Opinion on Rastafarianism

[Raptor]

Goddamn shyt like this is fukkin stupid. Nasser and Selassie is a terrible comparison mainly because Ethiopians of respectability would never claim Arab anything since they are our natural rivals.

Those "levels" to Blackness you speak of played no role at all when a European nation decided to invade us, twice. Those levels didn't matter when the British and French were plotting against each other in order to take over Ethiopia. The Ethiopians looked to a Haitian man to defend them diplomatically when these Europeans were coming for us. Mandela and other South Africans took training and refuge in Ethiopia. Selassie advocated for many of the African Independence movements. Breh, do you even understand why it was so difficult to end slavery in Ethiopia to begin with? Or are you just going to assume that the light skinneds were just #inherently and nothing else?

I'd look more into why Ethiopia was the type of country it was by the time Selassie took it over. You'll find that Europeans froze out the Ethiopians from the industrial technology that made Japan a capitalist power because it was a sovereign Black nation. You'll also find that the Ethiopian monarchs starting with Menelik II wanted to hire Africans of the Diaspora to positions of influence when the modernization of the country began only to be dissuaded and ultimately coerced by whites to do otherwise. Let me make it clear to you, Ethiopia and its monarchy were never some lowly worshipers of the European. We were raised to look down upon them as weak and undeserving of their influence. But good leaders also know how to be pragmatic and they did what they had to do under the circumstances given.

At this point, watching yall discuss the very complex dynamics of race/class within Ethiopian society is akin to watching kids in The Booth speculate over Tupac/Biggie shyt that happened 20+ years ago. I can suggest some books for yall to read so yall don't sound so basic all the time.

Explain race - class in Ethiopia then. Or atleast suggest some books so then we can learn a thing or two

 

[frankster]

Suggest the books.
I especially like the your reference to the Meiji restoration in Japan vis a vis Ethiopian own efforts at modernization......Western power still to this day is denying African countries the ability to develop technologically and modernize. Apartheid South Africa fall has given us an in road but if what occurred in Zimbabwe with land reform is taken as an indication. Then black South African should be mindful of the history of how western powers jealously guard technology from black nations. When the land and economy was to be given back Black Africans both were scuttled by the formerly white Rhodesian owners.

 

[frankster]

Explain race - class in Ethiopia then. Or atleast suggest some books so then we can learn a thing or two

I am no expert and would welcome correction and direction.
Star with the Amhara and the Oromo.

 

[humble Hermit]

By Marcus Garvey

The Failure of Emperor Haile Selassie

It is a pity that a man of the limited intellectual calibre and weak political character like Haile Selassie became Emperor of Abyssinia at so crucial a time in the political history of the world. Unfortunately, Abyssinia lost the controlling influence of a political personality of patriotic racial character like the late Menelik, whose loyalty to his race and devotion to his country excelled all his other qualities, to the extent that he was able to use that very strength to continuously safeguard the interests of the Ethiopian Empire. What he did so well to preserve, a cringing, white slave hero worshipper, visionless and disloyal to his country, threw away. This is the impression the serious minded political student forms of the conduct of the ex-Emperor of Abyssinia.

EVERY NEGRO ASHAMED

Every Negro who is proud of his race must be ashamed of the way in which Haile Selassie surrendered himself to the white wolves of Europe. These statements may be considered very severe, and in fact, they are. We could have been otherwise apologetic and sympathetic, but that would have been only if we were dealing with a Coptic Priest or a Religious Monk and not a[n] Emperor who held and presided over the political trust of twelve million people of his own country, and the political destiny of the entire Negro race. This little misguided Emperor could not realize that he held in his hands the political trust of the hundreds of millions of Negroes of the world, men and women, who were looking up toward the firm establishment of political sovereignty, and that Ethiopia, like Liberia and Haiti were to them prizes of glory to be perpetuated and strengthened in the maintenance of the dignity of that black race that other men have claimed to be incompetent, inferior and unworthy, which every black man must disprove.

LOOKED WITH HOPE
When the war started in Abyssinia all Negro nationalists looked with hope to Haile Selassie. They spoke for him, they prayed for him, they sung for him, they did everything to hold up his hands, as Aaron did for Moses; but whilst the Negro peoples of the world were praying for the success of Abyssinia this little Emperor was undermining the fabric of his own kingdom by playing the fool with white men, having them advising him[,] having them telling him what to do, how to surrender, how to call off the successful thrusts of his Rases against the Italian invaders. Yes, they were telling him how to prepare his flight, and like an imbecilic child he followed every advice and then ultimately ran away from his country to England, leaving his people to be massacred by the Italians, and leaving the serious white world to laugh at every Negro and repeat the charge and snare – “he is incompetent,” “we told you so.” Indeed Haile Selassie has proved the incompetence of the Negro for political authority, but thank God there are Negroes who realize that Haile Selassie did not represent the truest qualities of the Negro race. How could he, when he wanted to play white? How could he, when he surrounded himself with white influence? How could he, when in a modem world, and in a progressive civilization, he preferred a slave State of black men than a free democratic country where the black citizens could rise to the same opportunities as white citizens in their democracies?

