Official 2020 Democratic Primary Debate Thread

[Warren Moon]

Right now poor who can't afford treatment that their insurance doesn't cover are dying or rationing medications, making them worse. Some of the things on the list that you say won't be covered are luxury items and as you said people will have the option to get private insurance to cover them if they need them. Some of the items are quality of life items that can be important but you also padded the list with items that are covered when needed and things that have nothing to do with health insurance. What do air conditioners in general have to do with healthcare? I'd rather life and death needs be covered for everyone and deal with the rest as needed.

Air conditioners help an older person regulate their body temperature when they’re under certain medications and/or experiencing certain diseases.

The ppl who typically need this, live in hot areas (the south), don’t currently have one (poor), and in extremely rural areas.

Glad you picked that one as an example. It’s literally the perfect example for how they will target individuals that fall outside the mean of everyone else in the United States.

Poor, rural living people.......who could that be?


Maybe idk. Black people living in the missippi delta.



You’re already changing you’re thinking. “Like who the fukk needs that?!? I know I don’t.”


This is exactly how they’re going to do this.

 

[No1]

Find a business. Find someone underpaid.

Find a family. Find someone who understands how expensive health care can be.

fukk it. I'll move off of one of my strongest held positions. Find a successful worker and you're likely to find someone spending the money they could put towards a mortgage or retire as a barrier of entry.

The system was never created for a fair shake. And then we put price on potential and survival.

Not everyone deserves to win. That isn't justice. But everyone deserves a better shot.

And that's why I've gravitated towards Warren.

The problem with what you’re saying is that’s it’s not true. Maybe if you’re black like me or @dora_da_destroyer then you can be highly educated and successful and care about the plight of the poor. It’s because the struggle is in our blood. But what you fail to acknowledge is that the false idea of meritocracy which is really just about where you start off, is heavily ingrained in the American psyche. So people are not sympathetic. You just laughably asserted that upper middle class people care more about working class people than those people are about themselves. I’ve been a corporate lawyer since my mid 20s and I can assure you that is not true. Those people hated Warren during the Obama years and hated Bernie in 2016. You’re misrepresenting what Warren and Sanders are saying. They aren’t talking about equality of opportunity because Democrats have been offering vague solutions towards that for decades but have been unwilling to do the work to get it done. What they are talking about is making America more equitable and establishing a greater baseline for what rights and what life one should be entitled to strictly on the basis of being a human and an American. That requires moving beyond the conventional American thought. That is the entire economic populism argument, instead of judging American by the stock market or how many jobs are created, judge it by the equality of life of the least well off and talented. They aren’t saying everyone has a right to be Jay Z but they’re saying no one should be in a position where they cannot feel secure in their present and future. And it’s the politics that I’ve been espousing on here for 7 years.

There’s an experiment that was run on MBA students a few years ago and they asked them about this corporate policy that would invest in the local community and raises the equality of life. Everyone agreed. They then asked them what if it would limit shareholder profits, next to no one raised their hand and looked around uncomfortably. It is an entire ideology that we have been raised on of choosing business over the person whenever they come in conflict. Even if the cost to the person is much greater. The whole liberal idea has been about diversifying the class of individuals who make those decisions instead of changing that thought process entirely. Warren isn’t unique in anything she is saying because those policy papers have existed forever and formed the basis of Sanders 2016 largely as well. She’s just selling it to you in a less confrontational way that matches the meritocratic smart person concept that we all have been raised on. Anyone who actually reads the proposals that Warren and Sanders have will see the striking similarity. Bernie is just a dude who went to UChicago and then was an organizer and never became friends with anyone in finance so he has no trouble spitting absolute vitriol at them because he has never been in that world. Warren does it in an aggressive but less vitriolic manner because she was once there. It is why their bases are union people and liberal professionals respectively. Each has a persona that catches the ear of those sorts of people more so than the other does. Read the policy, their ideas are very very similar. They’re the only two people who would move the country left and it’s why the negative attacks on Warren started last week on CNBC. She’s a legitimate threat now.

 

[chico25]

Air conditioners help an older person regulate their body temperature when they’re under certain medications and/or experiencing certain diseases.

The ppl who typically need this, live in hot areas (the south), don’t currently have one (poor), and in extremely rural areas.

Glad you picked that one as an example. It’s literally the perfect example for how they will target individuals that fall outside the mean of everyone else in the United States.

Poor, rural living people.......who could that be?


Maybe idk. Black people living in the missippi delta.



You’re already changing you’re thinking. “Like who the fukk needs that?!? I know I don’t.”


This is exactly how they’re going to do this.

I'm from the south and I know air conditioning is important in this level of heat. I have never heard of a health insurance plan that covers buying one. I haven't changed my thinking, Medicare for all is one of many plans from the Sanders campaign. It's meant to deal with healthcare coverage and lowering costs and getting everyone covered.

Do you believe the people you are using to make your point can afford the type of private health insurance that could cover the things that you say Medicare for all lacks? If not then they are props you are using to support what you want.

