[LSA] How We Make Black Girls Grow Up Too Fast

[EARFQUAKE]

Warning, extremely long read, but very good and interesting for discussion.

PhenomenalWomanThat's Me

It was over a plate of ribs at my aunt’s dining room table when I learned that being a woman is about what men are allowed to do to you. I was 15 years old. Mike Tyson was the most famous boxer in the world.

For the black people I knew, he was the pinnacle of the black sports elite. He had been born poor and worked his way to riches and fame. But it was 1992 and he had just been found guilty of raping an 18-year-old named Desiree Washington in a hotel.

“Y’all act like she’s a woman,” my cousin said. “She is — excuse me, Auntie — a ho.”

That’s what I remember most, next to the ribs. My cousin was defending a convicted rapist to a room full of black women, all but one related to him. The elder women shook their heads. The elder men left the room, knowing a fool’s errand when they saw one unfolding.

My cousin was feeling himself. Young and approaching fatherhood, he stood his ground. Desiree Washington was a ho, bringing down a black man who had made it.

“What was she doing in the hotel room?” he asked.

“She could have been butt naked in that room and it shouldn’t matter,” I replied.

He explained how I was different from Ms. Washington mainly by telling me that she was a ho, and implying that I was not a ho by what he left unsaid. There are hoes and then there are women. As a teenager I could go either way. But as a relative I could go only one way: I would not be a ho.

I was not angry, but I was hurt. “What if your girlfriend is pregnant right now with your daughter?” I asked. “A girl?”

“No daughter of mine would be raised to go to a hotel room. I ain’t raising no ho.”

It was then that I learned black girls like me can never truly be victims of sexual predators. And also that the men in my life were also men in the world. Men can be your cousin, men can be Mike Tyson, and men can be both of them at the same time.

That resonated with me recently as new accusations against the R&B singer R. Kelly emerged. For decades, he has faced allegations of child molesting, sexual violence and abuse (in 2008 in Chicago, for instance, he was found not guilty of child pornography charges). This month, the families of two young women have accused Mr. Kelly of holding their daughters against their will, which one of the women has denied.

Whether or not the accusations are true, Mr. Kelly’s history with women is still soul-crushing: He surreptitiously married the singer Aaliyah when she was 15. He admitted to having had sexual relations with young women whose age he cannot or will not verify. And he has portrayed himself as a Svengali too likable to be a sexual predator. As we once did around our big family table, millions of his fans colluded in that portrayal.

I was older when R. Kelly became the sexual predator du jour. Still, I heard the stories. I lived in Chicago for a year in the early 2000s, and the rumors were everywhere. I heard about the McDonald’s near a middle school where he supposedly liked to ***** for young women who could go either way.

I remember the stories about Aaliyah. That was before the internet when we had to work much harder to spread salacious innuendo. And I fought with friends, men who I adored and respected, when videotapes of R. Kelly having sex with whatappeared to be an underage girl were being peddled on street corners.

At a house party, the men laughed when I announced I didn’t want us to watch the video, but they finally acquiesced when I displayed the telltale signs of female rage. It was as if a “crazy woman” was a fair reason not to watch child pornography, but my request was not. I still remember the one guy whose comment about the girl on the cover of the videotape cut through the nervous laughter.

“Look at that body. She almost ready,” he said.

Almost ready.

That’s the kind of comment I have heard hundreds, if not thousands, of times, from men and women, to excuse violence against black women and girls. If one is “ready” for what a man wants from her, then by merely existing she has consented to his treatment of her. Puberty becomes permission.

All women in our culture are subject to this kind of symbolic violence, when people judge their bodies to decide if they deserve abuse. But for black women and girls that treatment is refracted through history and today’s context.

New research corroborates what black women have long known: People across gender and race see black girls as more adultlike than their white peers. In her book “Pushout,” Monique W. Morris shows that teachers and administrators don’t give black girls the care and protection they need. Left to navigate school by themselves because they are “grown,” these girls are easily manipulated by men.

