Mavs-Wolves Game 2 ended the same way as last year’s 76ers-Celtic game 4….Modern stupid basketball

[Braman]

Spoiler

Last year:

1- Celts up 2, only a 3 beats you. Jaylen brown inexplicably leaves James harden to double Embiid. Embiid kicks to harden for the 3

2- Jayson Tatum passes up the final shot for a contested shot by a role player. After the buzzer. Celts lose

This year:

1- Wolves up 2, only a 3 beats you. Jaden McDaniels dies on the screen. Doncic with the most predictable step back 3 and it’s good

2- Ant passes up the final shot for a contested shot by a role player. No good. Wolves lose.

Modern hoops drives me insane. The fundamentals are shot. Even a first team all defense guy like McDaniels has no bball IQ to know he can afford to fight over that screen. At worst ok you give up a floater by Doncic or a lob . But the game is only tied

And then stars giving up shots. I think it’s a conscious or subconscious side effect of Lebron. He used to STAY making “the right basketball play” that actuallly was not the right basketball play. Role players are supposed to get WIDE OPEN shots as the result of a double. If their shot ends up being contested, it wasn’t the right play. We’d rather YOU take the shot if it’s gonna be contested

Also shot out to Kevin love for showing how to guard the 3 as a big. You give up the drive we can live with a 2, just cover the 3. You know the stepback is coming so don’t overcommit. Gobert goofy ass going for every hesi

Spoiler

 

[Marc Spector]

Spoiler

Last year:

1- Celts up 2, only a 3 beats you. Jaylen brown inexplicably leaves James harden to double Embiid. Embiid kicks to harden for the 3

2- Jayson Tatum passes up the final shot for a contested shot by a role player. After the buzzer. Celts lose

This year:

1- Wolves up 2, only a 3 beats you. Jaden McDaniels dies on the screen. Doncic with the most predictable step back 3 and it’s good

2- Ant passes up the final shot for a contested shot by a role player. No good. Wolves lose.

Modern hoops drives me insane. The fundamentals are shot. Even a first team all defense guy like McDaniels has no bball IQ to know he can afford to fight over that screen. At worst ok you give up a floater by Doncic or a lob . But the game is only tied

And then stars giving up shots. I think it’s a conscious or subconscious side effect of Lebron. He used to STAY making “the right basketball play” that actuallly was not the right basketball play. Role players are supposed to get WIDE OPEN shots as the result of a double. If their shot ends up being contested, it wasn’t the right play. We’d rather YOU take the shot if it’s gonna be contested

Also shot out to Kevin love for showing how to guard the 3 as a big. You give up the drive we can live with a 2, just cover the 3. You know the stepback is coming so don’t overcommit. Gobert goofy ass going for every hesi

Spoiler

2. Role players take big shots all the time in the NbA. havent you ever heard of Kerrs game winner in game 6 of the finals? Fishs shot against san antonio? Robert Horrys entire existence?

Gobert is almost 5 inches taller than Love how can Rudy model his game after him? Very few 7 footers have the footwork and center of gravity to guard a step back three from arguably the best scorer in the NBA . it should not be an indictment on Rudy he should not have been out there on the perimeter guarding Luka in the first place

 

[GoldenGlove]

Modern basketball gonna modern basketball

 

[Cladyclad]

Making a 3 is not easy in crunch time down 2 at all

 

[Braman]

2. Role players take big shots all the time in the NbA. havent you ever heard of Kerrs game winner in game 6 of the finals? Fishs shot against san antonio? Robert Horrys entire existence?

Surprise, someone mentioned Kerr (and paxson) in the 76ers-Celtics thread last year and I shut that down

as far as that being a ‘wide open shot’ sadly this is that LeBron effect, game of telephone. Kicking to a below average shooter with a semi contested 3 at the buzzer is NOT a wide open shot. It is NOT ‘tHe rIgHt bAskBaLl pLay’, it is NOT Jordan kicking to Kerr or Paxson. In those cases the double CAME to him, he didn’t dribble into a double then kick to a ‘help’ 3.

It’s a common misnomer and as I said then, game of telephone. Just bc you kick to your teammate don’t mean he open. Just bc you getting extra attention don’t mean you’re doubled.

And even if someone didn’t know hoops at all it’s clear just from the still shot there are levels to what an ‘open’ shot is:

Spoiler

That is what we call butter ball naked wide open. That is the pass these nggas THINK they are making but it is not close. Thy not even gettin doubled and passing it up. Bron effect

 

[Braman]

….

