Positives and Negatives from The Invasion

[richaveli83]

I was a bigger WCW fan than WWF in the 90s so I really didn't see any positives. The only positives that I could think of was guys like Booker T, Kanyon, Lance Storm, etc got to keep making a living. Vince should have put ego aside and threw the bag at Nash, Hogan, Goldberg, Steiner, Sting, and Flair(earlier) to come in and do the invasion properly. With the exception of Sting, they all became WWF employees a year or so later. If you were a wrestling fan in the 90s and you mentioned WCW you thought of Flair, Sting, Goldberg, etc not Hugh Morris, Mike Awesome, etc.

 

[reigun]

Being a WWE only kid who had only really been watching wrestling for about a year before this angle, I remember thinking the Alliance guys were the biggest fukking losers. Booker T and RVD were the major exceptions, but I always felt weird cause I knew I wasn't "supposed" to like them. I also liked Hurricane cause he was funny.

Looking back at it now, I can see it was Cokeboy doing Cokeboy things. Probably left a lot of money on the table too.

I was always #ChristianGang even back in the day. He was just clearly the better performer at all aspects of wrestling. I guess Edge was taller and had better abs and women thought his caveman face was cuter or something. Christian should have had Edge's career.

I'm probably the rare person around here that actually likes Edge, but I find it hard to argue. Christian deserved so much more than what he got.

 

[Cartier Murphy]

At the time, it was pretty fun. One of the most chaotic years in both company and industry history, and that definitely spilled over onto the shows themselves. As a kid I still found it weird that WCW was a skeleton crew of losers, with the guys who I associated with the company like Sting or Goldberg MIA. Even by 2001 the only WCW guys I remember seeing and being like wow those are legit WCW talents were Booker and DDP (who were made to look like losers). I do think it’s weird how the company themselves rarely ever revisit or mention that time period often, almost as if in a way they know they fukked up with that angle.

 

[Playaz Eyez]

At the time, it was pretty fun. One of the most chaotic years in both company and industry history, and that definitely spilled over onto the shows themselves. As a kid I still found it weird that WCW was a skeleton crew of losers, with the guys who I associated with the company like Sting or Goldberg MIA. Even by 2001 the only WCW guys I remember seeing and being like wow those are legit WCW talents were Booker and DDP (who were made to look like losers). I do think it’s weird how the company themselves rarely ever revisit or mention that time period often, almost as if in a way they know they fukked up with that angle.

That’s exactly why they don’t revisit it. It was one of the biggest potential money makers in history and they totally bombed on it. No one wants to be associated with their losses, especially something i know was one of the biggest losses ever .

 

[OmegaK2099]

Everybody kept checking the rafters for sting but

 

[JOHN.KOOL]

If you were a WCW stan i could see how it sucked

but i never was a fan of WCW, i enjoyed NWO for a small amount of time till Stone GOAT started crushing buildings

so the Invasion was not that bad to me It showcased how trash WCW wrestlers were minus Booker T

The most tragic thing was Stephanie taking control of ECW and Taz being worthless

But WCW wrestlers weren't trash, truth is Vince didn't really want any to succeed. Chuck Palumbo and Sean O'Haire were a great tag team and should have been better utilised, so were Kronik who apparently were released because of one bad PPV match against the brothers of destruction who have had countless bad PPV matches. Vince just was looking for an excuse to bury WCW talent, he didn't like them or believe in them and one botxh was enough to get them written off as if WWE wrestlers never botched. DDP was buried and DDP was a star.

They released Buff Bagwell after one bad match and buff bagwell had big potential and was a decent worker. They buried Chris Kanyon who was a fantastic worker.

Vince refused to treat WCW and ECW stars like equals to the WWE stars and that's why the Alliance angle sucked. Even without the biggest names if built up correctly an Alliance 5 of Booker T, DDP, RVD, Rhyno and Kanyon should and could have been built up to be a formidable 5 against a WWE 5 considering the level of work of those wrestlers and their positions within the promotions they came from.