TELL THE TRUTH
The truth must be told so that the white world will realize that it was not the pride of the Negro that surrendered in Abyssinia. It was the disloyalty of a single man who was too silly to take pride in his race, who played such a game as to disgrace the political integrity of a noble people. The Negroes of Abyssinia and of the world are satisfied however that Abyssinia was not conquered by Italy and the European forces of Mussolini. Abyssinia was only conquered by the black levies of Italy. The Askaris have really been the victors in Abyssinia. [Rodolfo] Graziani only marched into Addis Ababa after he had made sure of the advanced guard of the Askaris. Every battle that the Italians won in Abyssinia resulted from the advanced charge of the Askaris. It was black men fighting black men, and this was made possible in Abyssinia because the regime of Haile Selassie had given a bad taste to the mouth, not only of the blacks of Abyssinia but of those of the surrounding territories. They felt that they had a cause against the Amharic white loving Emperor who liked to chain and flog black men, and whose brutality to them gave Mussolini the cause to fool the world that he was bestowing a blessing upon the people of Abyssinia by freeing them.

NO SLAVES
It was a piece of impertinence to suggest that black men should be held as slaves. We must admit that we glorified Haile Selassie when the war started, fought his battles to win international support, but we ever felt deep down in our hearts that he was a slave master. We had hoped that if Abyssinia had won that we would have forced the Government of Abyssinia to free the black whom they held as slaves. We would have preferred this than seeing the country taken by Mussolini or any European power; but now that the country is temporarily lost and the Emperor has cowardly exiled himself, the truth must be told.

WHAT RIGHT HAS HE?
The future freedom of Abyssinia must be built upon the highest principles of democracy. That is why it is preferable for the Abyssinian Negroes and the Negroes of the world to work for the restoration and freedom of the country without the assistance of Haile Selassie, because at best he is but a slave master.

The Negroes of the Western World whose forefathers suffered for three hundred years under the terrors of slavery ought to be able to appreciate what freedom means. Surely they cannot feel justified in supporting any system that would hold their brothers in slavery in another country whilst they are enjoying the benefits of freedom elsewhere.

The Africans who are free can also appreciate the position of slaves in Abyssinia. What right has the Emperor to keep slaves when all the democratic sections of the world were free, when men had the right to live, to develop, to expand, to enjoy all the benefits of human liberty[?]

The Emperor who has been exiled in Europe must have seen the civilization of Europe. In England where he lives he sees that men are not flogged and chained and kicked because of their colour or because of their condition, but where true human liberty guarantees to every man the happiest pursuit he can bring to himself.

It has been reported that he is leaving England for Syria, where a large number of Abyssinian refugees are living. There is an interpretation that the decision to leave England and to live among “his people?” in Syria is to perpetuate his divine majesty in the presence of that king worship that he doesn’t get in England, where men look at others as equals and not as masters by divine right. In truth, the Emperor is out of place in democratic England. He wants to be once more in the environment of the feudal Monarch who looks down upon his slaves and serfs with contempt.

Except he changes the attitude of thinking himself better than the Negro who constitutes the larger number of Ethiopia and profit by the experience he has gained, he should not be a fit person to be in authority in the very country in which he was born.

After all, Haile Selassie is just an ordinary man like any other human being. What right has he to hold men as slaves? It is only the misfortune of the slaves that causes him to be a slave master. Negroes who have the dignity of their race at heart resent the impertinence of anyone holding the blacks as slaves.

Haile Selassie ought to realize this and abolish his foolish dream of being an Emperor of slaves and serfs and try to be an Emperor of noble men, and for him to be that he must himself be the noblest of them all.

He hasn’t proved his nobility in the war between Italy and Abyssinia. Ras Desta proved to be the Lord, the Nobleman of Ethiopia whilst Haile Selassie proved a cringing coward!

 

[AV Dicey]

Goddamn shyt like this is fukkin stupid. Nasser and Selassie is a terrible comparison mainly because Ethiopians of respectability would never claim Arab anything since they are our natural rivals.

