JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
Am I the only one who felt the Knicks played better defensively when Noah was out there?
My Posse's On Broadway: Official NY Knicks 2016-2017 Season Thread
- Thread starter onelastdeath
- Start date
I can't help it that your fellow Knick fans would like to know my opinion on the Knicks, just say my name breh.
KnickstapeCity
BigDikktapeCity :shaq:
@Malta is a diehard Knicks fan. Breh is from Brooklyn. He cool.I can't help it that your fellow Knick fans would like to know my opinion on the Knicks, just say my name breh.
@Mr. Jack Napier I do agree with you though, breh. shyts gotten out of hand.
mvp_status
Superstar
So our two biggest contracts are currently playing like trash. Wonderful
seemorecizzy
Superstar
Mayb
But hes still washed
storyteller
Superstar
Well this was an interesting one...the offense was purring when Rose came out and dished three quick assists; smartly timed isolations were drawing fouls and easy looks for both Rose and Melo early, and the bench came in and did their thing. All of that got blown up when Enes Kanter came in and the Thunder started switching to a two Center line-up. Melo didn't just cool off, Roberson took his lunch money but he kept shooting anyway. Rose for all his brilliant drives had one more assist the rest of the way and his tunnel vision on PnR took away any efficacy from KP's face up game. KP and Noah combined for 8 boards or 10 less than Russell Westbrook had alone. The Knicks got outmuscled, outhustled and lost every single battle for position down low. The team has struggled with physicality all year, but my God...Melo turns into Welo against physical defense almost every time; Rose didn't adjust to Westbrook crashing the boards by BOXING HIM OUT; KP and Noah got punked and the bench didn't provide much but also didn't get many opportunities from a coach who I felt relied WAY too heavily on a starting line-up that had the wrong mentality.
Rose: 10 for 20, 30 points, 7 boards, 4 assists and drew ten FTA's which he converted for 100%...but I would categorize the impact of those numbers as mediocre after the first quarter. For one, he relied pretty heavily on help against Russell Westbrook which makes some sense...but once the shot was up, he ended his defensive play and looked to fast break. This meant you could catch Russ flying into the lane on two step gathers and out-muscling seven footers off of momentum. The Thunder routinely flooded the paint in attempts to contain Rose and he still scored efficiently; but he left open men with better looks consistently. It meant a fairly busted rhythm for anyone not named Derrick. The one on one battle with Russ overtook the "I'm the point guard and need to keep everyone involved" portion of Rose's game.
Lee: Kind of a welcome back game from do it all Lee. He shot well when left open, though he did miss some gimmes. His defense on Oladipo was really strong and late in the game even though Westbrook was scoring, I thought he made dude work for the buckets. 13 points on 5-10 shots and a couple of steals were the stand outs. Lee's three point shooting was back (3-5) and his defense was strong, essentially the only two way starter last night.
Melo: Cats writing a post mortem for Melo should relax and breath a minute. This is absolutely the worst 2 game stretch of his season so far and I'm assuming it tanked his efficiency numbers back to the median for his career...but bare in mind that before these 2 games he was running career numbers in efficiency and had been pretty much impossible to guard without help. All of that out of the way; Roberson took his soul with tough physical defense and after a beautiful first quarter with rim attacking, he decided to rely on the refs instead of going strong (I've called out Jennings for this a few times). Not only was he driving into traffic with no real muscle; but he had the same tunnel vision as Rose. This meant that on the two sets that we typically run to start a play; the initial ball handlers were isolating...ball movement, dead. On defense, he was leaving Roberson alone outside which makes sense...dude is trash shooting the ball, but Roberson converted them including one at a crucial fourth quarter point in the game. 4-19 after starting 3-5....garbage and 8 boards ain't making up for that.
KP: Part of his struggles were that the bigger bodies on him took away most opportunities to get good position on the inside (he's not ready to be a full time center folks). On face-ups he flashed some really nice crossovers for his size but he didn't convert on pull-ups off of them (they're low efficiency shots for anyone, the types we dog Melo for). Where he was most effective was catch and shoot or in transition with full speed to the rack...but as noted, neither Rose nor Melo was really looking for anyone but themselves, so he didn't get as many of these as he REALLY should have. We're talking dude was wide open often and a few more three's would have run one of Kanter/Adams off the floor to stop the horror movie type massacre that was happening on the board.
