if we can talk among ourselves, fellas
if you are in a chick house and you already got your hand around her, you might as well go for second base. anything less than second base in a intimate setting is unacceptable, especially if the chick is older. matter fact, Im making a rule right now, If you are with a lady over the age of 30, you are required to run out a double, you get thrown out, you get thrown out, anything less than that is disrespectful to both parties