 

[mag357]

Spoiler

Last year:

1- Celts up 2, only a 3 beats you. Jaylen brown inexplicably leaves James harden to double Embiid. Embiid kicks to harden for the 3

2- Jayson Tatum passes up the final shot for a contested shot by a role player. After the buzzer. Celts lose

This year:

1- Wolves up 2, only a 3 beats you. Jaden McDaniels dies on the screen. Doncic with the most predictable step back 3 and it’s good

2- Ant passes up the final shot for a contested shot by a role player. No good. Wolves lose.

Modern hoops drives me insane. The fundamentals are shot. Even a first team all defense guy like McDaniels has no bball IQ to know he can afford to fight over that screen. At worst ok you give up a floater by Doncic or a lob . But the game is only tied

And then stars giving up shots. I think it’s a conscious or subconscious side effect of Lebron. He used to STAY making “the right basketball play” that actuallly was not the right basketball play. Role players are supposed to get WIDE OPEN shots as the result of a double. If their shot ends up being contested, it wasn’t the right play. We’d rather YOU take the shot if it’s gonna be contested

Also shot out to Kevin love for showing how to guard the 3 as a big. You give up the drive we can live with a 2, just cover the 3. You know the stepback is coming so don’t overcommit. Gobert goofy ass going for every hesi

Spoiler

I agree on everything.
But the gobert thing.
Dude literally got a good contest on the shot.
You can't be too close cause they may call foul and he wasn't wide open.

Luka made a step back 3 over the hand of a 7 footer and people act like he made gobert fall down and had a wide open shot.

It should have been a hard trap late in the clock to get that ball out of his hands. Because he would have hit that shot over anybody.

 

[In The Zone '98]

Wolves traded a contested 2 or 3 for an open 3

With three seconds left, that was an acceptable play call

 

[Braman]

I agree on everything.
But the gobert thing.
Dude literally got a good contest on the shot.
You can't be too close cause they may call foul and he wasn't wide open.

Luka made a step back 3 over the hand of a 7 footer and people act like he made gobert fall down and have a wide open shot.

It should have been a hard trap late in the clock to get that ball out of his hands. Because he would have hit that shot over anybody.

I’m always hesitant to criticize bigs in that situation but I just have to. When you rewatch, Luka crosses over and is under the 3 point line headed downhill. In normal situations, yea you haul ass to recover you don’t want to give up a layup. And that’s how he gets EVERYbody with that step back

But here? Up 2. You know what Luka’s about. You know which shot kills you. So Rudy Gobert should know he’s Rudy gobert. He knows he can’t keep up with Luka so don’t even try, give him the drive.

That’s why I added the Love video. Kevin love is damn near as immobile as Gobert. Love didn’t do anything special physically, he was just smart enough to know that no matter what Steph does, he’s coming back to the 3 point line. So don’t bite on the drive. It’s simple af.

Now in Gobert’s defense I first blame McDaniels for dying on the screen. Then Kidd for not coaching them (him) on this better.

 

[Marc Spector]

Surprise, someone mentioned Kerr (and paxson) in the 76ers-Celtics thread last year and I shut that down



It’s a common misnomer and as I said then, game of telephone. Just bc you kick your teammate don’t mean he open. Just bc you getting extra attention don’t mean you’re doubled.

And even if someone didn’t know hoops at all it’s clear just from the still shot there are levels to what an ‘open’ shot is:

Spoiler

That is what we call butter ball naked wide open. That is the pass these Nggas THINK they are making but it is not close. Thy not even gettin doubled and passing it up. Bron effect

The double came to Ant

when Naz sets the screen, DJJ (I believe) is already running to Ant for the trap, when Ant sees the double he kicks to Reid, who catches the ball smooth, DJJ make a good heads up play, stops the pursuit of Edwards and double backs to Reid.
To his credit he makes up a lot of ground, but Reid still gets as good a look as he had been getting all game. The shot all but fell through.

 

[Braman]

The double came to Ant

when Naz sets the screen, DJJ (I believe) is already running to Ant for the trap, when Ant sees the double he kicks to Reid, who catches the ball smooth, DJJ make a good heads up play, stops the pursuit of Edwards and double backs to Reid.
To his credit he makes up a lot of ground, but Reid still gets as good a look as he had been getting all game. The shot all but fell through.

That wasn’t a double. That was a show

DJJ is only able to ‘double back’ to Reid bc —-he wasn’t doubling in the first place. And, no, he DOESNT make up a lot of ground. He only needed to take 1- 2 steps toward Ant and by the time the ball got to Reid he had already made thise 2 steps up.

