Official Money in the Bank 2020 Thread: Climb the Corporate Ladder

[Tres Leches]

shirt even has the bushes where rey and black ended up in

 

[stro]

Is there stronger symbolism that you've seen on WWE television than the gym being exactly the same since the mid 80s and the rest of Titan Tower being exactly the same beyond logos and newer pictures since the Attitude Era?

 

[TrueEpic08]

Alright, I slept on this to collect my thoughts, and...

I still don't know what to think of this match.

I sure as fukk didn't like it, for reasons I'll detail below, but I can't bring myself to actually hate it. I find myself deeply confused by its existence and wondering whether it needed to happen, but I didn't feel like I'd completely wasted a half hour by watching it. In reality, was this really worse than some of the Attitude era's worst moments, or the worst of WWF 1995 or 2005-2007? I don't think so.

Problem is, it felt like they wanted to do DDT Apartment Wrestling without actually understanding why that, or DDT as a promotion in general, worked. WWE wanted to use a concept that's meant to parody Sports Entertainment wholesale (what with the matches that in no way resembles combat sport, ridiculous rules, and random nonsense happening around the wrestlers), but have us take it seriously as a means of receiving a shot at the top men's and women's titles. But then you have all this one note comedy with Brother Love, Stephanie, Vince, etc...but then you have Corbin throwing people off the roof to no reaction from ANYBODY...it's just tonally all over the place. It's not bizarre enough to be purely interesting as a spectacle, the jokes they included are out of place in a match ostensibly meant to elevate its winners (yeah, yeah, I know...roll with me for a minute here) and weren't actually all that funny for the most part, the actual "wrestling" wasn't close to good enough to engage me on that level (don't get me started on how ridiculous this is as a match)...it just proves that you can't just thoughtlessly port over a concept without really breaking down how and why it works, and it feels like none of that necessary work was done when putting this match together.

But again, I can't bring myself to totally hate this. It's existence just baffles me to no end, and I just think that we're really beyond the looking glass at this point with WWE. If we're supposed to be taking the parody of sports entertainment seriously now that THE sports entertainment company is cribbing from DDT, then what the fukk is wrestling supposed to be anymore (note the governmental parallels here)? Simulated combat sport is one thing, but does the world really need a bunch of terribly acted short films masquerading as wrestling?

I can understand the attraction to this match on a fukkery/curiosity level, but this just made me feel like I don't know what wrestling is supposed to be anymore. And I'm not sure WWE knows either.

 

[Rollie Forbes]

Alright, I slept on this to collect my thoughts, and...

I still don't know what to think of this match.

I sure as fukk didn't like it, for reasons I'll detail below, but I can't bring myself to actually hate it. I find myself deeply confused by its existence and wondering whether it needed to happen, but I didn't feel like I'd completely wasted a half hour by watching it. In reality, was this really worse than some of the Attitude era's worst moments, or the worst of WWF 1995 or 2005-2007? I don't think so.

Problem is, it felt like they wanted to do DDT Apartment Wrestling without actually understanding why that, or DDT as a promotion in general, worked. WWE wanted to use a concept that's meant to parody Sports Entertainment wholesale (what with the matches that in no way resembles combat sport, ridiculous rules, and random nonsense happening around the wrestlers), but have us take it seriously as a means of receiving a shot at the top men's and women's titles. But then you have all this one note comedy with Brother Love, Stephanie, Vince, etc...but then you have Corbin throwing people off the roof to no reaction from ANYBODY...it's just tonally all over the place. It's not bizarre enough to be purely interesting as a spectacle, the jokes they included are out of place in a match ostensibly meant to elevate its winners (yeah, yeah, I know...roll with me for a minute here) and weren't actually all that funny for the most part, the actual "wrestling" wasn't close to good enough to engage me on that level (don't get me started on how ridiculous this is as a match)...it just proves that you can't just thoughtlessly port over a concept without really breaking down how and why it works, and it feels like none of that necessary work was done when putting this match together.

But again, I can't bring myself to totally hate this. It's existence just baffles me to no end, and I just think that we're really beyond the looking glass at this point with WWE. If we're supposed to be taking the parody of sports entertainment seriously now that THE sports entertainment company is cribbing from DDT, then what the fukk is wrestling supposed to be anymore (note the governmental parallels here)? Simulated combat sport is one thing, but does the world really need a bunch of terribly acted short films masquerading as wrestling?

I can understand the attraction to this match on a fukkery/curiosity level, but this just made me feel like I don't know what wrestling is supposed to be anymore. And I'm not sure WWE knows either.

Well said.

 

[MenacingMonk]

Can we all agree the Doink cameo was fukkin stupid?

 

[mannyrs13]

i dont think i saw aleister get thrown off. i'll have to go back and look.

 

[NoMorePie]

i dont think i saw aleister get thrown off. i'll have to go back and look.

