Mike Tomlin skating on thin ice

resurrection

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Another complete abomination

Offense looked decent (save the early turnover that handed them 7 points) but the defense, as it always does, made a no-name mediocre QB look like Joe fukking Montana.. Made the offense play turtle ball when all we needed was one first down to ice it and just ran it into the line 3 times..

ONCE AGAIN pissing away a 4th quarter lead with the game in the bag. Got the ball back under 2 minutes with a 4 point lead AND LOST.. TO A TEAM WHO WAS LUCKY TO ONLY LOSE BY 42 POINTS LAST WEEK

Jesus fukking Christ I am so done with this coach and this horrific defense
 

GatorStaceyAdams

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Another complete abomination

Offense looked decent (save the early turnover that handed them 7 points) but the defense, as it always does, made a no-name mediocre QB look like Joe fukking Montana

ONCE AGAIN pissing away a 4th quarter lead with the game in the bag. Got the ball back under 2 minutes with a 4 point lead AND LOST.. TO A TEAM WHO WAS LUCKY TO ONLY LOSE BY 42 POINTS LAST WEEK

Jesus fukking Christ I am so done with this coach and this horrific defense
:rudy:

Yea it was a terrible game. Yea we should not have lost- but shyt happens when you lose 3 of your starting players on defense. Tomlin has to be held accountable for the penalties, but we discussing firing a coach for being 2-2?

Ive already said it before, but @resurrection?:ufdup:

Just difficult for me to understand a Steeler fan, who apparently is also a brother(:usure:), would re-up a bullshyt thread such as this:patrice:
 

resurrection

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:rudy:

Yea it was a terrible game. Yea we should not have lost- but shyt happens when you lose 3 of your starting players on defense. Tomlin has to be held accountable for the penalties, but we discussing firing a coach for being 2-2?

Ive already said it before, but @resurrection?:ufdup:

Just difficult for me to understand a Steeler fan, who apparently is also a brother(:usure:), would re-up a bullshyt thread such as this:patrice:
First of all, I'm not a brother.. And second of all, how did you not find that game to be a complete coaching embarrassment between the penalties, losing to a winless team who lost by 42 points last week, and pissing away a 4th quarter lead to a no-name QB? This is what Tomlin teams have BEEN doing, this exact situation is exactly why I've been posting in this thread. I knew the game was over when we put it in our defense's hands to try to win the game because, shock surprise, they CAN'T.
 

GatorStaceyAdams

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First of all, I'm not a brother.. And second of all, how did you not find that game to be a complete coaching embarrassment between the penalties, losing to a winless team who lost by 42 points last week, and pissing away a 4th quarter lead to a no-name QB? This is what Tomlin teams have BEEN doing, this exact situation is exactly why I've been posting in this thread. I knew the game was over when we put it in our defense's hands to try to win the game because, shock surprise, they CAN'T.

:sas2: Well that wasnt too hard to decipher

In any case- sure, Tomlin has lost to poor teams, but so does everyone... I am pretty sure ATL wasn't counting on losing to a rookie QB without its main offensive weapon.

What I do know is that Tomlin has won much more than he has lost- and that he has earned the right to guide this team during its transition. Because, like it or not, this team is in a transition. And it doesn't help when your last two 1st round picks are on the sideline.

Cowher went thru his own transition and the team strung together several losing seasons. Tomlin has actually fared much better, but all you hear is "Tomlin is too friendly with the players" or that "Tomlin is a Rooney Rule hire".

I am just thankful that the Rooney's arent as impulsive or as passively racists as some Steeler fans...
 

resurrection

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Just because I can spot the flaws in Tomlin's coaching after 8 seasons doesn't mean I'm impulsive or passively racist

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2014/09/28/column-why-exactly-is-tomlin-untouchable/

Column: Why exactly is Tomlin untouchable?
September 28, 2014
DEJAN KOVACEVIC, DK ON PITTSBURGH SPORTS


Brad Wing’s head was buried deep in his stall, both hands draping that surfer-dude hair, maybe even clenching. It was hard to tell. No body part was so much as budging.

Yeah, blame the punter.

Blame the rookie punter whose 29-yard shank set the ball on a tee for Tampa Bay to drive toward the winning touchdown with seven seconds left and stun the Steelers, 27-24, Sunday at Heinz Field.