This cycle of neglect and abuse is mostly ignored in social and education policy because the violence is often sexual and it happens to girls whom society views as disposable. We rarely focus on how programs are failing black women and girls, or how we could intervene to help.

When President Barack Obama created a task force for young black men in 2014, it took months of demands by black women for a similar task force to be created for young black women. Even then, the girls’ task force did not receive equal attention or funding.

Watching men I love turn a girl into a woman and a woman into a ho has never left me. That conversation at my aunt’s dinner table was not the first time I felt deeply afraid, but it left a cut that will never heal. It’s the kind of wound that keeps you alert to every potential doorway through which you might enter as a friend, sister or woman, but leave as a bytch or a ho.

People of color are similarly hypervigilant when we navigate a white social world. We screen our jokes, our laughter, our emotions and our baggage. We constantly manage complex social interactions so we aren’t fired, isolated, misunderstood, miscast or murdered. We can come home, if you’re lucky enough to have a home, and turn off that setting.

But for black girls, home is both refuge and where your most intimate betrayals happen. You cannot turn off that setting. It is the dining room at your family’s house, served with a side of your uncle’s famous ribs. Home is where they love you until you’re a ho.

There are a lot about this piece that I agree with, and a lot I don't agree with.

While it's true that men like R. Kelly are sexual predators, young women who consent have to be responsible as well.

For example, I don't consider Aaliyah a victim when she married R. Kelly. I'm definitely not calling her a ho, dating a older man doesn't make you a ho, but this particular case only defines it as a social issue meaning it is only deemed as bad because society says it's bad.

When I was seven my peers were already watching porn and dry humping.

When I was 12 my peers were fukking and by 15 we had our resident hoes we laughed at because they were getting pumped and dumped consistently. I grew up in many different places and it's usually the same. Gay, straight, bicurious, boys and girls rack up body counts, date older people and/or get in a relationship because it was the cool thing to do and made you look grown.

So yes, while I agree that young girls, 15> are typically conditioned to grow up fast, it isn't all due to the behavior of black men (as the majority of the except alludes to). It's media, poor parenting, peer pressure and truthfully genetics since a lot of black girls look fully developed at a very young age.

And while this also may be a universal issue, I wouldn't know to what degree because I'm black with black experiences. I can resonate with this well, not personally (I was playing with Bratz dollz and no one was checking for my skinny ass) but I have sooooo much family like this. I am currently witnessing this with a 15 year old cousin who has a full coke bottle shape and her mother lets her have boyfriends and goes on birth control pills with her friends.

The loss of innocence starts extremely young with us.

 

[Rhapscallion Démone]

It all stems from black people being stereotypically viewed as hypersexual.

 

[Taadow]

Is it "we" that make Black girls grow up fast,
or is it Society that makes everybody grow up fast?

 

[EARFQUAKE]

Is it "we" that make Black girls grow up fast,
or is it Society that makes everybody grow up fast?

We as in black men and/or women?

Society as in universally that includes black men and women or just non blacks?

 

[marcuz]

 

[Yo Mama]

This is a difficult one

As a teen there were girls who were "fast".

I don't know the thought process that made them say yes to older men or to teen boys their own age. Could have been hormones or whatever. It was probably seeking fin and money to have said fun, where older men were involved.

I dont think its a "black" adult or black teen girl problem. All races have this issue.

But if you are black chances are high you are mostly around black people and you only associate this behaviour as being a black thing.

People ain't shyt op. You would think an adult male would turn down or not pursue underage females no matter how physically developed they look.

 

[Fun Sized Psycho]

“Look at that body. She almost ready,” he said.

That is disgusting.


As a woman that has dated/talked to older men when I was a lot younger, I can say these older men do prey on younger women. They love that naïveté that isn't seen in older women.

(But I hold sex to higher standards than some, so I wasn't having sex with them.)

 

[EARFQUAKE]

This is a difficult one

As a teen there were girls who were "fast".