Noah: The good, 4 assists from some really brilliant 1st quarter passing. The team actually ran better through him for bits of time than it did through the PG. That's it for the good. Adams overwhelmed him, outmuscled him and bodied him up. He grabbed 3 boards...3. The blocks might fool you into thinking his interior defense was good, not even close. He's still not offering anything in terms of scoring or threatening to score either. There was very little good to come of this and I found myself frustrated that he was even out there in the fourth quarter because of how little he was really accomplishing.
BJ: Played 13 minutes in a game where ball movement came to the Garden to die...and some of those minutes came in two PG sets where Rose was the dominant ball handler. So with no effective ball movement, the most creative and effective playmaker on the team so far was neutered. He wasn't great defensively, but the one point in the second half where ball movement flowed was a period where BJ and the second unit made Melo watch two or three passes before he got a touch.
Holiday: 4 points and 4 boards in 15 minutes and frankly, I think he probably should have been out there more. Like I just mentioned, BJ sparked some ball movement and Holiday was a big help because he was in motion off the rock. He didn't have much time or many touches to have a big impact, the numbers reflect that, but just the fact that he was in perpetual motion made the offense look better. Defensively, he was a let down...I have no clue why Morrow gave him so many problems and the game was too ugly for me to run it back and try to find out.
Kuz: In 7 minutes Kuz had 4 points and 2 assists. Not much time to get a big take on his game, I didn't hate anything he was doing but he didn't particularly stand out either.
Kylo: 6 boards in 17 minutes, but the big flaw for him was that Kanter's scoring ability and height advantage were a bit too much for Kyle. Like every big on the roster, he got outmuscled and outsized but in what's becoming a common facet, he was probably our toughest big out there.
Willy: 8 points, 3 assists and a couple of steals in just 14 minutes. Where his performance gets dogged is just like every other big, he wasn't any good on the boards. He's usually better at boxing out and getting after it, but he seemed a step slow in this one and he was getting boxed out consistently.
Ndour: Against bigger line-ups, I think he should be in a suit while Plumlee gets to use his 6 fouls letting bigs know that the elbowing and standing comfortably in the paint won't fly. Instead Ndour played for 1 minutes and managed to miss 2 FGA's in that span.
Hornacek: One of his worst performances as the Knicks coach. He's typically solid to good as a coach, but he got worked in this one because he relied to heavily on Iso offense without reining in his team. He didn't give BJ a chance to spark ball movement, Kuz was fairly productive but didn't get a second look, Melo was mentally shot but kept getting touches and the Lee/Holiday wing combo that might have helped defensively was no where to be found. It's a bit of a statement that even with such an ugly, stagnant game the Knicks put up 103; but considering the pace...nah...nothing special. He needs to tell teach these cats boxing out apparently...that's not really his fault though, boxing out is one of the first things you're supposed to learn.
Random: Russ is really good. Even shooting an inefficient amount, it's the perpetual attack from him that makes a guy like Steven Adams look effective with one post move or a cat like Roberson able to impact the game with virtually no offensive ability.
Rose: 10 for 20, 30 points, 7 boards, 4 assists and drew ten FTA's which he converted for 100%...but I would categorize the impact of those numbers as mediocre after the first quarter. For one, he relied pretty heavily on help against Russell Westbrook which makes some sense...but once the shot was up, he ended his defensive play and looked to fast break. This meant you could catch Russ flying into the lane on two step gathers and out-muscling seven footers off of momentum. The Thunder routinely flooded the paint in attempts to contain Rose and he still scored efficiently; but he left open men with better looks consistently. It meant a fairly busted rhythm for anyone not named Derrick. The one on one battle with Russ overtook the "I'm the point guard and need to keep everyone involved" portion of Rose's game.
