Migrant caravan and Mexico’s Alt-Right/Nationalism

[Berniewood Hogan]

Fleeing murders and dictators does not give you the right to illegally storm another countries border...

yeah it does, frankly

 

[88m3]

Fleeing murders and dictators does not give you the right to illegally storm another countries border...

Doing so may result in you JUSTIFIABLY getting tear gassed, especially when storming said border in a massive caravan...

Gaining entry into a country is a PRIVILEGE not a right and there is a LEGAL process in place to do that...

Wake up...

Not according to international law and the treaties we've signed. Thanks for playing

 

[The Fukin Prophecy]

Not according to international law and the treaties we've signed. Thanks for playing

Is that you KellyAnne?

Quote me one international law and treaty we signed that states entering a foreign country is a RIGHT...

 

[BoBurnz]

Is that you KellyAnne?

Quote me one international law and treaty we signed that states entering a foreign country is a RIGHT...

The basic right of non-refoulement, ratified in the 1951 convention on refugees, casework here (ECtHR - M.S.S. v Belgium and Greece [GC], Application No. 30696/09 | European Database of Asylum Law) which prevents mass expulsion and enfranchises the right to sovereign needs be met. Food, water, shelter. Article 22(8) of the American Convention on Human Rights says non-refoulement is a fundamental aspect of refugee law.

 

[The Fukin Prophecy]

The basic right of non-refoulement, ratified in the 1951 convention on refugees, casework here (ECtHR - M.S.S. v Belgium and Greece [GC], Application No. 30696/09 | European Database of Asylum Law) which prevents mass expulsion and enfranchises the right to sovereign needs be met. Food, water, shelter. Article 22(8) of the American Convention on Human Rights says non-refoulement is a fundamental aspect of refugee law.

Non-refoulement doesn't give you the right to enter and roam a foreign country, it gives you the right to seek asylum...

If your story doesn't check out you can be denied asylum and be returned home...

National Procedures for Claiming Asylum
Typically, refugee status determinations or asylum adjudications are conducted by an official from a designated government department or agency. These officials should have a solid knowledge of refugee law. In most cases, the official will interview the asylum seeker to evaluate his or her evidence and credibility. The burden is on the asylum seeker to prove that he or she meets the definition of a refugee and asylum seekers are encouraged to supply as much supporting evidence as possible. Supporting evidence may take the form of country reports, NGO reports, news articles, affidavits, or the in-person testimony of witnesses.

In accordance with Article 31 of the 1951 Convention, States parties provide in their domestic law that an applicant’s irregular entry (i.e., without an entry visa or other documentation) will not have a negative effect on the asylum seeker’s application. See, e.g., Refugees Act (2014) Cap. 173 § 11(3) (Kenya). Some States, however, do place time restraints on how many days after entry into their country an asylum seeker may make an application. Compare 8 U.S.C. § 1158(a)(2)(B) (U.S.) (imposing a one-year filing deadline on asylum applications, although there are some limited exceptions for extraordinary or changed circumstances) with National Refugee Proclamation, No. 409/2004, art. 13 (Eth.) (stating that asylum applicants shall apply within fifteen days of entry into Ethiopia). In addition to making a claim at the border, individuals in deportation proceedings may also raise an asylum claim, provided their claim is timely.

If the official finds that the asylum seeker has a well-founded fear of persecution based on one of the five grounds, he or she can grant the applicant asylum. Individuals granted asylum receive a residence permit for themselves as well as one for any dependent relatives. See, e.g., The Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, S.C. 2001, ch. 27, art. 95(1)(a) (Can.); 8 U.S.C. § 1158(b)(3)(A) (U.S.). States provide that where the Government denies an asylum application, the asylum seeker is to receive an explanation of the reasons for the denial. See, e.g., Refugees Act (2014) Cap. 173 § 11(6) (Kenya). Asylum seekers have a right to appeal their negative decision. Generally, an applicant may not be removed unless they have exhausted all of their available remedies. See CESEDA, L731-3 (Fr.); but see, Human Rights Watch, France: Amend Immigration Bill to Protect Asylum Seekers (noting that under French law appeal does not suspend expulsion for those placed in the fast-track procedure).

Individuals who are ineligible for asylum may nonetheless be eligible for more limited forms of protection. These include protection under Article 3 of the Convention against Torture, which forbids States parties from extraditing or returning an individual to a country where they risk being tortured or subjected to cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment. States also grant complementary forms of protection, such as withholding of removal, subsidiary protection, and Temporary Protected Status to individuals who do not meet the definition of a refugee but whose life or freedom would be in danger if returned to their country of nationality or country of habitual residence. 8 U.S.C. § 1254, 1231(b)(3) (U.S.); C.E.S.D.A. L712-1 (Fr.).

EDIT: It is also worth noting Article 31 of the 1951 Convention does not grant refugee status to economic migrants which the majority of that caravan likely falls under...

