Secure Da Bag
Veteran
Bruce Lee said to be like the water in a cup. But Pete is freer than a cup full of air. We live in wild times, brehs.
Official 2020 Democratic Primary Debate Thread
- Thread starter mc_brew
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Bruce Lee said to be like the water in a cup. But Pete is freer than a cup full of air. We live in wild times, brehs.
storyteller
Veteran
This was one of the closest debates we’ve had for more than half the field. I feel like each of Amy, Bernie, Biden, Steyer and Warren showed up and performed well but all had uneven performances. I could see people saying any one of them won depending on what issues matter most to you. They each staked our good positions in certain areas. So while I'll have 'em ranked by my views, I think they've all helped themselves somewhat throughout the night. Pete and Yang...not so much.
1. Warren - On a night like this one, I think Elizabeth Warren comes away best for two reasons. One is that she got to focus on her own message without it being undermined and pot shotted or distracted from by stories unrelated to her policy plans. I feel like no one else on stage was as consistent as Warren was (Amy a close second which I'll get to). Where'd she stand out most? Calling Pete out for trying to BS around pretty awful signs of racial profiling from his police department as mayor. Warren also used extended discussions on how to support the black community to circle in her housing plan which I'm a big fan of. I actually have a thought that a lot of Warren's best policy ideas dropped early in the campaign season (when she was building momentum) and they may have slipped past people who didn't pick up the race seriously yet or even who have forgotten them since a lot of policies just never get brought up. Maybe Warren reminding heads about the totality of her platform will work, especially her goals for communities of color. She owned that answer.
2. Bernie - I really loved that Bernie started early by mentioning unity and shouting out everyone on stage. That, combined with Biden and Klobuchar standing up for Bernie when Hillary Clinton's attacks came up, gave Bernie an image that a lot of people probably wouldn't expect. In terms of answers, Sanders did a great job of dismissing most attacks and pivoting right back to his message. Bern's Healthcare messaging has worked for four years now, fearmongering is hard to pull off when Bernie is speaking to realities that a lot of us face or have faced with health. He also acknowledged his evolution on gun control in a way to defanged Biden's attempt to attack his past on the issue. Lastly, Bernie's response on the latest trade deal showed that he won't change his answers depending on who's in the room. Dude told Jean Shaheen to her face that he disagrees with her and brought climate change into the issue, a necessary discussion to have that once again sets him apart on a major issue.
3. Klobuchar - Amy Klobuchar could be higher, first even, depending on what you look for when rating this. Klobuchar had the most effective shots fired on the night. She hit Pete for wanting to watch cartoons instead of the impeachment (chef's kiss to that one). She used Bernie's trade deal response to shout out NH's own Shaheen which is a great way to score points whether I agree with her position or not (she shouted out Shaheen twice btw). Amy also got some laughs and was able to draw connections with both the progressive front runners which is a nice olive branch move. Overall, she was consistent on issues but here's the reason she dropped a bit on my list...What policy suggestions did she make that stood out from the field? I'd say none. So while she sounded great rhetorically, there was a key ingredient missing. Her platform is bland and that's why she can leave stage with a hyped performance but hasn't gotten the bumps that others have.
4. Steyer - Tom Steyer's second half of the debate was fantastic. I had no idea how well he's doing with black voters in SC and by the time he went fully behind Reparations it seemed like his strategy is clear as day to reach out to the most important voting bloc the Dems have. This is brilliant and ties in nicely to his overall turnout messaging for the night. Here's what I think hurt him though. Tom spent the first half of the debate focused on hyping the threat of Trump and importance of turnout but without pushing much else. This turned his first half messaging into little more than an amplifier for whoever answered similar questions immediately before and after him. He's been doing this the whole time too, he seems to be co-signing others on stage which helps them more than him. So he dips for taking too long to finally hit his beats, but he did really well for someone with the least to lose and most to gain.
5. Biden - I shouted out Bernie for acknowledging an evolution in his view and how it hurt an attempted shot from Biden. Well Biden did similar by acknowledging the mistake he made trusting Bush not to abuse his authority on Iraq. As long as he doesn't pair that with certain other campaign messaging (chiefly, that he's trusting the Republicans to come around once Trump is gone) then he does himself a favor to own a mistake and say he's learned from it. Biden sounded best on stage with foreign policy regardless of how I feel about his actual foreign policy. Joe also had a fire moment where he called a moderator out for cherrypicking a quote from a broader statement to try and catch a "gotcha." I drop Joe a bit because Amy stole some of his steam and Tom just made a play for Joe's "firewall" support. Steyer sees the opening to peel those voters off and Biden didn't do much to avoid that. The Vindman shout out was great though.