Lee: Kind of a welcome back game from do it all Lee. He shot well when left open, though he did miss some gimmes. His defense on Oladipo was really strong and late in the game even though Westbrook was scoring, I thought he made dude work for the buckets. 13 points on 5-10 shots and a couple of steals were the stand outs. Lee's three point shooting was back (3-5) and his defense was strong, essentially the only two way starter last night.
Melo: Cats writing a post mortem for Melo should relax and breath a minute. This is absolutely the worst 2 game stretch of his season so far and I'm assuming it tanked his efficiency numbers back to the median for his career...but bare in mind that before these 2 games he was running career numbers in efficiency and had been pretty much impossible to guard without help. All of that out of the way; Roberson took his soul with tough physical defense and after a beautiful first quarter with rim attacking, he decided to rely on the refs instead of going strong (I've called out Jennings for this a few times). Not only was he driving into traffic with no real muscle; but he had the same tunnel vision as Rose. This meant that on the two sets that we typically run to start a play; the initial ball handlers were isolating...ball movement, dead. On defense, he was leaving Roberson alone outside which makes sense...dude is trash shooting the ball, but Roberson converted them including one at a crucial fourth quarter point in the game. 4-19 after starting 3-5....garbage and 8 boards ain't making up for that.
KP: Part of his struggles were that the bigger bodies on him took away most opportunities to get good position on the inside (he's not ready to be a full time center folks). On face-ups he flashed some really nice crossovers for his size but he didn't convert on pull-ups off of them (they're low efficiency shots for anyone, the types we dog Melo for). Where he was most effective was catch and shoot or in transition with full speed to the rack...but as noted, neither Rose nor Melo was really looking for anyone but themselves, so he didn't get as many of these as he REALLY should have. We're talking dude was wide open often and a few more three's would have run one of Kanter/Adams off the floor to stop the horror movie type massacre that was happening on the board.
Noah: The good, 4 assists from some really brilliant 1st quarter passing. The team actually ran better through him for bits of time than it did through the PG. That's it for the good. Adams overwhelmed him, outmuscled him and bodied him up. He grabbed 3 boards...3. The blocks might fool you into thinking his interior defense was good, not even close. He's still not offering anything in terms of scoring or threatening to score either. There was very little good to come of this and I found myself frustrated that he was even out there in the fourth quarter because of how little he was really accomplishing.
BJ: Played 13 minutes in a game where ball movement came to the Garden to die...and some of those minutes came in two PG sets where Rose was the dominant ball handler. So with no effective ball movement, the most creative and effective playmaker on the team so far was neutered. He wasn't great defensively, but the one point in the second half where ball movement flowed was a period where BJ and the second unit made Melo watch two or three passes before he got a touch.
Holiday: 4 points and 4 boards in 15 minutes and frankly, I think he probably should have been out there more. Like I just mentioned, BJ sparked some ball movement and Holiday was a big help because he was in motion off the rock. He didn't have much time or many touches to have a big impact, the numbers reflect that, but just the fact that he was in perpetual motion made the offense look better. Defensively, he was a let down...I have no clue why Morrow gave him so many problems and the game was too ugly for me to run it back and try to find out.
Kuz: In 7 minutes Kuz had 4 points and 2 assists. Not much time to get a big take on his game, I didn't hate anything he was doing but he didn't particularly stand out either.
Kylo: 6 boards in 17 minutes, but the big flaw for him was that Kanter's scoring ability and height advantage were a bit too much for Kyle. Like every big on the roster, he got outmuscled and outsized but in what's becoming a common facet, he was probably our toughest big out there.
Willy: 8 points, 3 assists and a couple of steals in just 14 minutes. Where his performance gets dogged is just like every other big, he wasn't any good on the boards. He's usually better at boxing out and getting after it, but he seemed a step slow in this one and he was getting boxed out consistently.
Ndour: Against bigger line-ups, I think he should be in a suit while Plumlee gets to use his 6 fouls letting bigs know that the elbowing and standing comfortably in the paint won't fly. Instead Ndour played for 1 minutes and managed to miss 2 FGA's in that span.
