Put Some Hornacek On Our Game: 2016 New York Knicks Offseason Thread
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storyteller
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Short Version: What a difference a few days off to practice and rest the legs can make. Melo is on back to back strong performances for the first time in a while, which was exactly what we needed. AA continues to look like a bargain signing and very worthy third scoring option (stepped up last night). KP is still killing it. Our bench is starting to get going again too (I just wish Grant could get his minutes in there, he was picking things up somewhat). It's helped playing weaker teams and we still have a ton to work on, but there are a lot of good signs here. We're still way too relient on three guys, which is why the second half bogged down and became a dogfight; but there are sustained runs and with three potential go-to's, Fish can usually find a hot hand for the rest to feed off of.
Melo: 20, 15, 9, 1 and 1. He was an efficient scorer most of the way, a real playmaker for others and feasted on the boards. He made some foolish passes that led to TO's, but dude that's almost a compliment because it shows just how much of the fever he caught for giving up the rock. His FG% tanked a bit late as the team was out of sorts without AA out there and he tried to make things happen while killing the clock. Overall this was a great performance, especially on the heels of the Blazers game he had. After bumping knees with Giannis, he seemed to completely give up on lateral movement defensively but it's back now and so is his quality defensive play.
KP: His three point range all but abandoned him and it took him a while to just step in and start gunning for easier jumpers, but his 11 points included jumpers, a cut for a dunk and FT's. He worked on boards but between Melo, Jose and Lance stepping up their rebounding his numbers dipped. He legitimately took over the game defensively for the entirety he was out there in the first half. 6 of 7 blocks came in that half and the Wolves were basically turned into a jump shooting squad. Second half, he didn't get the minutes at C (where he had thrived in the first) but he still just opens up a lot of the floor for the Wolves and they mainly stayed away from him inside. It was a really strong performance in a premium match-up. KAT showed more polish, but KP's defense in the first half really shined. 11,6 and 3 assists (his passing has improved a bit) along with those 7 blocks.
AA: Went ballistic on these guys, just couldn't miss. He needed 14 attempts to post 29 points through three point shooting, midrange shooting and post ups mainly. He was really solid on the defensive end and added 3 boards to his game too. Fish finally let Afflalo lead the second unit for a while and when half court sets were forced, he answered the bell by posting up LaVine and making things happen. A really great performance.
RoLo: KAT's athleticism and range really seemed to overwhelm him. He wasn't great on boards and couldn't keep KAT off 'em either. He didn't get out to the three point line either. I think he may have fared better matched with Dieng more often, but pure guessing there. His jumper was flat even though he did find openings out there. He also had some strange fouls where it looked like he just wanted to get into KAT's head (or was just frustrated). At this point, KP is making this guy's contract completely expendable and I believe teams will be interested. It'll be interesting to see if he becomes a trade chip.
Calderon: On nights when he's not protecting the ball or shooting, he's really easy to forget out there or just look at as a negative. 3 assists to 4 TO's is just awful and the opposite of what we're expecting from him. He did however, contribute 8 rebounds including a few chase downs that could have easily added to Minne's second chance opportunities even more. I won't pin Rubio's performance on him because Rubio used a lot of steals and fast breaks to do digits, plus our bigs let theirs shoot which bumped his assists even more. But this was a bad one for Jose.
D-Will: Was struggling to find ways to impact the game. Didn't kill us, but didn't contribute either.
KOQ: His 4 and 4 in 17 mins isn't reflecting how much energy he injected early on. He was a bit of a spark and his passing is always impressive for his size. He picked up some dumb fouls though and that restrained his minutes and play as the game went on.
Lance: Played really well, with a couple of head shake plays that you really just have to accept with the territory of this guy getting so many touches. His herky jerky style gets him to the line. He always hustles defensively. Last night he added rebounding to his game which meant that even if he shot poorly, he'd at least have been contributing. If he can start grabbing boards more consistently, he'll be a lot more reliable.
Seraphin: Got some spot minutes with KOQ's foul trouble. Didn't do too much with that time but also didn't hurt us at all and he was out there for some of our best passing sequences to be fair.
Sasha: After a brief two game run of respectable play he was back to being pretty bad out there. To be fair, he did frustrate Shabaaz into an elbow attempt that shoulda been a flagrant 2 and he's always good for a hustle play or two...but he wasn't good by any means.
