RA The Rugged Man: LL Cool J is a Better Rapper Than 2Pac

[DANJ!]

raises great points about the LL shyt... and about the GOAT discussion itself when nikkas get to talkin' about all-time but "all-time" only applies to their favorite era.

Also true is what I say all the time about Pac and BIG... they both had the benefit of dying while in their primes. They're greats in their own right, incredible, legendary, canonized MCs no doubt. But some of these same guys that people disregard now, like LL for example- if they had died in their primes, they would've been just as heralded. Look how many people suddenly became Big L fans when he died- cause he's considered the guy who could have been a top 5... the only legendary rappers who never seem to get their proper respect are those who hung around long enough for their careers to take a downward turn.

 

[Ziploc]

To appreciate what LL means to the culture from a technical and influentional standpoint you cannot debate this with someone who was not there to witness and see firsthand his choke hold on the game.Pac influenced men more as he seems to be a stereotype for what is now considered architypical "rapper posture".LL was that ladies man before Pac.As far as skill goes,old LL was a better technical rapper then Pac but LL started following trends once his dominance was over,Pac did not,he died.So what Pac would have become after his succes waned is the real question.Post Mr Smith LL was cringeworthy at times,his ghostwriters where phoning in verses cause some of those rhymes whereHow Pac would have navigated through a new generation of rappers we'll never know.

 

[SunZoo]

raises great points about the LL shyt... and about the GOAT discussion itself when nikkas get to talkin' about all-time but "all-time" only applies to their favorite era.

Also true is what I say all the time about Pac and BIG... they both had the benefit of dying while in their primes. They're greats in their own right, incredible, legendary, canonized MCs no doubt. But some of these same guys that people disregard now, like LL for example- if they had died in their primes, they would've been just as heralded. Look how many people suddenly became Big L fans when he died- cause he's considered the guy who could have been a top 5... the only legendary rappers who never seem to get their proper respect are those who hung around long enough for their careers to take a downward turn.

You can take Pac out the equation if you want.

If we are being objective here look at Rakim...I mean yes, the architect but if you wanna take a wide lens to it, why do people really hold him in so much higher esteem than LL? He was the first superstar, he had hits, he had skill (he wasn't Rakim but he was nice enough for that time frame @StillNotSoft ) and CRAZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY longevity in comparison. Ra was essentially getting called old school by nikkas that should have been considered his contemporaries. LL has a lot of advantages yet still he doesn't usually get a nod over Ra. I often see cats like KGR Scarface, even Kane get top 10 nods before LL's name comes up.

So this isn't some sort of 2pac effect where in which LL gets degraded because of Pac fans or marketing or any of that other bullshyt. It's not an era thing or even the fact that he hung around too long. I just think he was the prototype for the front runner type artist ala Nelly or Drake, guys who ultimately got more defined by their stardom rather than lyrics/content.

- He wasn't kicking knowledge
- Was rarely personal
- Was skilled but not the one in his era advancing the craft
- Wasn't really a street artist
- Had women as a demographic in his pocket

Following that path will give you a chance to make hits but very little chance to become endearing. Nobody is going to care about you unless the music is playing.

 

[CashmereThoughts]

I turned him off when he kept mentionion hot97 like they matter in 2017

 

[mobbinfms]

All that I need Love stuff was cool, beyond but it was remedial rap to me. His best songs are Headsprung, Hey Lover and Doin It

All the classic LL joints out there and these are your favorites??

 

[Greenhornet]

Pac dissed LL cool J multiple times and Todd Smith did nothing


ill wait ... ra the rugged man is trash too regardless of what anyone says ... the way he changes his voice is wiggerdom squared.

a good example of me flipping this shyt is if someone said Ra the rugged man is better than biggie technically ... when biggie shyt on him and he didnt respond like nah son, you are fukking garbage and a gimmick. Fake shyt will never be on the same level as real shyt. LL was dope but to me he has always been a caricature ... even of just raw hiphop in the beginning. I think Im bad is my favorite video of all time (top 5) but he has always been a wave rider

 

[Greenhornet]

does this make canibus better than pac by default?


whos better LLcoolJ or KRS-One?