6. Yang - I thought Yang had shown a ton of improvement in his debate performances as they progressed but this was a big step back. It felt like he barely gave answers compared to any others. Steyer actually called out Yang for trying to avoid race specific policy and Yang visibly shrunk. Andrew's best moment was probably circling in MLK's support of a UBI to his own (but I always thought MLK's idea would be a larger amount than what Yang's offering tbh). He had a chance to jump on the drug decriminalization question that Pete got hit with and reframe it to sell his own plan, but seeing a less radical idea was being attacked I can understand why he dodged a self-defeating play...but I think he shoulda taken that shot because it would have helped him stand out like it has in prior debates.
7. Pete - Everyone hit Pete. Amy's cartoon shot was the best of the night from a entertainment standpoint. When Pete tried to fire on Bernie, his comment was dismissed with one sentence and Bernie later hit Pete for bragging about his billionaire donors earlier in the race. Buttigeig also took a HUGE L from Warren, who called him out plainly for juelzing about his record as Mayor and the racial profiling of his police department. He really tried to use gang violence to justify marijuana related arrests wtf. But Buttigeig did have some good moments. I loved his comments on Iran and the need to look at the context of a situation when you amke decisions such as assassination. The other thing I'll always give this dude props for is showing affection to his husband, we saw this week a clip of a voter changing her mind on Pete over his sexual orientation. I respect that he doesn't hide it for the sake of not offending certain people. I don't like anything else about him, but I have his back fully on that note.
Post debate - I'm watching Rahm Emanuel and Chris Christy be chief voices after this debate and that pisses me off. One guy kept a police shooting video under wraps until he could win an election and the other is not just a Republican, but was a TERRIBLE governor objectively (I live in Jersey so I can attest directly). I'm watching these people completely undermine Warren when I felt she did really well. Let me check the other coverage...Did Chris Matthews just pretend he'd be executed by a Bernie administration...wtf. I truly believe that Warren was hit post-debate mainly because her best moment came at Pete's expense and only one person gave her credit for it. I also think Matthews is a damned joke at this point who actually helps us point out that the Bernie Socialist fearmongering is cartoonish. I don't think either was treated fairly in these post debate clips I've watched so far. Just throwing that in.
1. Warren - On a night like this one, I think Elizabeth Warren comes away best for two reasons. One is that she got to focus on her own message without it being undermined and pot shotted or distracted from by stories unrelated to her policy plans. I feel like no one else on stage was as consistent as Warren was (Amy a close second which I'll get to). Where'd she stand out most? Calling Pete out for trying to BS around pretty awful signs of racial profiling from his police department as mayor. Warren also used extended discussions on how to support the black community to circle in her housing plan which I'm a big fan of. I actually have a thought that a lot of Warren's best policy ideas dropped early in the campaign season (when she was building momentum) and they may have slipped past people who didn't pick up the race seriously yet or even who have forgotten them since a lot of policies just never get brought up. Maybe Warren reminding heads about the totality of her platform will work, especially her goals for communities of color. She owned that answer.
2. Bernie - I really loved that Bernie started early by mentioning unity and shouting out everyone on stage. That, combined with Biden and Klobuchar standing up for Bernie when Hillary Clinton's attacks came up, gave Bernie an image that a lot of people probably wouldn't expect. In terms of answers, Sanders did a great job of dismissing most attacks and pivoting right back to his message. Bern's Healthcare messaging has worked for four years now, fearmongering is hard to pull off when Bernie is speaking to realities that a lot of us face or have faced with health. He also acknowledged his evolution on gun control in a way to defanged Biden's attempt to attack his past on the issue. Lastly, Bernie's response on the latest trade deal showed that he won't change his answers depending on who's in the room. Dude told Jean Shaheen to her face that he disagrees with her and brought climate change into the issue, a necessary discussion to have that once again sets him apart on a major issue.
3. Klobuchar - Amy Klobuchar could be higher, first even, depending on what you look for when rating this. Klobuchar had the most effective shots fired on the night. She hit Pete for wanting to watch cartoons instead of the impeachment (chef's kiss to that one). She used Bernie's trade deal response to shout out NH's own Shaheen which is a great way to score points whether I agree with her position or not (she shouted out Shaheen twice btw). Amy also got some laughs and was able to draw connections with both the progressive front runners which is a nice olive branch move. Overall, she was consistent on issues but here's the reason she dropped a bit on my list...What policy suggestions did she make that stood out from the field? I'd say none. So while she sounded great rhetorically, there was a key ingredient missing. Her platform is bland and that's why she can leave stage with a hyped performance but hasn't gotten the bumps that others have.