Galloway: Found his scoring touch by not forcing anything and just letting the other scorers create unbalanced situations that he could jump on. His D is always there, best displayed in his chase down block that sent him into the fifth row. He worked on boards but only got 3. He kinda took over where Calderon was missing in terms of controlling the ball in a reliable fashion and just moving it within the system. 12,6 and 3 on 5-11 (big improvement from lately) with 1,1 in defensive spots. He was really good last night and probably the easiest contributor to sleep on because he was mainly just a steady presence without doing the big stand out thing.
Fish: Rode hot hands, staggered the key guys and his decision to keep these guys practicing seemed to pay off with crisper off ball movement. Having fresher legs all around definitely helped him too. He still didn't utilize the best timing on his TO's during runs and the system still falls apart unless one of Melo, KP or AA is demanding extra attention; but staggering the line-ups goes a long way to helping this. Without foul trouble he'd have played 10 guys which I dig. My main criticisms are that Grant needs minutes to develop and Sasha isn't good enough to rob him of those reps and that he didn't go back to the KP as a C crew fast enough after the bomb that crew dropped in the second quarter. Can't blame him for having to sit AA in the fourth when he was cooking (the guy had played serious minutes keeping us in tact); but he pulled AA and instantly played both Melo and KP which is all you could ask for. I'm not gonna bag on his post game comments, in game he did a pretty good job. He's showing some improvements.
Random: LaVine's game isn't aesthetically pleasing, which is weird for a guy who is so athletically gifts. Wiggins and Towns are a great one-two of youth...and how about Gorgui Dieng? He's a promising big man imo.
Melo: 20, 15, 9, 1 and 1. He was an efficient scorer most of the way, a real playmaker for others and feasted on the boards. He made some foolish passes that led to TO's, but dude that's almost a compliment because it shows just how much of the fever he caught for giving up the rock. His FG% tanked a bit late as the team was out of sorts without AA out there and he tried to make things happen while killing the clock. Overall this was a great performance, especially on the heels of the Blazers game he had. After bumping knees with Giannis, he seemed to completely give up on lateral movement defensively but it's back now and so is his quality defensive play.
KP: His three point range all but abandoned him and it took him a while to just step in and start gunning for easier jumpers, but his 11 points included jumpers, a cut for a dunk and FT's. He worked on boards but between Melo, Jose and Lance stepping up their rebounding his numbers dipped. He legitimately took over the game defensively for the entirety he was out there in the first half. 6 of 7 blocks came in that half and the Wolves were basically turned into a jump shooting squad. Second half, he didn't get the minutes at C (where he had thrived in the first) but he still just opens up a lot of the floor for the Wolves and they mainly stayed away from him inside. It was a really strong performance in a premium match-up. KAT showed more polish, but KP's defense in the first half really shined. 11,6 and 3 assists (his passing has improved a bit) along with those 7 blocks.
AA: Went ballistic on these guys, just couldn't miss. He needed 14 attempts to post 29 points through three point shooting, midrange shooting and post ups mainly. He was really solid on the defensive end and added 3 boards to his game too. Fish finally let Afflalo lead the second unit for a while and when half court sets were forced, he answered the bell by posting up LaVine and making things happen. A really great performance.
RoLo: KAT's athleticism and range really seemed to overwhelm him. He wasn't great on boards and couldn't keep KAT off 'em either. He didn't get out to the three point line either. I think he may have fared better matched with Dieng more often, but pure guessing there. His jumper was flat even though he did find openings out there. He also had some strange fouls where it looked like he just wanted to get into KAT's head (or was just frustrated). At this point, KP is making this guy's contract completely expendable and I believe teams will be interested. It'll be interesting to see if he becomes a trade chip.
Calderon: On nights when he's not protecting the ball or shooting, he's really easy to forget out there or just look at as a negative. 3 assists to 4 TO's is just awful and the opposite of what we're expecting from him. He did however, contribute 8 rebounds including a few chase downs that could have easily added to Minne's second chance opportunities even more. I won't pin Rubio's performance on him because Rubio used a lot of steals and fast breaks to do digits, plus our bigs let theirs shoot which bumped his assists even more. But this was a bad one for Jose.
D-Will: Was struggling to find ways to impact the game. Didn't kill us, but didn't contribute either.
KOQ: His 4 and 4 in 17 mins isn't reflecting how much energy he injected early on. He was a bit of a spark and his passing is always impressive for his size. He picked up some dumb fouls though and that restrained his minutes and play as the game went on.
Lance: Played really well, with a couple of head shake plays that you really just have to accept with the territory of this guy getting so many touches. His herky jerky style gets him to the line. He always hustles defensively. Last night he added rebounding to his game which meant that even if he shot poorly, he'd at least have been contributing. If he can start grabbing boards more consistently, he'll be a lot more reliable.