Or blame Kelvin Beachum for being so porous at left tackle he couldn’t have blocked a nuisance tweeter. Two sacks allowed, two holding penalties and countless questions about his ability to protect Ben Roethlisberger.

Or blame Cortez Allen, who couldn’t cover a baby with a blanket but absolutely could cover everyone’s tab after that silly extension signed just before the season.

Or go right ahead and blame, as Mike Tomlin strongly suggested, the 13 penalties the Steelers took for 125 yards, including six 15-yarders. He called that “unacceptable,” “inexcusable” and “ridiculous” before the first question could reach his postgame podium.

But when you do blame the penalties, be sure you do so in a complete vacuum.

Because that’s what this coach did.

“The bottom line is we’re an undisciplined group,” Tomlin said. “Obviously, we are not coaching it. We are allowing it to happen, so I take responsibility for that.”

Wait, what?

If the Steelers’ coaches aren’t coaching the most dominant trait their players have displayed to this point in the season, then pardon my failure to buy the “obvious,” but who the hell is?

There is no sport played on this planet, not at any level, where discipline is not a direct reflection of the head coach or manager. Not one.

Tomlin continued: “We need to fix it. And if we don’t, we’ll continue to lose close football games. It’s just that simple. Some of the penalties are technical or orientation-like, facemasks and things of that nature. Our tackling technique needs to improve. But some of the pre-snap, post-snap, post-play penalties are just lacking discipline. We have to fix it. I have to fix it. And I will.”

Really?

I reminded Tomlin that he spoke almost exactly the same words after the Week 2 loss in Baltimore and, further, asked what might make this occasion different.

“Every time you step into a stadium, you get an opportunity to rectify all your ills. And I expect us to continue to do that. We aren’t going to change how we work. I think how we work is appropriate. We’re not getting the desired results. We have to focus on that.”

OK, now file that away and watch the reactions of Roethlisberger, Miller and Allen in the adjacent locker room when I asked about the Steelers lacking discipline:





Hey, that message really hit home, huh?

There was more of that shrugging sentiment, too, none stronger than Pouncey’s: “Lack of discipline? What do you mean?” Told that’s what his coach just said, Pouncey came back, “Did he? You’ll have to go ask him about it.”

Pouncey isn’t just anybody in that room, mind you. Neither are Roethlisberger or Miller. Their words carry weight, their actions more. And all anyone could get from anyone — and I didn’t talk to all 53, but it was quite a few — was a great big huh to the whole concept.

To wit, Antonio Brown, when asked directly about Tomlin’s statement: “We just have to get back to winning.”

There’s your problem.

Don’t kid yourself by indulging in minutiae. Wing should never have punted a single time against an opponent that allowed a white-flag 56 points last week to the Falcons. Beachum never would have been a factor if he’d been assigned early help, as happened in Carolina. Allen … well, Allen’s a real sore spot regardless of circumstance.

But this team’s primary problem right now — and bite my head off for saying it — is that it’s performing below its talent level. Any offense with Roethlisberger, Brown, Miller, Le’Veon Bell and a line loaded with early-round draft picks can’t be scoring just 24 on the Bucs. Or six against the Ravens. And any defense with Lawrence Timmons, Cam Heyward, Troy Polamalu and plenty enough pieces to at least get by can’t be getting picked apart on a critical drive by … hang on, I have to look up his name again … oh, yeah, Mike Glennon. The backup QB for a team that doesn’t really have a starter.

This is the dirty little secret that’s in play here, if you will. The Steelers are hardly loaded, but they do have players, and they’re a damn sight better than 2-2. The blowout of the Panthers illustrated that powerfully. That wasn’t an accident. That was an annihilation of a previously undefeated opponent in their home on prime time.

Once you factor in the additional elements of dubious offensive play-calling such as that comical third-and-5 handoff with the game on the line, dubious defensive alignments such as the entire middle of the field left untended for Louis Murphy’s 41-yard catch-and-run that took Tampa Bay to the Steelers’ 5, you’re getting warm.

From there, toss in all those penalties, and you’re really getting warm.

This isn’t a well coached football team.

Sure, it’s got experienced coaches. It’s got coaches who have won. But it’s also possible, in that very context, that their preachings and practices are not only stale but also stubborn.

Let’s revisit the Steelers’ opening series, the one where, at least figuratively, they could have reminded the Bucs of all the pain of a week earlier: Fullback screen for no gain, sack, sack for a lost fumble, touchdown Tampa Bay.