 

[Mr. Manhattan]

But WCW wrestlers weren't trash, truth is Vince didn't really want any to succeed. Chuck Palumbo and Sean O'Haire were a great tag team and should have been better utilised, so were Kronik who apparently were released because of one bad PPV match against the brothers of destruction who have had countless bad PPV matches. Vince just was looking for an excuse to bury WCW talent, he didn't like them or believe in them and one botxh was enough to get them written off as if WWE wrestlers never botched. DDP was buried and DDP was a star.

.

couldnt draw a penny

 

[stro]

couldnt draw a penny

Maybe they could have down the line had Vince treated them like stars and actually made them look like anything other than complete geeks who no one should ever care about. They were basically the default templates for what Vince wanted out of developmental guys and he killed them on the spot for lulz.

 

[JOHN.KOOL]

couldnt draw a penny

First off they were popular in WCW.

No one other than the major major stars is drawing any real money and there are few major major stars on the roster. Rosters and companies are kept afloat by people like Palumbo and O'Haire who are great pro wrestlers and are there for your eventual mega stars to work with.

How much does Seth Rollins draw? How much did CM punk draw? How much did Shawn Michaels draw huh? I remember house shows and PPVs being down during those 90s HBK years.

 

[stro]

The draw topic makes no sense for the Invasion as 2001 WWF is the biggest and fastest drop off in the history of the business. The drop off was faster and bigger for WWF in 2001 than it was for WCW in 1999/2000. The numbers from the Observer Rewinds are staggering. It was like a 40/50% drop in everything (ratings, house shows, TV audience, PPV buys, merch) over the course of about 7-8 months. No one was a draw anymore in comparison to pre-WM 17.

 

[reigun]

Everybody kept checking the rafters for sting but

Sting saw the jig coming from a mile away and knew to stay back. Probably watched the Invasion angle with the face for months.

 

[Playaz Eyez]

The draw topic makes no sense for the Invasion as 2001 WWF is the biggest and fastest drop off in the history of the business. The drop off was faster and bigger for WWF in 2001 than it was for WCW in 1999/2000. The numbers from the Observer Rewinds are staggering. It was like a 40/50% drop in everything (ratings, house shows, TV audience, PPV buys, merch) over the course of about 7-8 months. No one was a draw anymore in comparison to pre-WM 17.

I still have various WOW magazine issues, and there’s a chart in one of those pretty much detailing this. The WWF was 100% expecting everybody that was watching WCW to simply flock over to the WWF after they were purchased, and that’s not at all what happened. There was a slight bump in ratings then an immediate drop off. I couldn’t believe it at the time, but looking back at stuff later, I could understand.

 

[Mob H]

Sting saw the jig coming from a mile away and knew to stay back. Probably watched the Invasion angle with the face for months.

And even after all those years when he finally did make the jump, it still turned out exactly how he knew it would.

 

[stro]

A quick epilogue for The Invasion:

The Raw after Invasion:

Vince McMahon: Back to full blown heel authority figure, even though the WWF was the face side the night before and he ended that show triumphant.

Mick Foley: Quits in a cold opening on Vince's plane because he felt he was underutilized and his role was redundant with Vince on TV.

Kurt Angle: Started the angle as a comedy heel, turned comedy face, turned super intense top babyface for the Summer, immediately went back to comedy face, then turned heel and joined the Alliance, but turned face at Survivor Series revealing he was a double agent so his previous heel turn was all a ruse to disrupt the Alliance from the inside. Turns heel for real on Raw because no one but Vince appreciated what he did for the WWF.

Dudley Boys, Test, RVD, Christian: All were carried over for being champions, except for Test, who won an immunity battle royal. Vince hates them all, holds them being in the Alliance against them, punishes them. RVD was put into a handicap tables match against the Dudleys.

William Regal: Rehired for literally kissing Vince's ass in the middle of the ring.

Ric Flair: Debuts as the mystery person who bought Shane and Stephanie's WWF stock, making him 50/50 partners with Vince. Vetoes Vince's plan to strip Austin of the WWF Championship and hand it over to Kurt Angle.

Steve Austin: Immediately turns face, hits Vince with a stunner, drinks beers with Ric Flair.


The Smackdown after Invasion:

Ric Flair suggests unifying the WWF and World Championships at Vengeance, Vince concurs but wants to make it a mini tournament, both agree to terms and competitors.