Seraphin: Got some spot minutes with KOQ's foul trouble. Didn't do too much with that time but also didn't hurt us at all and he was out there for some of our best passing sequences to be fair.
Sasha: After a brief two game run of respectable play he was back to being pretty bad out there. To be fair, he did frustrate Shabaaz into an elbow attempt that shoulda been a flagrant 2 and he's always good for a hustle play or two...but he wasn't good by any means.
Galloway: Found his scoring touch by not forcing anything and just letting the other scorers create unbalanced situations that he could jump on. His D is always there, best displayed in his chase down block that sent him into the fifth row. He worked on boards but only got 3. He kinda took over where Calderon was missing in terms of controlling the ball in a reliable fashion and just moving it within the system. 12,6 and 3 on 5-11 (big improvement from lately) with 1,1 in defensive spots. He was really good last night and probably the easiest contributor to sleep on because he was mainly just a steady presence without doing the big stand out thing.
Fish: Rode hot hands, staggered the key guys and his decision to keep these guys practicing seemed to pay off with crisper off ball movement. Having fresher legs all around definitely helped him too. He still didn't utilize the best timing on his TO's during runs and the system still falls apart unless one of Melo, KP or AA is demanding extra attention; but staggering the line-ups goes a long way to helping this. Without foul trouble he'd have played 10 guys which I dig. My main criticisms are that Grant needs minutes to develop and Sasha isn't good enough to rob him of those reps and that he didn't go back to the KP as a C crew fast enough after the bomb that crew dropped in the second quarter. Can't blame him for having to sit AA in the fourth when he was cooking (the guy had played serious minutes keeping us in tact); but he pulled AA and instantly played both Melo and KP which is all you could ask for. I'm not gonna bag on his post game comments, in game he did a pretty good job. He's showing some improvements.
Random: LaVine's game isn't aesthetically pleasing, which is weird for a guy who is so athletically gifts. Wiggins and Towns are a great one-two of youth...and how about Gorgui Dieng? He's a promising big man imo.
KnickstapeCity
BigDikktapeCity :shaq:
Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
When you say KP was good defensively, why didn't you consider that he got abused on his match-up with Deing, like you considered that with Rolo guarding Towns? And KP usually doesn't even guard 1 person for an entire game. Why do blocks make KP a defender and not Rolo? Harden is good at steals, but no one would call him a defender. Rolo is a good defender. KP is just a good shot-blocker. He has a lot to learn about defense. I think KP did some good things out there, but I would argue that he was terrible defensively. In the same way, 'Melo did some good things out there (great defense, rebounding, hit his free throws, assisted, a block), but he also shot like trash because he was too passive and had 4 turnovers. I'm personally not impressed with near triple-doubles on 40% shooting. I'd call that a double-double.
Did you mean to say Arron "only" needed 14 shots for 29 points, or did you mean just what you said? Also, how did KP leapfrog over Arron for 2nd option when he can't even create his own shot and Arron has proven over and over to be the 2nd option? And right now, Arron is the 2nd leading scorer on the team with a much better fg% than KP. KP doesn't demand attention. Teams aren't afraid of his shooting. They leave him open all the time because they're focused on the 2 that do demand attention, and that's Arron and 'Melo.
Jose held Rubio to 4% below his average fg%.
I personally love watching LaVine shoot and dunk. I think Wiggins is trash. Terrible shooter. Average defender. League is pushing him by padding his stats at the line. Gets more free throws than Lj. That's just krazy to me.
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JerseyFinest!
All Star
Thread be live when the Knicks on a bad stretch
Dead when it's the opposite..
Dead when it's the opposite..
KnickstapeCity
BigDikktapeCity :shaq:
What's so hard to understand?
14 attempts. Out of those 14, 9 went in.
Black Boy Fly shot over 60% from the field or some shyt...
Edit: just saw that it's @ZemaPromos - never mind... Carry on... :mjlol1:
storyteller
Veteran
I meant he was good defensively. The bigs collapsed and stayed close to home consistently, which suggests a scheme wrinkle that was probably meant to take away driving options for Wiggins and LaVine. Dieng shoots 10% worse from the field from 16+ out, that's a shot they probably intended for him. You could see a similar wrinkle in the fact that Rubio was the man we doubled off of (regardless of who was on him) in a number of situations. Blocks don't make you a good defender, turning the opposition into a jump shooting team when they clearly preferred to slash does.