That really happened. It really happened that, in having a full week to script offensive plays, Tomlin, Todd Haley et al presumably gave a resounding thumbs-up to trying to trick a defense that pretty much rolled out the red carpet for the Falcons. They wanted to show how clever they were.

You want to talk “unacceptable” and “inexcusable,” start right at the start.

How about leaving Allen and Willie Gay in man coverage all afternoon?

This one goes on dikk LeBeau and, ultimately, Tomlin. Because it’s the same stuck-in-2007 approach they were using with Ike Taylor when healthy, which is that they want Taylor or Allen or Gay to be a shutdown corner because that would be ideal for the defense, because that’s how it was when things were great.

Well, things aren’t great. Especially not in the secondary. And pretending otherwise is no less an egregious act of machismo as the fullback screen.

Here’s a news flash, gentlemen: It isn’t about you. It’s about the W.

When your athletes send you the kind of signal they did in Carolina, that they’re good enough to play with the NFL’s best, you don’t send a signal back that they need to get all cute to beat Tampa Bay.

Tomlin is untouchable, of course, or so we’re reminded repeatedly from the inside. That’s just how it is. LeBeau, too. Probably even Haley.

I want to preface this by stressing as emphatically as possible that it isn’t a reaction to one lousy loss, but I still feel compelled to ask: Why?

What if they keep losing?

What if they lose — gasp — at Jacksonville next Sunday?

What if the players continue to tune out the coach, and let’s call the above exactly what it is?

Are they untouchable because Chuck Noll stayed until it was his choice to step down and Bill Cowher stayed until it was his choice to step down, and anything else would be un-Steelers-like?

Fullback screens are un-Steelers-like.

Not having any semblance of accountability for 13 penalties, from Tomlin or the team’s leaders, that’s un-Steelers-like.

Three straight seasons of nearly identical problems, that’s un-Steelers-like.

It’s also a pattern, one that’s in place well above the player level.

Not that the coach would admit that. Remember, they’re not going to change how they work. They’re just going to change the desired results. Like the punts or something.
 

GatorStaceyAdams

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Yea I read DK's posts and it was pretty unintelligible:

1.) 3 straight years of underperforming seasons is un-Steeler like? see '98-'00
2.) He wants players/coaches to comment on the lack of discipline from the coach? The PGH media already goes hard on Tomlin- So he is looking for players to throw the coach under the bus? Thats his premise?!?
3.) He has the nerve to claim that the talent on the defense should have been enough to win the game?!? Everyone knows the D is in transition, and it doesnt help when 3 of them go down the week before.

So I will ask @resurrection again, where does Tomlin fail as a coach in your opinion? Because, for the most part, he has consistently won.

And if you say, its the penalties, I will tell you that the most penalized teams the last several years has been the Ravens and the Seahawks. Do you blame their lack of coaching also?
 

resurrection

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Yea I read DK's posts and it was pretty unintelligible:

1.) 3 straight years of underperforming seasons is un-Steeler like? see '98-'00
2.) He wants players/coaches to comment on the lack of discipline from the coach? The PGH media already goes hard on Tomlin- So he is looking for players to throw the coach under the bus? Thats his premise?!?
3.) He has the nerve to claim that the talent on the defense should have been enough to win the game?!? Everyone knows the D is in transition, and it doesnt help when 3 of them go down the week before.

So I will ask @resurrection again, where does Tomlin fail as a coach in your opinion? Because, for the most part, he has consistently won.

And if you say, its the penalties, I will tell you that the most penalized teams the last several years has been the Ravens and the Seahawks. Do you blame their lack of coaching also?
Man I've stated a bunch of times where I feel Tomlin fails as a coach

-Too relaxed, no sense of urgency: gives up shyt tons of 4th quarter leads (do I really need to list examples?), takes the foot off the gas during games, and even during seasons (see 2012 started off 6-2 ended 8-8), bad game management (see running on 3rd and 5 when we needed a 1st down to ice the game + plenty of other examples in the past 8 years). It's like when he gets the sense the team is doing well, he basically says "alright boys we got this" opening the door for complete and utter disaster.

-Does not get up for bad teams: All you need to do is see my earlier post in this thread for countless examples just in the past 4 seasons of us not showing up to play against bad teams. This happens like 4 or 5 times PER SEASON under Tomlin.