I don't know the thought process that made them say yes to older men or to teen boys their own age. Could have been hormones or whatever. It was probably seeking fin and money to have said fun, where older men were involved.

I dont think its a "black" adult or black teen girl problem. All races have this issue.

But if you are black chances are high you are mostly around black people and you only associate this behaviour as being a black thing.

People ain't shyt op. You would think an adult male would turn down or not pursue underage females no matter how physically developed they look.

I went to an international school overseas and I know those kids were experiencing their own culture's version of hypersexuality. Same concept but I felt there was no need to really focus on non blacks.

Real talk, there was this thick mixed girl that was beat in the face but had a big ass and was top heavy. This was middle school but the boys and highschool boys were all over her. She was getting it in.

 

[Critical Distance]

This is an issue of proximity, obviously in the case of black men and white supremacy in the case of other races perception of black women. The "hoe" vs. "woman" distinction is more patriarchal than drawn across racial lines.

 

[M'gann]

The loss of innocence starts extremely young with us.

I agree with this.

The fundamental elements of [black] childhood are not afforded the same presumptions of innocence as their counterparts.

But i'm going too far off on a tangent so i'll leave it at that.

 

[Raava]

Black children are sexualized early. I do think that is a society as a whole thing, but there are huge issues in our community. Acknowledging that isn’t to say other communities don’t have the same or similar issues. Its just we have ours and we need to talk about them without being defensive and bringing up other people who have nothing to do with the us and don't care.

Sexual assault/child predators are a big problem and a cause for a lot of “fast” girls and mannish boys. How many times even in TLR have we seen guys talk about older women having sex with them when they were as young as 7? They won't even call it rape, it's just being a boy, something that happened, right of passage. I have heard countless stories of girls being molested by family members, being coming "fast", girls being kicked out by their moms. As she said in the article victims being label a hoe. Most people never get the help they need and it manifest it self in different ways. A friend of my mom is a foster parent. One of the girls has been sexually abused for years before moving with my moms friend. Soon after she was caught giving oral sex to boys in the neighborhood. I'm sure to everyone including the boys she is a slut/ho. But knowing her back story this girl who is a young teen is damaged. Is in counseling now but only what the state can afford.

Girls who develop fast are targets and a lot of guys don’t care how old you are as long as you have a body. Is it the girls fault for developing fast? Is is it the fault of boys just being boys? How about almost every song on the radio mentioning sex? How about tons of kids watching rated R movies. In elementary school, everybody was talking about Friday the movie...in elementary. If you say, "well a parent needs to control blah blah blah" you can't control how others parent. I had never even heard of Friday my parents would have never let me watch is but I heard everything at school. Then wonder people wonder why things happen between hormonal kids.

I absolutely don't blame teen victims. That's another form of victim blaming to me. Mentally, a 15 year old is not that same as almost 30. There is manipulation involved. So what if she was in love? Who is supposed to know best? Who is supposed to know better? They is preying on an easily manipulated mind.

Don't even get me started on how in a lot of lower income communities childhood innocence being almost non existent.

 

[#1 pick]

Warning, extremely long read, but very good and interesting for discussion.





There are a lot about this piece that I agree with, and a lot I don't agree with.

While it's true that men like R. Kelly are sexual predators, young women who consent have to be responsible as well.

For example, I don't consider Aaliyah a victim when she married R. Kelly. I'm definitely not calling her a ho, dating a older man doesn't make you a ho, but this particular case only defines it as a social issue meaning it is only deemed as bad because society says it's bad.

When I was seven my peers were already watching porn and dry humping.

When I was 12 my peers were fukking and by 15 we had our resident hoes we laughed at because they were getting pumped and dumped consistently. I grew up in many different places and it's usually the same. Gay, straight, bicurious, boys and girls rack up body counts, date older people and/or get in a relationship because it was the cool thing to do and made you look grown.