I get that you don't like Melo's game because FG% was poor, I don't mind a poor shooting % if a player is impacting the game in other ways. I think clock killing murdered his percentage more than anything, so I'm not hammering him on shooting.
AA ONLY needed 14 shots for 29 points, that's great efficiency. KP is second option because he averages the same number of attempts and boasts a higher USG%. AA with the second unit should catch up some, but as of right now, KP has been utilized more.
For real.
All he needs is two reliable post moves. Learn the baby hook and add a little fadeaway jumper. I'd love to see him take two strong dribbles into the defenders chest and end off with a strong post move. Nobody is stopping a jump hook from a guy who's 7'3".
Also the rotations are looking a LITTLE better. O'Quinn is getting more PT and we saw more of the Gallow, AA, Melo, KP, RoLo/Lance lineup... they even got to finish the game. I still don't understand how Sasha is getting minutes over Grant though.
Ultimately I just want everyone to stay healthy and to keep progressing. I love the fact Melo doesn't have to put up 25-30 points for this team to win.
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Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
Sounds like you just said blocks make you a defender with different words and I disagree and that's ok. He didn't turn them into a jump-shooting team. They continued to slash and that's why they got most of their free throw attempts and points in the paint in the 2nd half. When you say KP was good defensively, why didn't you consider that he got abused on his match-up with Deing, like you considered that with Rolo guarding Towns?
Seems like NY is trying to force KP as a 2nd option on offense when he hasn't earned that role. Arron averages more points on a much higher fg% and again, KP can't create his own shot. He should not be getting as many and more shots than Arron.
In my edit of my post, I added the following:
Jose held Rubio to 4% below his average fg%.
I personally love watching LaVine shoot and dunk. I think Wiggins is trash. Terrible shooter. Average defender. League is pushing him by padding his stats at the line. Gets more free throws than Lj. That's just krazy to me.
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Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
Right now, he needs to shoot jumpers because he can't dribble without turning the ball over and he has no other moves than the few post moves 'Melo taught him over the summer. Just like O'Quinn is better at jumpers than finishing at the rim. O'Quinn does seem to be improving with that, though. I think his jumper will come back. I think he still needs time to get his legs back from the brutal schedule. I thought after that schedule, they'd only practice 1 day. They practiced both days.
storyteller
Veteran
No, I'm saying help defense and rim defense make a defender...altering shots doesn't require the block numbers, just forcing teams to move away from the highest percentage shots in the building is a big help. RoLo got abused in his Towns match-up AND did not impact the opposition defensively on the help end or boards. KP's defensive impact came mainly in help defense and at the rim which allowed Dieng to go off from range, but I'll take Dieng shooting 16 footers over Wiggins, LaVine and others going off inside any time I can.
That's a fair assertion on KP vs AA...It's why I want AA in with the bench more, because Melo and KP have sky high Usage and AA will get more opportunities as a clear sixth man. KP doesn't fit that bill because he's not as good at creating his own shots yet. So I think the benefit is for both AA and the bench unit there.
Jose held Rubio to a statistically significant decrease in shooting, not major but slight. But Rubio's 12 assists, 10 boards and 8 steals can lead people to look at Jose as the problem in that match-up and that's also why I made sure to mention I won't pin a strong overall performance on Rubio. It wasn't Calderon's defense that hurt us. His TO's and lack of production elsewhere were why the performance grades out as poor.
Victim of Racism
I'm a brehette
KP didn't force Minny to move away from the highest percentage shots in the building. They continued to slash and that's why they got most of their free throw attempts and points in the paint in the 2nd half. Although Rolo didn't do well on the boards, KP rebounded like a forward when he's taller than most centers and with a much longer wingspan. He did not rebound the ball well. Only 6 boards. You said it was the guards boarding that prevented KP from boarding well, but then you blame Rolo for barely boarding. At least Rolo's box outs for others do hinder his boarding. You seem very biased. And now, you're making excuses for KP not guarding his man.
Rolo's block meant nothing? His 1.1 block average is 43rd in the league.
If anyone should go to the bench, it's KP, not Arron, so he can guard weaker centers and stop taking possessions from Arron. Gallo can assist him.
The 4% decrease that Jose held Rubio to isn't slight. It's good for 82nd in the league. The steals were partly Jose's fault because he turned the ball over a lot. It was also 'Melo's fault for making dumb passes and KP's fault for turning the ball over 3 times. The assists weren't anyone's fault. That team is the 10th best ppg and 13th best fg% team in the league. They got shooters over there.
Miles Davis
Prince of Darkness
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KnickstapeCity
BigDikktapeCity :shaq:
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
storyteller vs Zema has me like 