The United Nations 1951 Convention and 1967 Protocol define a refugee as a person who is unable or unwilling to return to his or her home country, and cannot obtain protection in that country, due to past persecution or a well-founded fear of being persecuted in the future “on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.”

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

because we destabilized their home country

Crisis of Honduras democracy has roots in US tacit support for 2009 coup

to act as if these people are some army, and not human beings simply trying to find a safe way to raise their families is a sign of people acting on the interests of a state that doesn't even recognize the humility in the very people it proclaims to protect

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Not illegally storm their border to gain entry into their country...

that wouldn't make either or ok if that was the case to use chemical agents on children and mothers.

I’m a law abiding citizen, so no I have never broken a law.

Secondly, the tear gas was used in response to the migrants trying to breach the barricades, it wasn’t used on peaceful protest. M

So you haven’t made a point.

 

[theworldismine13]

If you were fleeing drug cartels and murderous dictators with your family you wouldn't jump a fence?

Wake up

I would ask for asylum in the first country that I came too after I left my country, the migrants have asylum in Mexico they just refused it

It’s funny cuz a bunch of Haitians ended up in a Tijuana trying to ask asylum in the us, they came to accept reality that they aren’t going to get asylum and they accepted asylum in Mexico and now they have jobs and are working in Mexico, Central Americans should follow what the Haitians did and people like you should stop encouraging people to put their own children in harms way,

FYI the maquiladoras factories in Tijuana are hiring

 

[re'up]

There's been about 2300 murders in Tijuana this year, and will probably close on 2500, in a city with 1.7 million population, that alone is near a humanitarian crisis. I don't think people realize what life is like in Tijuana for the poor and underclasses. It is very hard, and impossibly grim. I love TJ, but I have money, I have the luxury to cross and ride through those neighborhoods in a taxi, eat at a taco stand on a street corner, or a high end spot in Zona Rio. I am insulated from the day to day living in a place where there were 28 killings in the last 24 hours.

Almost all those murders are concentrated in the poorest sections of the city, where migrants and refugees, and the rest of the underclasses live. Can you imagine a life with that level of violence? People are murdered, bodies dropped off, hung from bridges, and children still go to school, still walk by dismembered body parts.

 

[The Fukin Prophecy]

that wouldn't make either or ok if that was the case to use chemical agents on children and mothers.

I don't disagree with you on that...

I do not condone the use of tear gas on women and children...

What I disagree with you on is the idea migrants have the right to storm a countries border, demand entry and said country must bend over and comply...That's not how it works, these people have the right to seek asylum and sovereign countries have the right to protect their borders...There is a LEGAL process for asylum, a thousand people storming a countries border is not that process...

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

american didn't have the right to overthrow their leaders and contentiously sabotage any form of agency and self-determination to the country they from for over 25+ years but they did it anyway.

this is the end result

a settler nation like the United States has no right to sovereignty. any calls for a country such as this to have the "right to protect their borders" is enabling white supremacy.

there are occasions, believe it or not, where it is necessary to break unjust laws.

I don't disagree with you on that...

I do not condone the use of tear gas on women and children...

What I disagree with you on is the idea migrants have the right to storm a countries border, demand entry and said country must bend over and comply...That's not how it works, these people have the right to seek asylum and sovereign countries have the right to protect their borders...There is a LEGAL process for asylum, a thousand people storming a countries border is not that process...

 

[88m3]

I would ask for asylum in the first country that I came too after I left my country, the migrants have asylum in Mexico they just refused it

It’s funny cuz a bunch of Haitians ended up in a Tijuana trying to ask asylum in the us, they came to accept reality that they aren’t going to get asylum and they accepted asylum in Mexico and now they have jobs and are working in Mexico, Central Americans should follow what the Haitians did and people like you should stop encouraging people to put their own children in harms way,

FYI the maquiladoras factories in Tijuana are hiring

I BET YOU WOULD YOU LOVE TO SEEK ASYLUM IN MEXICO YOU SEX TOURIST LOSER


It's hilarious Haitians are stuck in Mexico instead of being able to claim asylum in the US. Gotcha.


You and the @The Fukin Prophecy enjoy your night now

We need more brothers like you two

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

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[The Fukin Prophecy]

there are occasions, believe it or not, where it is necessary to break unjust laws.

True but what we are discussing here is not unjust law nor is the process unreasonable...

You just have an agenda and are too blinded by said agenda to see that...

 

[88m3]

True but what we are discussing here is not unjust law nor is the process unreasonable...

You just have an agenda and are too blinded by said agenda to see that...

You're not arguing in good faith or have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

you think defending imaginary lines on the ground isn't an agenda?

True but what we are discussing here is not unjust law nor is the process unreasonable...

You just have an agenda and are too blinded by said agenda to see that...