So yes, while I agree that young girls, 15> are typically conditioned to grow up fast, it isn't all due to the behavior of black men (as the majority of the except alludes to). It's media, poor parenting, peer pressure and truthfully genetics since a lot of black girls look fully developed at a very young age.

And while this also may be a universal issue, I wouldn't know to what degree because I'm black with black experiences. I can resonate with this well, not personally (I was playing with Bratz dollz and no one was checking for my skinny ass) but I have sooooo much family like this. I am currently witnessing this with a 15 year old cousin who has a full coke bottle shape and her mother lets her have boyfriends and goes on birth control pills with her friends.

The loss of innocence starts extremely young with us.

White supremacy, PTSD and after effects on slavery has done a number on the country

 

[Yo Mama]

I understand victims of sexual abuse acting out in a sexual way.

But what of friends who you were pretty certain hadn't been sexually abused but seemed to seek out these men and these situations.

The type of friends, as teens, who go out with boys or older men, and tell their parents they were at your house or with you. And you are looking at their family trying to keep your face neutral and not look surprised? They know you coz you have been friwnds with their kid since you were both in diapers?

Is every case a case of a sexual abuse cycle?

I understand the danger of victim blaming coz the genuine cases will be marred by the ones who were simply just hoes.

Its not cool to call a 15 year old a hoe.

What of that 15 year old who skipped school to attend r Kelly's trials?

Not sure of his age. But at the time of his trial he wasnt some cute young rnb singer. He was a grown man who looked like a grown man. Who was on tape pissing on another young girl. What would make a a child seek out such an individual!!!

This girl says she told him she was 19... Havent seen her pics from that time period but I'd wager he knew she was lying about her age.

There are predators who seek out and groom their victims. But what of victims who throw themselves at into the mix?

It seems its not politically correct to ask some of these questions. Its still mind bogling.

Its still a touchy subject. I have two girls of my own and Im older and all teens regardless of size or gender look like kids to me. I have never seen one who I found sexually attractive. The ones who look older to me look older coz they will be .

Black children are sexualized early. I do think that is a society as a whole thing, but there are huge issues in our community. Acknowledging that isn’t to say other communities don’t have the same or similar issues. Its just we have ours and we need to talk about them without being defensive and bringing up other people who have nothing to do with the us and don't care.

Sexual assault/child predators are a big problem and a cause for a lot of “fast” girls and mannish boys. How many times even in TLR have we seen guys talk about older women having sex with them when they were as young as 7? They won't even call it rape, it's just being a boy, something that happened, right of passage. I have heard countless stories of girls being molested by family members, being coming "fast", girls being kicked out by their moms. As she said in the article victims being label a hoe. Most people never get the help they need and it manifest it self in different ways. A friend of my mom is a foster parent. One of the girls has been sexually abused for years before moving with my moms friend. Soon after she was caught giving oral sex to boys in the neighborhood. I'm sure to everyone including the boys she is a slut/ho. But knowing her back story this girl who is a young teen is damaged. Is in counseling now but only what the state can afford.

Girls who develop fast are targets and a lot of guys don’t care how old you are as long as you have a body. Is it the girls fault for developing fast? Is is it the fault of boys just being boys? How about almost every song on the radio mentioning sex? How about tons of kids watching rated R movies. In elementary school, everybody was talking about Friday the movie...in elementary. If you say, "well a parent needs to control blah blah blah" you can't control how others parent. I had never even heard of Friday my parents would have never let me watch is but I heard everything at school. Then wonder people wonder why things happen between hormonal kids.

I absolutely don't blame teen victims. That's another form of victim blaming to me. Mentally, a 15 year old is not that same as almost 30. There is manipulation involved. So what if she was in love? Who is supposed to know best? Who is supposed to know better? They is preying on an easily manipulated mind.

Don't even get me started on how in a lot of lower income communities childhood innocence being almost non existent.

 

[Raava]

I understand victims of sexual abuse acting out in a sexual way.

But what of friends who you were pretty certain hadn't been sexually abused but seemed to seek out these men and these situations.