Hornacek: One of his worst performances as the Knicks coach. He's typically solid to good as a coach, but he got worked in this one because he relied to heavily on Iso offense without reining in his team. He didn't give BJ a chance to spark ball movement, Kuz was fairly productive but didn't get a second look, Melo was mentally shot but kept getting touches and the Lee/Holiday wing combo that might have helped defensively was no where to be found. It's a bit of a statement that even with such an ugly, stagnant game the Knicks put up 103; but considering the pace...nah...nothing special. He needs to tell teach these cats boxing out apparently...that's not really his fault though, boxing out is one of the first things you're supposed to learn.
Random: Russ is really good. Even shooting an inefficient amount, it's the perpetual attack from him that makes a guy like Steven Adams look effective with one post move or a cat like Roberson able to impact the game with virtually no offensive ability.
KingJudah2
All Star
nikkas forgetting 3 games in 4 nights. Melo is 32.
You nikkas act like bytches with the histrionics
You nikkas act like bytches with the histrionics
Columbo
Lieutenant
Its not time to give Melo the flat top yet, yall need to chill 
Noah on the other hand
Noah on the other hand
keep it real...Melo was a bit tight that KP was taking several more shots than he was early in the game, and started chuckin it. He fukked the flow up, and kept forgetting to spread his arms out to at least contest Roberson's shots. #period
Ironman
#Knickstape
Yea Noah is definitely done
Our season is far from over though and I expect a bounce back from ball movement period on Wednesday 
Our season is far from over though and I expect a bounce back from ball movement period on Wednesday 
I enjoyed Noah's contribution.
I really think it's about expert level coaching. Hornacek has been more than great on rotations with this new roster; I really feel like a modification of when and where Noah is on the floor will do wonders for even a man we can argue deserves a flat top.
Noah should start, to save face this year, but he should be subbed out WITH Porzingis middle of the 1st quarter. He probably shouldn't come back until Melo is subbed back in in the 2nd quarter.
Noah should finish out the end of the 3rd quarter and probably not be placed in the 4th quarter except in niche scenarios.
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People know me as a Melo faithful. I will defend him when necessary and I definitely believe he gets more heat than he deserves. I really do try to be objective though. And yesterday, the KP freeze out at the end of the 2nd Quarter left me in an extremely frustrated state. Numerous times Porzingis flailed his arms demanding the ball and both Melo and Rose were acting like Thanksgiving dinner turned them into best friends on the court on some Arthur Agee and Shannon Hoop Dreams.
I could absolutely TELL that Kristaps was annoyed and I was, too. I will continue to argue that both Melo and Rose have contributed to more wins than loses in their talent and offensive capabilities. [Be honest, the Knicks failed tenure w/ Melo was because of a poor roster more than any shooting Melo does.
I really hope Hornacek talks to them. I still think an enjoyable season can be had.
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Timberwolves should be an easy 2 game win streak for the Knicks in my opinion. There's been a lot of ifs but it's just the truth that a move back towards the offense that we've shown we can provide plus an average effort on defense for 48 minutes will be an easy recipe for some Ws.
@storyteller at the end of the game last night, I thought about your recap and hoped that yo'd still provide some optimism in your analysis...
Low key, you did. Thank you. The game and your analysis left me with an idea that a break down of what we actually can do is what caused that loss; I'm happy you didn't think this should be the Knicks - from coach to player - we expect moving forward.
I really think it's about expert level coaching. Hornacek has been more than great on rotations with this new roster; I really feel like a modification of when and where Noah is on the floor will do wonders for even a man we can argue deserves a flat top.
Noah should start, to save face this year, but he should be subbed out WITH Porzingis middle of the 1st quarter. He probably shouldn't come back until Melo is subbed back in in the 2nd quarter.
Noah should finish out the end of the 3rd quarter and probably not be placed in the 4th quarter except in niche scenarios.
-------------------------------------------------------
People know me as a Melo faithful. I will defend him when necessary and I definitely believe he gets more heat than he deserves. I really do try to be objective though. And yesterday, the KP freeze out at the end of the 2nd Quarter left me in an extremely frustrated state. Numerous times Porzingis flailed his arms demanding the ball and both Melo and Rose were acting like Thanksgiving dinner turned them into best friends on the court on some Arthur Agee and Shannon Hoop Dreams.
