New: US to cut back minimum sentences for some drug offences

No1

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He's limiting issues regarding sentencing. While that's better than we have now, it still is incarceration and there will still be disproportionate arrests and convictions still. Nothing will stop it until this drug war ends. While Holder's actions here are a good step forward, it won't matter if the Feds keep increasing the arrest rates and number of charges.
No. You guys debated the effects of the policy before the actual speech and the specifics were given. It sounds like a lot of you had your minds made up based on soundbites. The fact is this, the U.S. prison population in total is actually decreasing, as I demonstrated in a thread months. It is because of the economy and states being unable to afford it. States like Texas started looking at alternative method. So while these individuals were still technically under the guidance or custody of the state in various programs, they were not incarcerated. It was incremental, but clear. The federal incarceration rate, however, was rising and they were charging people as consistently as ever. Now, with this policy, the national incarceration rate will necessarily go down further because the federal rate will be going down. Courts will be expected to place individuals in more lenient tracks that do not involve prison. Further, symbolically this gives states cover. More liberal states like California have already been looking at alternatives and expect to see many states in the Northeast actually start going this route as well over the next few years. Now, this doesn't solve the problem of the prison industrial complex but it directly combats one of the largest contributors to that enterprise. It is a substantial step, though I would prefer the elimination of mandatory minimum entirely. But this article probably explains it better than I did.




Attorney General Eric Holder announces drug-sentencing reform in San Francisco
By Josh Richman and Thomas Peele

Staff Writers

POSTED: 08/12/2013 11:14:33 AM PDT | UPDATED: ABOUT 3 HOURS AGO


SAN FRANCISCO -- Ushering in a significant shift in the nation's four-decade "war on drugs," Attorney General Eric Holder said Monday that federal prosecutors will stop seeking longer mandatory sentences for many nonviolent drug offenders, part of a broad new effort to focus on violent crimes and national security while reducing the nation's gigantic prison population.

In a speech at the American Bar Association's annual meeting, Holder said the Justice Department would promote drug-treatment and community-service programs as alternatives to prison for many low-level offenders who for years have been caught up in the same strict federal sentencing laws aimed at gang members and drug kingpins.

"By reserving the most severe penalties for serious, high-level or violent drug traffickers, we can better promote public safety, deterrence and rehabilitation, while making our expenditures smarter and more productive," Holder said.


The new strategy would only apply in the federal justice system -- where 47 percent of prisoners are being held on drug convictions -- but drug policy experts said the symbolism is far-reaching. As Holder pointed out, states across the country, including Texas and California, have re-examined drug enforcement and tough sentencing standards to thin out bulging prison populations.

While many drug policy reformers and civil rights advocates applauded the shift, calling it long overdue and a first step, some Republicans decried it as power play by the Obama administration.

In the 1980s, Congress enacted five- or 10-year mandatory minimum prison terms depending on the quantity of drugs, limiting judges' ability to impose shorter sentences. But Holder said prosecutors will no longer list in indictments the amount of drugs found on nonviolent offenders who aren't connected to gangs or cartels, a move that would avoid triggering the mandatory minimums.

Holder said the Justice Department also has expanded the criteria by which elderly inmates who no longer threaten public safety can seek compassionate early release. He's also directing all U.S. Attorneys to create and update comprehensive anti-violence strategies for the areas hardest hit by violent crime.

"We must never stop being tough on crime. But we must also be smart and efficient when battling crime and the conditions and the individual choices that breed it," he said.

Many drug offenses violate both federal and state law, leaving federal and state prosecutors to work out their own policies about who'll prosecute which cases; the Justice Department typically has had little or no role in pursuing those accused of simple possession or even small possession-for-sale cases.

Drug-policy reform advocates have been calling for Congress to eliminate mandatory minimum sentencing laws for years, but said Holder's move was a good first step.

"There's no good reason why the Obama administration couldn't have done something like this during his first term -- and tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Americans have suffered unjustly as a result of their delay," Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, said in a news release. "But that said, President Obama and Attorney General Holder deserve credit for stepping out now, and for doing so in a fairly decisive way."

Will Matthews, spokesman for the American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California, said states must follow Holder's lead and "once and for all abandon the failed and costly policies of the past ... that have left far too many people locked up for far too long who don't need to be kept behind bars to keep our families and communities safe."

But House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte, R-Va., said this is the latest case of the Obama administration "overstepping its constitutional bounds by selectively enforcing our laws and attempting to change them through executive fiat." Though he agrees with many of the policies Holder spoke of Monday, the lawmaker said Holder should work with the "Overcriminalization Task Force" that the Judiciary Committee created months ago rather than acting unilaterally.

"While the Attorney General has the ability to use prosecutorial discretion in individual cases, that authority does not extend to entire categories of people," Goodlatte said.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, however, said she has always opposed mandatory minimums and she commended Holder and Obama for their leadership. Pelosi, D-San Francisco, said she looks forward "to working on legislative efforts to eliminate mandatory minimum sentences once and for all."