The video you posted had nothing to do with air conditioning or health insurance. Those people are living in poverty with few options and Medicare for all would help with one aspect of their lives, health insurance, some of Bernie Sanders other plans would help with other aspects. They mentioned not having gas to cook due to not being on the grid, the rebuilding of our energy infrastructure under a green new deal would expand coverage to rural areas. A rise in the minimum wage and tuition free trade schools and college would allow the next generation to improve their circumstances and rise out of that poverty.

 

[Warren Moon]

I'm from the south and I know air conditioning is important in this level of heat. I have never heard of a health insurance plan that covers buying one. I haven't changed my thinking, Medicare for all is one of many plans from the Sanders campaign. It's meant to deal with healthcare coverage and lowering costs and getting everyone covered.

Do you believe the people you are using to make your point can afford the type of private health insurance that could cover the things that you say Medicare for all lacks? If not then they are props you are using to support what you want.

The video you posted had nothing to do with air conditioning or health insurance. Those people are living in poverty with few options and Medicare for all would help with one aspect of their lives, health insurance, some of Bernie Sanders other plans would help with other aspects. They mentioned not having gas to cook due to not being on the grid, the rebuilding of our energy infrastructure under a green new deal would expand coverage to rural areas. A rise in the minimum wage and tuition free trade schools and college would allow the next generation to improve their circumstances and rise out of that poverty.

Most private Medicare advantage plans will pay for air conditioners. Medicare Advantage plans will soon cover things like groceries, air conditioners

Again another lie. Idk why you keep pushing these lies.


Do you see how quickly you were able to go to fukk ppl with air conditioners? In 1 hour you stated an air conditioner was a luxury

The people that need air conditioners don’t have the numbers for you to think it’s important. Now take the literal example you, yourself did and extrapolate that against the entire United States population.

Black ppl don’t have the numbers for our “healthcare needs” to become important. And legally the government will DICTATE what is needed and what isn’t needed.

In one hour you as a black man said fukk air conditioners even tho the ppl that need it are disproportionately black.

And you expect in the future the majority of ppl in this crazy ass nation won’t think like this for people that don’t look like them or live like them


This shyt isn’t a fukking game breh. You’re giving over medical treatment for yourself and your kids, for forever.



The video posted was to show you an example of the living conditions for ppl that need air conditioning for medical reasons.

 

[chico25]

Most private Medicare advantage plans will pay for air conditioners. Medicare Advantage plans will soon cover things like groceries, air conditioners

Again another lie. Idk why you keep pushing these lies.


Do you see how quickly you were able to go to fukk ppl with air conditioners? In 1 hour you stated an air conditioner was a luxury

The people that need air conditioners don’t have the numbers for you to think it’s important. Now take the literal example you, yourself did and extrapolate that against the entire United States population.

Black ppl don’t have the numbers for our “healthcare needs” to become important. And legally the government will DICTATE what is needed and what isn’t needed.

In one hour you as a black man said fukk air conditioners even tho the ppl that need it are disproportionately black.

And you expect in the future the majority of ppl in this crazy ass nation won’t think like this for people that don’t look like them or live like them


This shyt isn’t a fukking game breh. You’re giving over medical treatment for yourself and your kids, for forever.



The video posted was to show you an example of the living conditions for ppl that need air conditioning for medical reasons.

I don't see how I'm "fukking "people. If Medicare advantage pays for air conditioners for people enrolled in their plans and Medicare for all doesn't then Medicare advantage can continue to do so because the bill allows private insurance companies to cover things that aren't covered under the bill. The people who are currently eligible for Medicare and using Medicare advantage wouldn't have their taxes increased and would still be able to get Medicare advantage or other private insurance to cover gaps.

Edit: I just looked it up and the only thing I could find on Medicare advantage covering air conditioning was a CNN article from last year stating that they might start covering them this year. I couldn't find anything confirming that it went into effect. You made it sound like a long time benefit that people would be losing.

Medicare Advantage plans will soon cover things like groceries, air conditioners

 

[Warren Moon]

I don't see how I'm "fukking "people. If Medicare advantage pays for air conditioners for people enrolled in their plans and Medicare for all doesn't then Medicare advantage can continue to do so because the bill allows private insurance companies to cover things that aren't covered under the bill. The people who are currently eligible for Medicare and using Medicare advantage wouldn't have their taxes increased and would still be able to get Medicare advantage or other private insurance to cover gaps.

You’re right.

There’s major point your not accounting for. How much will the private plans cost after my taxes for Medicare? To cover other services?

And if I have to pay for Medicare and extra private insurance.

Why can’t I just pay for private insurance that’ll be cheaper and handled by one entity to get the same benefits I would get under “Medicare for all + private insurance”?

Also, private insurance companies would give me a risk score that will dictate my rates, I’m no longer pooled with millions of other ppl to cover costs.


We could solve all of this actually, if Medicare for all just payed for everything. Wonder why they won’t do that

 

[FAH1223]

 

[chico25]

You’re right.