I could absolutely TELL that Kristaps was annoyed and I was, too. I will continue to argue that both Melo and Rose have contributed to more wins than loses in their talent and offensive capabilities. [Be honest, the Knicks failed tenure w/ Melo was because of a poor roster more than any shooting Melo does.
I really hope Hornacek talks to them. I still think an enjoyable season can be had.
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Timberwolves should be an easy 2 game win streak for the Knicks in my opinion. There's been a lot of ifs but it's just the truth that a move back towards the offense that we've shown we can provide plus an average effort on defense for 48 minutes will be an easy recipe for some Ws.
@storyteller at the end of the game last night, I thought about your recap and hoped that yo'd still provide some optimism in your analysis...
Low key, you did. Thank you. The game and your analysis left me with an idea that a break down of what we actually can do is what caused that loss; I'm happy you didn't think this should be the Knicks - from coach to player - we expect moving forward.
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Being around a basketball environment all my life, I always loved seeing brehs who were big on some Shaq shyt, or overweight, dribble like a guard when playing street ball.
Typically, they'd do it before teams were picked and just messing around because the size and weight makes it hard to actively beat a defender on the dribble. It ALWAYS looked awkward in game...
When I see Porzingis constantly trying to do this...
IT PLEASANTLY SCARES THE shyt OUT OF ME... in regards to his potential.
Could you imagine that? If we'd be able to set up an iso play where he gets the ball on the weak side w/ Melo or a shooter, the center/pf guarding him w/ have to play close and once he gets into dribble drive, Melo's man WOULD HAVE to play help defender because Porzingis will embarrass any big man not named Embiid, KAT, or Anthony Davis on the one on one.
fukking Scary.
Typically, they'd do it before teams were picked and just messing around because the size and weight makes it hard to actively beat a defender on the dribble. It ALWAYS looked awkward in game...
When I see Porzingis constantly trying to do this...
IT PLEASANTLY SCARES THE shyt OUT OF ME... in regards to his potential.
Could you imagine that? If we'd be able to set up an iso play where he gets the ball on the weak side w/ Melo or a shooter, the center/pf guarding him w/ have to play close and once he gets into dribble drive, Melo's man WOULD HAVE to play help defender because Porzingis will embarrass any big man not named Embiid, KAT, or Anthony Davis on the one on one.
fukking Scary.
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
we brought him here to improve the team defense and to be a distributor on the court. He's doing both...
He'll step up in the playoffs and bring both of those talents up to a new level which we're gonna need against the better teams in the East
Well, I don't know that this is true.
They certainly have an eye for international talent. But they're picks of college players are as follows:
Jerian Grant - Taken over Bobby Portis, Rondae Hollis Jefferson, Larry Nance Jr. and Norman Powell.
Cleanthony Early - Taken over Jerami Grant, Nikola Jokic, and Jordan Clarkson
Tim Hardaway Jr. - Taken over Rudy Gobert, Andre Roberson, and Allen Crabbe
And last year, with PLENTY of intriguing talent left on the board in the late first and into the second, they refused to buy a pick and add another potential young piece.
Now, the draft is all hindsight. So it's easy to nit pick. But they've had 6 or so picks over the last three years (plus the opportunity for another one or two) and turned that into 1 star from the lone lottery pick, and one role player, who they found while scouting KP.
Nah. Noah's deal is a disaster. He's exactly who we thought he was - an aging big, with no explosion left, who can't cover the court the way he needs to, can't elevate, and has absolutely no ability to make him a threat on offense.
I like noah, and always have. When dudes hated on him out of college, I loved his skillset. But he can't compete with the kind of athletes he's expected to play against each night, and it feels like his offense has even taken a step back from where it was. He still passes and plays hard, but this is the kind of guy you should be paying 6-8 Million per to be a vet presence and a backup, not 72 million to be a starter.
That's on phil, and this goes back to what I said about the Knicks scouting department up top of this post -- they should have known, all of this was on tape.
This "he'll step it up in the playoffs" shyt is a dream. And before you make the playoffs and likely get booted in the first round by a top 2 seed, you gotta play 82 games. It's a shame, but denial isn't going to do anybody any good.