Yea he got murdered maybe 10-15 seconds after rey did

 

[mannyrs13]

Thinking about it, I don't know who else was worthy other than Otis. He's already over and is in an interesting storyline and this could help build him more. DB and AJ don't need it cuz they already top 5 or maybe even top 3 wrestlers in the company and are gonna be ok with or without a title. They already on the tail end of their careers and taking things slow like DB now that Brie is pregnant. So I don't think those guys needed it. Same with Rey. He already has had a great career. Corbin hasn't really panned out the way they've wanted him to, and thats mainly on booking. The arrogant jerk role he tends to play isn't really working. He should've had a more dark and evil role like Alaister Black or be less of a sneaky heel acting like a cartoon villian it seems. And Black is ok and maybe gets a main event position in the future but he really has nothing going on right now and I don't know how he can be built up as a briefcase holder. Granted who knows if Otis keeps the briefcase or something happens but he seems to be taking the most advantage of this opportunity and lets see if he gets better now.

 

[mannyrs13]

Alright, I slept on this to collect my thoughts, and...

I still don't know what to think of this match.

I sure as fukk didn't like it, for reasons I'll detail below, but I can't bring myself to actually hate it. I find myself deeply confused by its existence and wondering whether it needed to happen, but I didn't feel like I'd completely wasted a half hour by watching it. In reality, was this really worse than some of the Attitude era's worst moments, or the worst of WWF 1995 or 2005-2007? I don't think so.

Problem is, it felt like they wanted to do DDT Apartment Wrestling without actually understanding why that, or DDT as a promotion in general, worked. WWE wanted to use a concept that's meant to parody Sports Entertainment wholesale (what with the matches that in no way resembles combat sport, ridiculous rules, and random nonsense happening around the wrestlers), but have us take it seriously as a means of receiving a shot at the top men's and women's titles. But then you have all this one note comedy with Brother Love, Stephanie, Vince, etc...but then you have Corbin throwing people off the roof to no reaction from ANYBODY...it's just tonally all over the place. It's not bizarre enough to be purely interesting as a spectacle, the jokes they included are out of place in a match ostensibly meant to elevate its winners (yeah, yeah, I know...roll with me for a minute here) and weren't actually all that funny for the most part, the actual "wrestling" wasn't close to good enough to engage me on that level (don't get me started on how ridiculous this is as a match)...it just proves that you can't just thoughtlessly port over a concept without really breaking down how and why it works, and it feels like none of that necessary work was done when putting this match together.

But again, I can't bring myself to totally hate this. It's existence just baffles me to no end, and I just think that we're really beyond the looking glass at this point with WWE. If we're supposed to be taking the parody of sports entertainment seriously now that THE sports entertainment company is cribbing from DDT, then what the fukk is wrestling supposed to be anymore (note the governmental parallels here)? Simulated combat sport is one thing, but does the world really need a bunch of terribly acted short films masquerading as wrestling?

I can understand the attraction to this match on a fukkery/curiosity level, but this just made me feel like I don't know what wrestling is supposed to be anymore. And I'm not sure WWE knows either.

There were other wrestling matches on the card that were traditional wrestling and not just this unique type of match. Gone are the old days where two big sweaty men slapping meat, like Big E said, is the only thing that wrestling is about. The industry needs change and new ideas and creativity, no matter where it comes from. Society changes thru the years and generations. New wrestlers come out that can do different things than those in the past and new ideas come with it. Especially during these troubling times. They are there to entertain us and with the decline in tv ratings when they do have regular wrestling matches, something different can help boost interest. I feel like innovation should continue when the crowds return and wrestlers and booking should continue to step their game up to create new ways to entertain. Wrestling is fake, as much as people like to obsess over that like that episode of Dark Side of Ring where buddy got slapped for trying to "expose" the business. But we are here to be entertained, not educated. Gotta enjoy what we can.

 

[Max.]

Can't believe Rey and Aleister are gone

May they Rest in Peace

Rey is leaving wwe

 

[TrueEpic08]

There were other wrestling matches on the card that were traditional wrestling and not just this unique type of match. Gone are the old days where two big sweaty men slapping meat, like Big E said, is the only thing that wrestling is about. The industry needs change and new ideas and creativity, no matter where it comes from. Society changes thru the years and generations. New wrestlers come out that can do different things than those in the past and new ideas come with it. Especially during these troubling times. They are there to entertain us and with the decline in tv ratings when they do have regular wrestling matches, something different can help boost interest. I feel like innovation should continue when the crowds return and wrestlers and booking should continue to step their game up to create new ways to entertain. Wrestling is fake, as much as people like to obsess over that like that episode of Dark Side of Ring where buddy got slapped for trying to "expose" the business. But we are here to be entertained, not educated. Gotta enjoy what we can.

I have no problem with innovation, and I can actually see the good ideas here (mostly cribbed from promotions like DDT and Lucha Underground, but you take them where you can get them), but for me the distinguishing characteristic of wrestling as an art form is the juxtaposition of simulated combat sport (however you want to stretch that) and live audience interaction. That's what makes it unique, and without that mixture it's not wrestling, but bad acting or bad filmmaking. I live in LA, I can find those anywhere. That'a not to say that you can't work cinematic-style elements into the wrestling, but the framework has to be there to make it work (DDT was satire/parody/commentary, Lucha Underground was a fantasy-adjacent TV show about a wrestling promotion). Without that framework it just looks silly, and I can't imagine that this will translate into sustained interest in the product. I've made this point a few times on here, but people just don't watch wrestling for anything but the wrestling or segments that lead to in-ring simulated combat. Yes, it's fake and staged, but people truly do care for that type of fake, staged combat and the circumstances surrounding it.