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Pac dissed LL cool J multiple times and Todd Smith did nothing


ill wait ... ra the rugged man is trash too regardless of what anyone says ... the way he changes his voice is wiggerdom squared.

a good example of me flipping this shyt is if someone said Ra the rugged man is better than biggie technically ... when biggie shyt on him and he didnt respond like nah son, you are fukking garbage and a gimmick. Fake shyt will never be on the same level as real shyt. LL was dope but to me he has always been a caricature ... even of just raw hiphop in the beginning. I think Im bad is my favorite video of all time (top 5) but he has always been a wave rider

Pac was dead when those disses came out

 

[Grand Eeezus Maxwell]

He is a better rapper than pac.

 

[Still Benefited]

You can take Pac out the equation if you want.

If we are being objective here look at Rakim...I mean yes, the architect but if you wanna take a wide lens to it, why do people really hold him in so much higher esteem than LL? He was the first superstar, he had hits, he had skill (he wasn't Rakim but he was nice enough for that time frame @StillNotSoft ) and CRAZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY longevity in comparison. Ra was essentially getting called old school by nikkas that should have been considered his contemporaries. LL has a lot of advantages yet still he doesn't usually get a nod over Ra. I often see cats like KGR Scarface, even Kane get top 10 nods before LL's name comes up.

So this isn't some sort of 2pac effect where in which LL gets degraded because of Pac fans or marketing or any of that other bullshyt. It's not an era thing or even the fact that he hung around too long. I just think he was the prototype for the front runner type artist ala Nelly or Drake, guys who ultimately got more defined by their stardom rather than lyrics/content.

- He wasn't kicking knowledge
- Was rarely personal
- Was skilled but not the one in his era advancing the craft
- Wasn't really a street artist
- Had women as a demographic in his pocket

Following that path will give you a chance to make hits but very little chance to become endearing. Nobody is going to care about you unless the music is playing.

Might as well wrap this thread up

The rest will be just a bunch of nikkas talking about how horrible Pac stans,with little to no arfument other than "bu bu but LL was the architect"....for all the reasons you just named i think its safe to say LL aint build the pyramid...plus Run DMC came first so it aint like he built from the ground up.

Better architects came after LL who get more props then LL all the time....just add Pac to the list too since he was a better architect who advanced the culture more than LL....his design was more complex than LL,nikkas still cant figure out how to copy it down to a science,theres always missing ingredients

And If you break it down like a food pyramid,Pacs pyramid had more food groups then LL.


Letw just all say a few nice things about LL before we get out of here.


-what he did at only 16 was crazy and adds to his legend,easily greatest child star of all time.
-even though i think being a kid played a part,he was probaly the most natural emcee ever.
-I need love is still the best love song in hiphop history.

 

[FeloniousMonk]

Was this ever a issue?

Its not even a debate

LL

 

[Champ_KW]

Again i'm not listening to someone who wasn't there when Radio dropped.


You do realize u just exposed yourself.

When Radio dropped LL was the biggest and best rapper alive. You dont know that cuz u weren't there.

LL became the prototype in 85.


First rapper to rock Jordans on an album. LL paved the way for the hoods obsession with Jordans

Ok....come on man. I dig most of what you're saying. But you don't have to give him credit for everything to bolster your argument. What's next? Credit for the "hood's obsession" wearing straight legged dark denim jeans? It's cats in Florida that grew up on booty shake music that ain't never seen this damn cassette jacket that still love Jordans.

 

[Ronnie Lott]

not a fan of either

You finally can admit the hate you have for Pac

Hit em up really damaged y'all

 

[Farrinto]

Pac dissed LL cool J multiple times and Todd Smith did nothing

LL was sitting behind Pac at the MTV awards in 96 and Pac didn't do anything to him.

 

[Afromaticz]

who cares about RA's opinion on Pac anyway his hatred for dude has been well documented over the years







With that being said....LL one of the GOATs