Those "levels" to Blackness you speak of played no role at all when a European nation decided to invade us, twice. Those levels didn't matter when the British and French were plotting against each other in order to take over Ethiopia. The Ethiopians looked to a Haitian man to defend them diplomatically when these Europeans were coming for us. Mandela and other South Africans took training and refuge in Ethiopia. Selassie advocated for many of the African Independence movements. Breh, do you even understand why it was so difficult to end slavery in Ethiopia to begin with? Or are you just going to assume that the light skinneds were just #inherently and nothing else?

I'd look more into why Ethiopia was the type of country it was by the time Selassie took it over. You'll find that Europeans froze out the Ethiopians from the industrial technology that made Japan a capitalist power because it was a sovereign Black nation. You'll also find that the Ethiopian monarchs starting with Menelik II wanted to hire Africans of the Diaspora to positions of influence when the modernization of the country began only to be dissuaded and ultimately coerced by whites to do otherwise. Let me make it clear to you, Ethiopia and its monarchy were never some lowly worshipers of the European. We were raised to look down upon them as weak and undeserving of their influence. But good leaders also know how to be pragmatic and they did what they had to do under the circumstances given.

At this point, watching yall discuss the very complex dynamics of race/class within Ethiopian society is akin to watching kids in The Booth speculate over Tupac/Biggie shyt that happened 20+ years ago. I can suggest some books for yall to read so yall don't sound so basic all the time.

you aint had to neg me tho, I said no shade, I dont have a problem with the Ethiopian monarchy, despite Selassie doing his best Escobar impression having his own personal zoo and shyt while his subjects starved to death and in the process creating the current impression the west has of Africa. I just thought it was ironic that a pro-black movement decided to die on the hill of a monarchy that had a hard on for western civilization and claimed direct descent to the evil 'white' Jesus.

The 'levels' I spoke of was about 'Africanness', to put it rather bluntly, even those 'evil racist' Afrikaners are Africans, the continent is not monolithic. Many European nations invaded all corners of Africa multiple times. Belgium, Britain, France, Portugal all plotted against each other to take over Africa, ergo 'Scramble for Africa'. Mandela and em were helped by many African nations not least another famous 'African' leader Muammar Gadaffi who was a pre eminent pan african and a strong advocate of the former OAU. And Selassie's advocacy for the independence movements wasnt purely altruistic, he was well aware that they could only hold out for so long if all his neighbours were not independent, they did lose the second italo-ethiopian war. Btw, their winning of the first war was not least because of the military help Menelik II obtained from other European nations who were sceptical of the Italians moves during their 'Scramble for Africa'. The Europeans also froze many African states from industrial technology and Menelik II being coerced by the Europeans not to hire diasporans is what it is. Those African kings/warlords were also not worshipping Europeans, Shaka Zulu may be a familiar name but King Mutesa was doing his thang out there. There's a reason why the Germans parked their bus at Tanganyika, they knew those boys by the big lake were about their murder game.

Ethiopia is not an exceptionally exceptional state, other than their early adoption of a semitic religion, which brings me back to the irony of a pro-black movement which on one hand burns down the queen of england and the pope while also deifying a monarchy that follows a distinctly non-african religion practiced by the queen of england and the pope. No Tupac/Biggie shyt, just good ol millenial cynicism

 

[frankster]

you aint had to neg me tho, I said no shade, I dont have a problem with the Ethiopian monarchy, despite Selassie doing his best Escobar impression having his own personal zoo and shyt while his subjects starved to death and in the process creating the current impression the west has of Africa. I just thought it was ironic that a pro-black movement decided to die on the hill of a monarchy that had a hard on for western civilization and claimed direct descent to the evil 'white' Jesus.

Like you I only wish to shed some light on the issue you have brought forward......based n my understanding of what occurred.

Yes Selassie had a zoo sorts or pets which is not uncommon among royalty.
The people Haile Selassie reputedly neglected and allowed to starve where living in parts of the country that where up in rebellion in the 1930-40. Even after the rebellion was subdued it was difficult to ensure safe passage of food and other supplies. Not to mention their was a still lot of hostility to ward the Emperor and his government in this region up until his usurpation. Lastly right or wrong the Emperor and his military advisors decided on a "scorched earth" policy during the rebellion which later contributed to the famine......In other words and in a nutshell - The Emperor saw these people as insurgents and was not too interested in strengthen people who where against his rule. Was he right or wrong for letting his dissenters starve....you be the judge.

I am not sure Jesus could correctly be classified as white......
He had a Hard On for Western Knowledge and Technology.....not western civilization.

The 'levels' I spoke of was about 'Africanness', to put it rather bluntly, even those 'evil racist' Afrikaners are Africans, the continent is not monolithic.

No.....The Afrikaaners are not Africans
Yes....the continent is not monolithic.