The United States accounts for about 5 percent of the world's population, but about 25 percent of its prison inmates. The nation's federal prison system has grown by 800 percent since 1980 and had 219,520 inmates as of last Thursday, 47 percent of whom are behind bars for drug offenses and 49 percent of whom are serving five to 15 years.

"Widespread incarceration at the federal, state, and local levels is both ineffective and unsustainable," Holder said Monday. "It imposes a significant economic burden -- totaling $80 billion in 2010 alone -- and it comes with human and moral costs that are impossible to calculate."

It's also racially disproportionate, he noted, citing a February report showing that black male offenders in recent years have received sentences nearly 20 percent longer than those imposed on white males convicted of similar crimes.

"This isn't just unacceptable: It is shameful," Holder said, announcing he has directed a group of U.S. attorneys to study and suggest solutions to racial disparities in sentencing.

UC Berkeley law professor Robert MacCoun, a drug-policy expert, called Holder's speech "tremendously symbolic" and "a sign that change is starting to take place," though not as huge as eliminating mandatory minimums entirely would be.

Two-thirds of Americans sentenced for drug crimes are in state prisons and not subject to these sentencing reforms, MacCoun noted, but the attorney general has a high bully pulpit. Conservatives might view Holder with suspicion but there's growing consensus that the old policies need to be changed, he said, and this new approach "can only help. It is not as if they are going to double mandatory minimums to spite him."
 

ugksam

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depends on how they wanna define "gang ties" and "cartel ties"
 

You Win Perfect

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just legalize drugs. i find it sad how people even think its ok that the gov dictate what you put inside your own body.

the only reason the war on drugs started was to fill up prisons. drug use will stay the same whether there are laws against it or not.

Its ok to smoke cancer sticks but you can't smoke that other green plant, no way sir.
 

Born2BKing

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Turn a big plus into a negative.

And yall wonder why we always gotta work harder and do more than cacs to get ahead.
Yeah it's a step in the right direction but of course here comes the cats with the bu bu but he didn't completely end the war on drugs rhetoric. What did Bill Clinton who a lot of these dudes love so much, do about the war on drugs?
 

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No. You guys debated the effects of the policy before the actual speech and the specifics were given. It sounds like a lot of you had your minds made up based on soundbites. The fact is this, the U.S. prison population in total is actually decreasing, as I demonstrated in a thread months. It is because of the economy and states being unable to afford it. States like Texas started looking at alternative method. So while these individuals were still technically under the guidance or custody of the state in various programs, they were not incarcerated. It was incremental, but clear.

Do you have a source for this? I actually remembering reading something like that but I can't find it.


The federal incarceration rate, however, was rising and they were charging people as consistently as ever. Now, with this policy, the national incarceration rate will necessarily go down further because the federal rate will be going down. Courts will be expected to place individuals in more lenient tracks that do not involve prison.

I'm not concerned with fluctuations. I'm all for cracking down on prison time, this is a big step. My point was that it won't mean jack shyt if the amount of charges stay the same or increase. While Holder may keep it at lower levels, I'm concerned about the long term (which has no bearing on Holder or Obama). If we go from having 10 prisoners averaging 30 years (arbitrary numbers) to 20 prisoners averaging 15 years, that in no way improves anything. That's just more felons who can't fit back into society because they did or sold drugs. So, as my original point states, the stats when it comes to charges has to decrease as well.

We have a perfect example of what I mean. The Federal Drug Incarceration rates have seen substantial decreases before:

The Bureau of Justice Statistics has released a study which finds that, despite the total number of prisoners incarcerated for drug-related offenses increasing by 57,000 between 1997 and 2004, the proportion of drug offenders to total prisoners in State prison populations stayed steady at 21%. The percentage of Federal prisoners serving time for drug offenses declined from 63% in 1997 to 55% in that same period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate#Growth

We have witnessed an 6% drop in our lifetime, but no one would argue that it actually contributed to any positive. How many of those charged got probation, or supervised releases? That matters to me.

Further, symbolically this gives states cover. More liberal states like California have already been looking at alternatives and expect to see many states in the Northeast actually start going this route as well over the next few years. Now, this doesn't solve the problem of the prison industrial complex but it directly combats one of the largest contributors to that enterprise. It is a substantial step, though I would prefer the elimination of mandatory minimum entirely. But this article probably explains it better than I did.

Like I said, this is a great step forward. So was the Fair Sentencing Act. You won't hear a negative thing about that from me. But the number of people ultimately charged does matter also. So does number of felonies stemming from these charges, regardless of average prison time. A felon is a felon, and I think both you and I agree that it shouldn't be the case for a lot of these cats.
 

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Yeah it's a step in the right direction but of course here comes the cats with the bu bu but he didn't completely end the war on drugs rhetoric. What did Bill Clinton who a lot of these dudes love so much, do about the war on drugs?
I'll take it one step further, people underestimate how far left Obama has taken the democrats, sans drone nsa Obama. The 80's version of the southern strategy based on the willie horton ad covered up the racist innuendos by holding that democrats were weak on crime. Obama has taken that critique and turned it over its head.
health care reform, ending wars, more equality, immigration reform, all thats left is bringing back welfare on steroids. :obama:
 

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Yeah it's a step in the right direction but of course here comes the cats with the bu bu but he didn't completely end the war on drugs rhetoric. What did Bill Clinton who a lot of these dudes love so much, do about the war on drugs?