There’s major point your not accounting for. How much will the private plans cost after my taxes for Medicare? To cover other services?

And if I have to pay for Medicare and extra private insurance.

Why can’t I just pay for private insurance that’ll be cheaper and handled by one entity to get the same benefits I would get under “Medicare for all + private insurance”?

Also, private insurance companies would give me a risk score that will dictate my rates, I’m no longer pooled with millions of other ppl to cover costs.


We could solve all of this actually, if Medicare for all just payed for everything. Wonder why they won’t do that

Medicare for all would cover 100% of things that private insurance only covers a portion of with people paying the rest out of pocket. The reason is most likely that they don't want to outright ban private insurance.

 

[Warren Moon]

Medicare for all would cover 100% of things that private insurance only covers a portion of with people paying the rest out of pocket. The reason is most likely that they don't want to outright ban private insurance.

No that’s wrong.

The Facts on Medicare for All

We’ve derailed the thread too much. We’re going to just have ppl decide on their own based off our posts.

We’re both talking in circles at this point. There’s no reason to keep going.

 

[chico25]

No that’s wrong.

The Facts on Medicare for All

We’ve derailed the thread too much. We’re going to just have ppl decide on their own based off our posts.

We’re both talking in circles at this point. There’s no reason to keep going.

Okay agree to disagree.

A link to the bill for those who want to read it.

Text - S.1129 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): Medicare for All Act of 2019

 

[DerrtySouthpaw]

I was just about to come in here and say this after catching up on the debate news. Biden is a straight up condescending racist, yet denies it. Trump is just an honest racist. That's the only difference between the two.

I can't believe Black folks are willing to vote for this man.

I’m one of the nikkas in here screamin for Biden to run in 16 cause I think (and still do) he had a better chance to beat trump than her. It’s weird cause idk what’s worse. The shyt he said back then or the shyt he’s saying now to defend it. It didn’t take much vetting to find this stuff and if Obama knew all this, asked him about it and was still cool with it he fukked up majorly. Still the greatest president of my life time but still. That’s a MAJOR fukk up. Hope Liz or Bernie take his head off and put it on a pike for the world to see

 

[Dillah810]

I pretty much agree 100% on this guy:

at "Got Em!" at 8:22

 

[Pressure]

The problem with what you’re saying is that’s it’s not true. Maybe if you’re black like me or @dora_da_destroyer then you can be highly educated and successful and care about the plight of the poor. It’s because the struggle is in our blood. But what you fail to acknowledge is that the false idea of meritocracy which is really just about where you start off, is heavily ingrained in the American psyche. So people are not sympathetic. You just laughably asserted that upper middle class people care more about working class people than those people are about themselves. I’ve been a corporate lawyer since my mid 20s and I can assure you that is not true. Those people hated Warren during the Obama years and hated Bernie in 2016. You’re misrepresenting what Warren and Sanders are saying. They aren’t talking about equality of opportunity because Democrats have been offering vague solutions towards that for decades but have been unwilling to do the work to get it done. What they are talking about is making America more equitable and establishing a greater baseline for what rights and what life one should be entitled to strictly on the basis of being a human and an American. That requires moving beyond the conventional American thought. That is the entire economic populism argument, instead of judging American by the stock market or how many jobs are created, judge it by the equality of life of the least well off and talented. They aren’t saying everyone has a right to be Jay Z but they’re saying no one should be in a position where they cannot feel secure in their present and future. And it’s the politics that I’ve been espousing on here for 7 years.

There’s an experiment that was run on MBA students a few years ago and they asked them about this corporate policy that would invest in the local community and raises the equality of life. Everyone agreed. They then asked them what if it would limit shareholder profits, next to no one raised their hand and looked around uncomfortably. It is an entire ideology that we have been raised on of choosing business over the person whenever they come in conflict. Even if the cost to the person is much greater. The whole liberal idea has been about diversifying the class of individuals who make those decisions instead of changing that thought process entirely. Warren isn’t unique in anything she is saying because those policy papers have existed forever and formed the basis of Sanders 2016 largely as well. She’s just selling it to you in a less confrontational way that matches the meritocratic smart person concept that we all have been raised on. Anyone who actually reads the proposals that Warren and Sanders have will see the striking similarity. Bernie is just a dude who went to UChicago and then was an organizer and never became friends with anyone in finance so he has no trouble spitting absolute vitriol at them because he has never been in that world. Warren does it in an aggressive but less vitriolic manner because she was once there. It is why their bases are union people and liberal professionals respectively. Each has a persona that catches the ear of those sorts of people more so than the other does. Read the policy, their ideas are very very similar. They’re the only two people who would move the country left and it’s why the negative attacks on Warren started last week on CNBC. She’s a legitimate threat now.

You're not even arguing against what I said.

 

[Hood Critic]

So Castro talked himself out the paint?

 

[JoogJoint]

So Castro talked himself out the paint?

Latino sell out.

Democrats ain't ready for Trump. Castro did nothing that wrong for them to them against him like that.