Many European nations invaded all corners of Africa multiple times. Belgium, Britain, France, Portugal all plotted against each other to take over Africa, ergo 'Scramble for Africa'. Mandela and em were helped by many African nations not least another famous 'African' leader Muammar Gadaffi who was a pre eminent pan african and a strong advocate of the former OAU. And Selassie's advocacy for the independence movements wasnt purely altruistic, he was well aware that they could only hold out for so long if all his neighbours were not independent, they did lose the second italo-ethiopian war. Btw, their winning of the first war was not least because of the military help Menelik II obtained from other European nations who were sceptical of the Italians moves during their 'Scramble for Africa'. The Europeans also froze many African states from industrial technology and Menelik II being coerced by the Europeans not to hire diasporans is what it is. Those African kings/warlords were also not worshipping Europeans, Shaka Zulu may be a familiar name but King Mutesa was doing his thang out there. There's a reason why the Germans parked their bus at Tanganyika, they knew those boys by the big lake were about their murder game.

Selassie is the chief Architect of the OAU with Nkrumah.

Ethiopia is not an exceptionally exceptional state, other than their early adoption of a semitic religion, which brings me back to the irony of a pro-black movement which on one hand burns down the queen of england and the pope while also deifying a monarchy that follows a distinctly non-african religion practiced by the queen of england and the pope. No Tupac/Biggie shyt, just good ol millenial cynicism

Ethiopian is exceptional because it is one of the oldest known nation/state and has effectively survive the "scramble for Africa"....meaning no former colonial power has claims over or on it.
Ethiopian Christianity antedate that of Rome and is qualitatively different.
Judaism is an African religion founded by an Egyptian in Egypt called Moses....
Many early Christians where Egyptian....Even Paul was mistaken for an Egyptian - the following so called Christian idea have its antecedent in Egypt...Christ, Trinity, Amen, Resurrection, Baptism and to some extent even the Crucifixion.

 

[Remy Danton]

any of you guys familiar with this brother?



he is the same guy that was in sankofa movie

 

[Dad]

When you realize there are different groups of Rasta (same as Christianity) eg Baptists, Catholics, Anglicans, Non-denomationals...etc.

For Rasta you have houses such as - Bobo, 12 Tribes, Nyabinghi as well as other tie ins such as Eithopian Orthodox (which is a Christian branch), Fulfilled Rasta which again based on Christianity etc.

Then study what fits you... you will realize it isn't a CULT. It is a true religion. All religions branch out...

Haile Selassie teachings are good things to study, as well as the pro-black sides of some Rasta houses.

Bob Marley was 12 Tribes of Israel.
Capleton is Boboshanti... (pro black)
I would like to reason, but I am not very knowledgeable of all topics. Have been pursuing it on my own, though. Im in foreign, not much people to reason with locally.

I am a member here: Fulfilled Rastafari House
I have read the teachings of Haile and his quotes. (Can find some on playstore or google searches).

Read the Kebra Nagast also...

I didn't know there were different types

 

[Naijan]

Funny how people toss the word sub Saharan when it means nothing to most Africans. Sub sahara is not no race just a location. Oh an Ethiopians are "sub Saharan" too. Stop letting white people define you.

 

[Cabbage Patch]

It's a false religion

Well just know that they are the cult of Haile Selassie. If you dont think Haile Selassie is divine, I say you leave them alone. Tafari Makonen Wolde Mikael. Attaching Ras to Tafari, and attaching Jah. Jah Rastafari the attach some godlike qualities to him. F all that. It is just another messianic cult of confusion, inspired by the Biblical literature. Avoid confusion
The divinity of Ras Tafari in the movement is supposedly due to prophecy of Marcus Mosiah Garvey.

 

[Danie84]

Upstanding Brethrens, you dare not cross

 

[IllmaticDelta]

No...Marcus GARVEY did not deify or prophesy about Selassie's coming.

Liberty Hall was a location Marcus Garvey's UNIA own and operated where preachers, poets, artist and essayists etc where welcome and given a soap box to speak on various issue relevant to the black communities.
One preacher and author by the name of James Morris Webb actually made the prophecy about a "Negro Universal King Coming to Rule the World" at or in one of UNIA Liberty Halls. Ten yrs later Ras now Negus Tafari was Crowned King of Ethiopia.

http://paramountshome.org/articles/Spotlight/rev webb2.pdf

Interesting character

 

[.r.]

..

 

[Losttribe]

Rastas r ok.
Pretty good philosophy
But basically a waste of black liberation space.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

It's a false religion

it's a quasi religion just like the Nation of Islam but based in b*stardized Judeo-Christian faith instead of a b*stardized Islamic one.