at the time. Major labels wanted little white kids to see this stuff on MTV and then go out to buy it. And that included more "subversive" music like the Wu or RATM. Who coincidentally did a tour together during that same period of time. So it's less about "pop" as in poppy music and moreso about "pop" as in going mainstream, being on mainstream platforms, and getting mainstream attention as a means of introducing them to white audiences.

I feel you Piff but I more associate going Pop with a shift in your music to be more palatable to the general public. Wu music was still street, full of 5 percent idealism, little to no hooks and slang heavy. If anything, even more so. There even was a lil civil war in NY Hip Hop between Wu and Badboy. On Wu Forever they were calling Badboy style rap "rap and bullshyt" and telling nikkas to get out their face with that shyt.

Like you said, money was definitely getting circulated more throughout Hip Hop but I think that's the natural progression of things when huge corporations get involved. Bigger budgets, grander videos, etc...was gonna happen eventually. But Wu music didn't change to appeal to wider audiences...the audience just came. And MTV and them had to jack it because they became too big.

 

[$cam-U-Well_Jack$on]

nikkas mad as fukk.

 

[KingsOfKings]

 

[Big Boss]

Facts

 

[Guvnor]

Yep .. he was called golden arms for a reason... He was nice with the hands and didnt need weapons. (it was a play on the kid with the golden arms)

Wasn't he someone who they said would hustle hard, sell drugs and etc.

shyt Al of them probably sold drugs at some point.

 

[Atsym Sknyfs]

Wasn't he someone who they said would hustle hard, sell drugs and etc.

shyt Al of them probably sold drugs at some point.

yes... but the golden arms name had to do with his fighting skills... he was nice with the hands.

 

[SunZoo]

This thread reminded me that Sir Biatch used to post here lol

 

[Crumple]

It's between Wu-Tang, Public Enemy and NWA for best group ever imo, so trust this isn't at all a diss thread. However, a lot of street nikkas wasn't fukking with that Kung-Fu/different sounding shyt. Rae and Ghost were the street element. They talked about the real life drug dealings, the poverty all that extra grimey shyt that nikkas dealt with on a daily. nikkas getting shot, stabbed, drug wars etc...

I can see that. But once I heard they were all felons. Not that that's a good thing. But they all could have acted grimy. They are all conscience centered tho. They all have heart including Rae and Ghost.

To note, I knew real heavy drug dealers that DID like Kung Fu. And Kool Keith for that manner. Those are facts.

Best dressed, and best hip hop group to this day.