The pass was too early. These are BASICS. What do they tell you on a 2 on 1 break. You don’t commit until the defender commits. If he never commits, you never pass. If you pass and he’s able to get back, that means HE WON! He fooled you into giving it up too early. Same logic applies here

The correct play would be for Ant to force DJJ’s hand. Make DJJ make a THIRD step to him and commit—- rake for the ball/turn his back to Reid,etc—-which he probably would have bc PJ was off balance. If Ant gets closer to the elbow and DJJ fully commits to double, THEN he would have gave Reid a wide open shot. If DJJ stays home, Ant rises up and takes the shot. Given the time, I’d prefer he just take the shot

That’s the difference between a good vs great shot. A good vs great play. The devil is in the details

 

[mag357]

I’m always hesitant to criticize bigs in that situation but I just have to. When you rewatch, Luka crosses over and is under the 3 point line headed downhill. In normal situations, yea you haul ass to recover you don’t want to give up a layup. And that’s how he gets EVERYbody with that step back

But here? Up 2. You know what Luka’s about. You know which shot kills you. So Rudy Gobert should know he’s Rudy gobert. He knows he can’t keep up with Luka so don’t even try, give him the drive.

That’s why I added the Love video. Kevin love is damn near as immobile as Gobert. Love didn’t do anything special physically, he was just smart enough to know that no matter what Steph does, he’s coming back to the 3 point line. So don’t bite on the drive. It’s simple af.

Now in Gobert’s defense I first blame McDaniels for dying on the screen. Then Kidd for not coaching them (him) on this better.

Yeaaaaa ... I guess.

Kevin love isn't as immobile as gobert.. that nikka gobert is a real big long center. Love can switch and be decent pretty much down to the small forwards

Luka gets that same shot on good defenders his own size, I said that night I seen him shoot that shot on McDaniels like 5x and I seen him get that shot on dorte.
Even if you try to take it away, if he wants to take it. He will.
No one is stopping that.

If Luka wanted that shot, hes was getting that shot. There's nothing u can do about it.

Also, if they called love for a foul on that play people would be screaming how it's bad defense.
He could have actually been called for a few fouls with his hands and landing space on that play

 

[Arris]

don't put gobert in that position I agree, but it's clear some players mind clear and just focus on not getting beat in certain situations. Gobert's length should have helped him immensely on contesting the shot, but he got beat once and was scrambling to recover from there. Gotta know the time left and the situation. Once luka backed up after that initiial move I knew the three attempt was coming at that point gobert should have known too and crowded him and not bite on any dribble moves aimed towards the paint

instead he kept biting and got bambi legs on the second dribble move

 

[mag357]

The double came to Ant

when Naz sets the screen, DJJ (I believe) is already running to Ant for the trap, when Ant sees the double he kicks to Reid, who catches the ball smooth, DJJ make a good heads up play, stops the pursuit of Edwards and double backs to Reid.
To his credit he makes up a lot of ground, but Reid still gets as good a look as he had been getting all game. The shot all but fell through.

Ant has to go through that double.
I know it sounds crazy.
But djj is about to help from off naz.
If Ant goes hard enough all djj can do is maybe swipe at him... He'd be able to get into the lane.

Like bro said... He was trying to make the right basketball play.
But on those last two possessions, the right basketball play is to be selfish and force.

I believe ant would have broke through the double attempt, and had a floater or jumper in the lane.

He's done it before when he goes fast and doesn't wait

 

[mag357]

That wasn’t a double. That was a show

DJJ is only able to ‘double back’ to Reid bc —-he wasn’t doubling in the first place. And, no, he DOESNT make up a lot of ground. He only needed to take 1- 2 steps toward Ant and by the time the ball got to Reid he had already made thise 2 steps up.

The pass was too early. These are BASICS. What do they tell you on a 2 on 1 break. You don’t commit until the defender commits. If he never commits, you never pass. If you pass and he’s able to get back, that means HE WON! He fooled you into giving it up too early. Same logic applies here

The correct play would be for Ant to force DJJ’s hand. Make DJJ make a THIRD step to him and commit—- rake for the ball/turn his back to Reid,etc—-which he probably would have bc PJ was off balance. If Ant gets closer to the elbow and DJJ fully commits to double, THEN he would have gave Reid a wide open shot. If DJJ stays home, Ant rises up and takes the shot. Given the time, I’d prefer he just take the shot

That’s the difference between a good vs great shot. A good vs great play. The devil is in the details

Damn... I ain't even read this....

Exactly