4. Steyer - Tom Steyer's second half of the debate was fantastic. I had no idea how well he's doing with black voters in SC and by the time he went fully behind Reparations it seemed like his strategy is clear as day to reach out to the most important voting bloc the Dems have. This is brilliant and ties in nicely to his overall turnout messaging for the night. Here's what I think hurt him though. Tom spent the first half of the debate focused on hyping the threat of Trump and importance of turnout but without pushing much else. This turned his first half messaging into little more than an amplifier for whoever answered similar questions immediately before and after him. He's been doing this the whole time too, he seems to be co-signing others on stage which helps them more than him. So he dips for taking too long to finally hit his beats, but he did really well for someone with the least to lose and most to gain.
5. Biden - I shouted out Bernie for acknowledging an evolution in his view and how it hurt an attempted shot from Biden. Well Biden did similar by acknowledging the mistake he made trusting Bush not to abuse his authority on Iraq. As long as he doesn't pair that with certain other campaign messaging (chiefly, that he's trusting the Republicans to come around once Trump is gone) then he does himself a favor to own a mistake and say he's learned from it. Biden sounded best on stage with foreign policy regardless of how I feel about his actual foreign policy. Joe also had a fire moment where he called a moderator out for cherrypicking a quote from a broader statement to try and catch a "gotcha." I drop Joe a bit because Amy stole some of his steam and Tom just made a play for Joe's "firewall" support. Steyer sees the opening to peel those voters off and Biden didn't do much to avoid that. The Vindman shout out was great though.
6. Yang - I thought Yang had shown a ton of improvement in his debate performances as they progressed but this was a big step back. It felt like he barely gave answers compared to any others. Steyer actually called out Yang for trying to avoid race specific policy and Yang visibly shrunk. Andrew's best moment was probably circling in MLK's support of a UBI to his own (but I always thought MLK's idea would be a larger amount than what Yang's offering tbh). He had a chance to jump on the drug decriminalization question that Pete got hit with and reframe it to sell his own plan, but seeing a less radical idea was being attacked I can understand why he dodged a self-defeating play...but I think he shoulda taken that shot because it would have helped him stand out like it has in prior debates.
7. Pete - Everyone hit Pete. Amy's cartoon shot was the best of the night from a entertainment standpoint. When Pete tried to fire on Bernie, his comment was dismissed with one sentence and Bernie later hit Pete for bragging about his billionaire donors earlier in the race. Buttigeig also took a HUGE L from Warren, who called him out plainly for juelzing about his record as Mayor and the racial profiling of his police department. He really tried to use gang violence to justify marijuana related arrests wtf. But Buttigeig did have some good moments. I loved his comments on Iran and the need to look at the context of a situation when you amke decisions such as assassination. The other thing I'll always give this dude props for is showing affection to his husband, we saw this week a clip of a voter changing her mind on Pete over his sexual orientation. I respect that he doesn't hide it for the sake of not offending certain people. I don't like anything else about him, but I have his back fully on that note.
Post debate - I'm watching Rahm Emanuel and Chris Christy be chief voices after this debate and that pisses me off. One guy kept a police shooting video under wraps until he could win an election and the other is not just a Republican, but was a TERRIBLE governor objectively (I live in Jersey so I can attest directly). I'm watching these people completely undermine Warren when I felt she did really well. Let me check the other coverage...Did Chris Matthews just pretend he'd be executed by a Bernie administration...wtf. I truly believe that Warren was hit post-debate mainly because her best moment came at Pete's expense and only one person gave her credit for it. I also think Matthews is a damned joke at this point who actually helps us point out that the Bernie Socialist fearmongering is cartoonish. I don't think either was treated fairly in these post debate clips I've watched so far. Just throwing that in.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
Stop spamming the thread like Nap.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
Do you want to talk about what Bernie said or do you want to admit you're in a cult?
Amazing. Do some of you non Bernie supporters feel swarmed on here sometimes
Then eat poop
TheDarceKnight
Veteran
Facts.
His 15 mins are almost up. The Iowa debacle started letting people see that he’s shifty, and he’s an empty suit that just spouts platitudes and word salad.
It’s still early so I only see wind leaving his sails.
By the way he will absolutely lose support when more people find out he’s gay. Personally I don’t care what his sexual preferences are, and I dislike him for other reasons, but he will definitely lose some support when the gay thing comes out.
To me it’s just so obvious that he’s propped up there by the ruling class. He just looks like a weasel too.
afterlife2009
Superstar
Can one of these unity progressives please help me out here? Explain to me how Joe Biden and Amy Klobuchar came to the defense of Bernie against Hillary -- very publicly -- while Warren hasn't said a single word?
Warren wanted that Sunrise endorsement badly. I wonder why Warren tanked.....desperate times.
Warren wanted that Sunrise endorsement badly. I wonder why Warren tanked.....desperate times.
You are hypnotized by hate my nikka. Word to Bad Ass Lil Boosie.
GOAT
The bubble was fraudulent
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
Right, as I read through the last 2-3 pages and most of it full of Bernie supporters going at Liz while none of her supporters are even talking about him...definition of hate.
Eat poop Dora.