Notice Of Separation: The 2023 NBA Free agency/Off-Season Thread
- Thread starter Morethan1
- Start date
I agree but with Steph far ahead of Magic. When people say Magic is the best PG, they're only answering the question who is the more quintessential archetype of a point guard. That's Magic.
But Steph is the far better player. He would cook him in any era.
I guess it depends on what metric people are using. By advanced numbers, Magic and Steph are actually (and coincidentally enough) both a 24 PER career average (Steph with higher peak seasons than Magic, but also lower lows).
Jordan is above Steph and Magic with a career 27.9 PER (or 29.1, if you omit his last 2 years as a Wizard).
Kobe is below Steph and Magic with a 21.5 PER. (or 23, if you omit his last 3 seasons bc of the ACL).
If you table stats and go by 'tangibles and eye-test, it's trickier... bc Jordan Steph and Kobe have games that are more flexible with other players/systems, whereas Magic was a bit more ball dominant.
steph_harden
Superstar
He would but would we be having this conversation if Steph played with the Blazers instead of the warriors?
Dude had multiple perfect storms come together for him in his career.
What are the odds of his team drafting the 2nd greatest shooter in the era to play alongside him?
What are the odds of his team drafting the most versatile role player of his generation?
What are the odds of his team signing the 2nd best player of his generation in free agency?
Dude’s career was aligned with the stars. And if even one of those events don’t happen he doesn’t have 4 rings and therefore doesn’t get to be in the conversation with Magic.
Steph may have changed the game with his shooting but Magic literally saved the game. Helped make it national then Jordan came thru and made it global.
Steph can never pass up Magic. Magic’s seat at the top 5 is pretty much cemented..
I don't disagree that Steph has been incredibly lucky.
But Magic is one of the few superstars who can rival Steph in terms of how much luck he had as far as having the right pieces around him at the right time.
What are the odds of being drafted by a team and immediately getting to play with one of the candidates for GOAT player still in his prime? Who turns out to have freakish longevity and plays a complimentary position and style of basketball to your own? And getting to play with a second former MVP on top of that who you can learn from?
What are the odds of getting Worthy, Scott & Cooper at the right time?
What are the odds of them having the father of that 2nd greatest shooter ever that you mentioned?
Etc.
cartierhoe
Veteran
I mean Magic even said if the Lakers didn't get the pick he'd go back to school. Magic played with a player who people have in GOAT conversations, yet it never gets brought up when people say Steph had it good. Not that Steph hasn't had it good, but you could say this about any almost other guy in top 10-15 conversations.
He was also lucky that that game 6 in the Finals in his first year basically gave him a game with relatively little pressure and a huge upside. If Kareem doesn't get injured, Lakers likely still win the series and Kareem is the clear FMVP. Kareem probably deserved it anyway regardless of Magic's great closeout game and good overall series.
That's what I tried to bring up the other day with my thread about Magic. He has all the accolades on paper but when you put them in context, many of his accolades seem to have come a bit cheaper than the same awards that other great players won. It's not Magic's fault and he still earned them but it's the truth.
VegetasHairline
Veteran
There’s also been a lot of inflation in the last 10 years tho. House that cost $400K in 2013 is now $700-800k in a lot of places.
steph_harden
Superstar
I'll give you Kareem. But Worthy, Scott & Cooper only became the players they became because of him feeding and creating for them. Scott and Cooper aren't even in the HOF
Whereas Klay is still the 2nd best shooter of the era on any team
KD is still the 2nd best player of the era on any team
And these are the guys he was winning his championships with..
Only guy who's career is vastly different without Steph is Draymond.
Magic was much more essential to the pieces he played with. Hell why you think Kareem was able to play 21 years? Because Magic was making the game so much more easier for him that he could fall back comfortably into a complementary role.
I don't even think you can compare their impacts. Magic did much more. Take KD off alone and we aren't having this conversation.
steph_harden
Superstar
Nba is probably one of the few jobs that exceed inflation tho.
From 2013 to now the inflation rate is 31%
Meaning Kobe making 28mil in 2013 means he'd be at 37mil today.
Jaylen Brown is going to start at 52 mil...
VegetasHairline
Veteran
Brick Muse posting Skip Bayless now!
the hell happened there…why even sign him to begin with just to turn around and do the obvious so damn quickly?
Brick Muse posting Skip Bayless now!
ESPN picked up one of the premier talents on FS1
FS1 picked up 2-3 ppl ESPN let go of
not gonna be looking good for skip (numbers-wise) anytime soon
and forcing lil wayne on the show in lieu of the success of “it is what it is” looks kinda desperate imo