After I made that post, I thought about it a little more and realized that the distinction Vince has been trying to make between sports entertainment and pro wrestling has never made more sense than it does at this very moment. And really, there's very little "sport" to this kind of sports entertainment, which makes it far less interesting to me than, say, AEW. At least they're still trying to put on a pro wrestling product in these times (though I find the empty arena matches mostly unwatchable by default). Does that automatically make AEW better than WWE by default? No. I personally enjoy it more, but not all pro wrestling is great and not all sports entertainment is bad. But you come closer to losing the core of what makes wrestling wrestling with the latter as opposed to the former. If we're going in that direction, whether because of the pandemic or otherwise, maybe we just don't need wrestling period.

If you enjoy it, knock yourself out. To a certain extent, I get it (I was highly sports entertained by Impact's Broken Universe stuff, and I thought the Firefly Fun House "match" was the best thing WWE's done in years), but I don't think it should be the main aspect of a wrestling program for any reason. But that's just me, I might be in the minority at this point.

 

[Cartier Murphy]

I enjoyed the ladder matches for what they were and I had a lot of fun watching them. Some of the comedy and cameos fell flat, some more spots could’ve been more creative, but I’m not really bothered by it. Given the circumstances I thought they were really entertaining and I’m glad they’re atleast continuing with these cinematic matches in these unique settings. I’m so used to WWE delivering the same shyt for 20 + years that this stuff has been a breath of fresh air

 

[mannyrs13]

I have no problem with innovation, and I can actually see the good ideas here (mostly cribbed from promotions like DDT and Lucha Underground, but you take them where you can get them), but for me the distinguishing characteristic of wrestling as an art form is the juxtaposition of simulated combat sport (however you want to stretch that) and live audience interaction. That's what makes it unique, and without that mixture it's not wrestling, but bad acting or bad filmmaking. I live in LA, I can find those anywhere. That'a not to say that you can't work cinematic-style elements into the wrestling, but the framework has to be there to make it work (DDT was satire/parody/commentary, Lucha Underground was a fantasy-adjacent TV show about a wrestling promotion). Without that framework it just looks silly, and I can't imagine that this will translate into sustained interest in the product. I've made this point a few times on here, but people just don't watch wrestling for anything but the wrestling or segments that lead to in-ring simulated combat. Yes, it's fake and staged, but people truly do care for that type of fake, staged combat and the circumstances surrounding it.

After I made that post, I thought about it a little more and realized that the distinction Vince has been trying to make between sports entertainment and pro wrestling has never made more sense than it does at this very moment. And really, there's very little "sport" to this kind of sports entertainment, which makes it far less interesting to me than, say, AEW. At least they're still trying to put on a pro wrestling product in these times (though I find the empty arena matches mostly unwatchable by default). Does that automatically make AEW better than WWE by default? No. I personally enjoy it more, but not all pro wrestling is great and not all sports entertainment is bad. But you come closer to losing the core of what makes wrestling wrestling with the latter as opposed to the former. If we're going in that direction, whether because of the pandemic or otherwise, maybe we just don't need wrestling period.

If you enjoy it, knock yourself out. To a certain extent, I get it (I was highly sports entertained by Impact's Broken Universe stuff, and I thought the Firefly Fun House "match" was the best thing WWE's done in years), but I don't think it should be the main aspect of a wrestling program for any reason. But that's just me, I might be in the minority at this point.

yeah true. can only have it to some extent and with the right people doing it. all depends on how its done. hopefully when crowds return it'll go back more to the norm with the occasional unique aspects. Maybe not in the matches as much but in the overall aspect of entertainment.

 

[dh86]

Thinking about it, I don't know who else was worthy other than Otis. He's already over and is in an interesting storyline and this could help build him more. DB and AJ don't need it cuz they already top 5 or maybe even top 3 wrestlers in the company and are gonna be ok with or without a title. They already on the tail end of their careers and taking things slow like DB now that Brie is pregnant. So I don't think those guys needed it. Same with Rey. He already has had a great career. Corbin hasn't really panned out the way they've wanted him to, and thats mainly on booking. The arrogant jerk role he tends to play isn't really working. He should've had a more dark and evil role like Alaister Black or be less of a sneaky heel acting like a cartoon villian it seems. And Black is ok and maybe gets a main event position in the future but he really has nothing going on right now and I don't know how he can be built up as a briefcase holder. Granted who knows if Otis keeps the briefcase or something happens but he seems to be taking the most advantage of this opportunity and lets see if he gets better now.

Aleister Black is a lot further along in the push and it would have generated more interest. Otis against Braun or The Fiend is death. Summer 2004 vibes where the whole summer was built around Eugene

 

[EarlyEarly]

So Shayna left the food fight and went home? Allergic reaction maybe?