-Bad defensive talent evaluation/development: I hope this does not require any type of elaborating, as anyone with eyes can tell the further we get from the 2000s teams, the more we rely on defensive players Tomlin chose, the worse the team is. I mean, we replaced our first round pass rusher with a journeyman from Buffalo and got an instant upgrade. Hard to say if we're picking bad players, or picking good players and not developing them into anything, or some awful combination of the two - but does it really matter at this point?

-Same mistakes on defense plaguing us that he's sworn to fix: No pass rush, no sacks, no turnovers, bad secondary play, failure to protect 4th quarter leads. All themes, none are just one off flukes. All of these things have been happening CONSISTENTLY since the day we walked off the field at Jerry World after the L to Green Bay. Every loss it's the same bullshyt in the press conference "we are not up to the standard, I will fix this, we take responsibility" but nothing changes because we make the same mistakes over and over again

-Penalties: I don't think I need to say anymore. We were the poster boys for punishment when the player safety rules started taking effect, and we're STILL the poster boys for undisciplined play 4-5 seasons later.

-Lack of discipline: Besides just the penalties which are a huge problem, how about two of your best offensive players getting arrested for weed hours before a preseason game, and your OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR missing a flight to a regular season game against your biggest rivals? No respect, no discipline

-Wins and losses: Sure Tomlin had a great record for his first few years, but he's a flat .500 going on three seasons now in the prime of a HOF QB's career, with many of those losses coming against teams that had a habit of getting their asses kicked by the rest of the league.

Two things I will give him credit for: At least the offense has improved by leaps and bounds, with the best running game in the league and a top 3 WR. And he is very good at taking a talented group of guys who were already established winners in the league and helping them win more.

I just don't see how anyone can look at all these facts and think "hey, that coach is doing a good job" unless you are seeing what you want to see. I've been a Steelers fan my whole life, I don't want Cowher back because he turtled it up in big games, I believe the Rooney Rule is good for the game, I loved the Tomlin hire at the time, and throughout the beginning of his time here, but am only souring on him based on what I perceive to be his ability to build a team over time. I just call it like I see it, and with everything that has been unfolding in recent seasons, it points to bad coaching. Period
 
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BonafideDefacto

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When i get to the office later I'll finally comment on the state of the Steelers
 

Jplaya2023

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i fear for Mike's job, you can't lose to the bucs at the crib. Maybe he's to buddy buddy with these guys and they don't respect him or fear him like they should
 

resurrection

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i fear for Mike's job, you can't lose to the bucs at the crib. Maybe he's to buddy buddy with these guys and they don't respect him or fear him like they should
Check my post earlier in this thread about who we've lost to since the 2011 season.. This week is part of a trend, not an outlier.

So I guess I'll re-direct @GatorStaceyAdams question back to him: What do you think Tomlin excels at as a coach? Look deeper than the win-loss record which we know was good for the first 5 years with a group of established veteran winners still in their primes.
 

dabestkeptsecret

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i didnt see the game, but how does any team outside the jags, lose to the bucs :dahell:
Tomlin's my man, but i hate it had to be him :to:
 

GatorStaceyAdams

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Check my post earlier in this thread about who we've lost to since the 2011 season.. This week is part of a trend, not an outlier.

So I guess I'll re-direct @GatorStaceyAdams question back to him: What do you think Tomlin excels at as a coach? Look deeper than the win-loss record which we know was good for the first 5 years with a group of established veteran winners still in their primes.

This is a misguided question...

To ask- "what does Coach XYZ do well?" the answer should always lead back to whether or not it amounts to W's. Thats what coaches are judged by, W/L's- which Tomlin has plenty. No matter how veteran or talented your team may be, you still need a coach to guide them there. The 2006 Steelers, for example, had a MUCH better squad than we had last year but that only equated to 8-8...

We are 8-4 in our last 12 games and sitting at 2-2; All this with several new faces on defense and 1/4 of the starters injured. Sure, Tomlin deserves some criticism, but some of these yinzers are letting their true hatred show...
 

resurrection

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Yeah I'll give you that a lot of yinzers are letting that racism flow and that ol' "Bring back Coach Caaaher", but that's not me. I just really, really detest the direction Tomlin has this team going and I perceive it to start with him and his relaxed, "play it cool", talk-a lot-but-change-nothing approach
 

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Still sidestepping you hoes
 
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