Well under Clinton and Bush the Federal Drug Incarceration rates decreased by about 6% (97-04 /see source above) but that's not because of anything they did. Probably had more to do with the Economy doing well.

I mean, it's a step in the right direction but it didn't end the war on drugs. Is there a single false word in that statement? Are you arguing that it has?
 

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I don't see how this gets enforced because if a young brother get's popped with a few grams of coke the prosecutor and the judge are still going to have the mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines at their disposal and will use them against the defendant. The one thing prosecutors all around this country care about above all else is getting wins to increase their chances for career advancement and every prosecutor that has ever moved on to elected office has touted their record of being tough on crime especially drug related crime. I don't see individual prosecutor offices through out the nation changing that mindset because of some nebulous "order" by Eric Holder.
Unless you remove the mandatory minimum sentencing laws all of this is just toothless pontificating on the part of Holder and the Obama admin.
 

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I'll take it one step further, people underestimate how far left Obama has taken the democrats, sans drone nsa Obama. The 80's version of the southern strategy based on the willie horton ad covered up the racist innuendos by holding that democrats were weak on crime. Obama has taken that critique and turned it over its head.
health care reform, ending wars, more equality, immigration reform, all thats left is bringing back welfare on steroids. :obama:
Yeah aside from raining death from the sky with little regard for collateral damage and shytting all over citizen's rights to privacy this president is damn near a pinko commie.:what:
 

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I don't see how this gets enforced because if a young brother get's popped with a few grams of coke the prosecutor and the judge are still going to have the mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines at their disposal and will use them against the defendant. The one thing prosecutors all around this country care about above all else is getting wins to increase their chances for career advancement and every prosecutor that has ever moved on to elected office has touted their record of being tough on crime especially drug related crime. I don't see individual prosecutor offices through out the nation changing that mindset because of some nebulous "order" by Eric Holder.
Unless you remove the mandatory minimum sentencing laws all of this is just toothless pontificating on the part of Holder and the Obama admin.

Yea, but in the scenario you gave the blame doesn't really fall on Obama or Holder does it? You know I don't ride for them like that either.

It's an important step for the Attorney General to get up there and say "Damn, we have an 800% increase in Federal Incarceration Rates since 1980" and "We should try to lower that" [paraphrasing on both accounts]. Won't get any hate from me.

I would personally like it if they went a level or more of magnitude greater in their reforms, like maybe petition to reclassify Cannabis, but this is a good step. It all depends on how the rest of the machine is going to work in regards to it.
 

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Yea, but in the scenario you gave the blame doesn't really fall on Obama or Holder does it? You know I don't ride for them like that either.

It's an important step for the Attorney General to get up there and say "Damn, we have an 800% increase in Federal Incarceration Rates since 1980" and "We should try to lower that" [paraphrasing on both accounts]. Won't get any hate from me.

I would personally like it if they went a level or more of magnitude greater in their reforms, like maybe petition to reclassify Cannabis, but this is a good step. It all depends on how the rest of the machine is going to work in regards to it.
I wasn't really blaming them for anything just pointing out that this announcement is nice as far as the optics are concerned but it really amounts to little. If the Obama Admin and the Dems want to do something then there would be a concerted effort to get rid of the mandatory sentencing laws but that will never happen because it is too easy for pols to use the "tough on crime" bullshyt to get elected.
 

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Yeah aside from raining death from the sky with little regard for collateral damage and shytting all over citizen's rights to privacy this president is damn near a pinko commie.:what:

Yea, and he conveniently ALWAYS leaves out that Reaganomics is alive and well under Obama , that the healthcare act was a Big Business GOP idea, and that immigration reform is about as close to a bi-partisan move we have seen around these parts.
 

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I wasn't really blaming them for anything just pointing out that this announcement is nice as far as the optics are concerned but it really amounts to little. If the Obama Admin and the Dems want to do something then there would be a concerted effort to get rid of the mandatory sentencing laws but that will never happen because it is too easy for pols to use the "tough on crime" bullshyt to get elected.

shyt, I just re-read what BarNone posted. I thought they were going to get rid of the mandatory minimum sentencing laws. Turns out they are not.

Okay, I see what you're saying now.
 

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Yeah aside from raining death from the sky with little regard for collateral damage and shytting all over citizen's rights to privacy this president is damn near a pinko commie.:what:
Progressives cant have their cake and eat it too. Obama is clearly to the left of Clinton but he wisely doesn't stray into the territory of the McGovern wing of the party. His 'death from the sky' is clearly more efficient than Truman's, or all other previous deaths from the sky (including God j/k), plus it does what has confounded the US military since Vietnam, minimize US casualities = minimal homeland outrage = higher probablity of actually winning a war.
The NSA is problematic, but a public that willingly puts their business out in the street should not be shocked to find out somebody has made good use of it, let alone the gubmint.
 
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