Undertaker: Starts his heel turn because he was mad Vince didn't respect him enough to let him know Kurt was a double agent or be asked to be the mole himself.

Austin is doing full blown comedy with Regal, Regal/Test/Dudleys/Christian give Austin a beat down at the behest of Vince. Later in the show Vince celebrates with them and says they're like family, then gives Christian an IC title shot and the Dudleys a match with Rock/RVD that ends up being a handicap match with Jericho added.

Tazz: Rehired by Vince off screen for choking Heyman out the week before, still a heel, will be a competitor and announcer.


In short:

Vince, Angle immediately turn heel. Austin immediately turns face. Ric Flair comes in as 50/50 owner and they again have dueling face/heel authority figures. On Raw Vince hates the remaining Alliance guys and punishes them, on Smackdown he loves them and gives them preferential matches. Undertaker starts a heel turn where his issue is with heel Vince but he ends up taking it out on people like JR. The main core of Alliance guys minus Booker are still on TV anyway. Booker is hired back by Vince to go after Austin. Lance Storm gets hired back by getting odd jobs at venues they were running TV (what are the odds) and getting himself into matches where he'd get a contract if he won, and he ends up getting a countout win over Rock to be rehired. Everyone else (DDP, Hurricane, the ECW guys) either just kind of popped back up, trickled back on the C shows, or were part of the original brand split.

 

[Playaz Eyez]

A quick epilogue for The Invasion:

The Raw after Invasion:

Vince McMahon: Back to full blown heel authority figure, even though the WWF was the face side the night before and he ended that show triumphant.

Mick Foley: Quits in a cold opening on Vince's plane because he felt he was underutilized and his role was redundant with Vince on TV.

Kurt Angle: Started the angle as a comedy heel, turned comedy face, turned super intense top babyface for the Summer, immediately went back to comedy face, then turned heel and joined the Alliance, but turned face at Survivor Series revealing he was a double agent so his previous heel turn was all a ruse to disrupt the Alliance from the inside. Turns heel for real on Raw because no one but Vince appreciated what he did for the WWF.

Dudley Boys, Test, RVD, Christian: All were carried over for being champions, except for Test, who won an immunity battle royal. Vince hates them all, holds them being in the Alliance against them, punishes them. RVD was put into a handicap tables match against the Dudleys.

William Regal: Rehired for literally kissing Vince's ass in the middle of the ring.

Ric Flair: Debuts as the mystery person who bought Shane and Stephanie's WWF stock, making him 50/50 partners with Vince. Vetoes Vince's plan to strip Austin of the WWF Championship and hand it over to Kurt Angle.

Steve Austin: Immediately turns face, hits Vince with a stunner, drinks beers with Ric Flair.


The Smackdown after Invasion:

Ric Flair suggests unifying the WWF and World Championships at Vengeance, Vince concurs but wants to make it a mini tournament, both agree to terms and competitors.

Undertaker: Starts his heel turn because he was mad Vince didn't respect him enough to let him know Kurt was a double agent or be asked to be the mole himself.

Austin is doing full blown comedy with Regal, Regal/Test/Dudleys/Christian give Austin a beat down at the behest of Vince. Later in the show Vince celebrates with them and says they're like family, then gives Christian an IC title shot and the Dudleys a match with Rock/RVD that ends up being a handicap match with Jericho added.

Tazz: Rehired by Vince off screen for choking Heyman out the week before, still a heel, will be a competitor and announcer.


In short:

Vince, Angle immediately turn heel. Austin immediately turns face. Ric Flair comes in as 50/50 owner and they again have dueling face/heel authority figures. On Raw Vince hates the remaining Alliance guys and punishes them, on Smackdown he loves them and gives them preferential matches. Undertaker starts a heel turn where his issue is with heel Vince but he ends up taking it out on people like JR. The main core of Alliance guys minus Booker are still on TV anyway. Booker is hired back by Vince to go after Austin. Lance Storm gets hired back by getting odd jobs at venues they were running TV (what are the odds) and getting himself into matches where he'd get a contract if he won, and he ends up getting a countout win over Rock to be rehired. Everyone else (DDP, Hurricane, the ECW guys) either just kind of popped back up, trickled back on the C shows, or were part of the original brand split.

Vince was 100% trash for this lmaooo