The type of friends, as teens, who go out with boys or older men, and tell their parents they were at your house or with you. And you are looking at their family trying to keep your face neutral and not look surprised? They know you coz you have been friwnds with their kid since you were both in diapers?

Is every case a case of a sexual abuse cycle?

I understand the danger of victim blaming coz the genuine cases will be marred by the ones who were simply just hoes.

Its not cool to call a 15 year old a hoe.

What of that 15 year old who skipped school to attend r Kelly's trials?

Not sure of his age. But at the time of his trial he wasnt some cute young rnb singer. He was a grown man who looked like a grown man. Who was on tape pissing on another young girl. What would make a a child seek out such an individual!!!

This girl says she told him she was 19... Havent seen her pics from that time period but I'd wager he knew she was lying about her age.

There are predators who seek out and groom their victims. But what of victims who throw themselves at into the mix?

It seems its not politically correct to ask some of these questions. Its still mind bogling.

Its still a touchy subject. I have two girls of my own and Im older and all teens regardless of size or gender look like kids to me. I have never seen one who I found sexually attractive. The ones who look older to me look older coz they will be .

Is every "fast" girl a victim of sexual abuse? No I don't think so. Have they been sexualized or/and exposed to sex early? Yes, I believe so. Being a approached by men by the time the time they show development and some before. Being left to there own devices more often, lack of guidance etc... Home situations, the importance of a man being pushed on them, conversations they shouldn't hear, wanting a father figure etc... What they see as being a woman and what it means to be grown.

I don't think people realize the level of dysfunction there is in a lot of communities. Things that seem simple or not a big deal have huge affects on children.

What do you mean throw themselves in the mix? A child making decisions vs. an adult is throwing themselves in the mix? I believe it goes beyond knowing right from wrong. You are dealing with a child's mind. Things that a teens thinks is ok, ask them at 20, their outlook has changed. Things you thought as a teen didn't matter or wasn't a big deal like a 4-5 year age difference. Thinking I'm 15 he is 21 what's the big deal. But it's a huge mental difference and more than likely someone is getting taken advantage of. That's not the same as 20 and 25 or 26.

But yea I do know there are fast girls like that. I didn't say they're weren't but most of the time people don't consider the factors I talked about. We don't want to talk about them. When someone says things like yea we know there are victims but- to me it's like do you really know how often this has happened? Maybe they do, it just sounds dismissive to me. I do know girls who were what was considered normal teen boy crazy to those who I thought they were fast. Thinking back on it comparing what their home life was vs. mine. The influences they had vs. mine. Most of them had some type of dysfunction. I'm not saying there is no blame or personal responsibility. Just there are reasons for everything and some of them affect people differently. Their are factors we don't consider and quick to dismiss a woman as a hoe, even teens.

 

[CoryMack]

Warning, extremely long read, but very good and interesting for discussion.





There are a lot about this piece that I agree with, and a lot I don't agree with.

While it's true that men like R. Kelly are sexual predators, young women who consent have to be responsible as well.

For example, I don't consider Aaliyah a victim when she married R. Kelly. I'm definitely not calling her a ho, dating a older man doesn't make you a ho, but this particular case only defines it as a social issue meaning it is only deemed as bad because society says it's bad.

When I was seven my peers were already watching porn and dry humping.

When I was 12 my peers were fukking and by 15 we had our resident hoes we laughed at because they were getting pumped and dumped consistently. I grew up in many different places and it's usually the same. Gay, straight, bicurious, boys and girls rack up body counts, date older people and/or get in a relationship because it was the cool thing to do and made you look grown.

So yes, while I agree that young girls, 15> are typically conditioned to grow up fast, it isn't all due to the behavior of black men (as the majority of the except alludes to). It's media, poor parenting, peer pressure and truthfully genetics since a lot of black girls look fully developed at a very young age.

And while this also may be a universal issue, I wouldn't know to what degree because I'm black with black experiences. I can resonate with this well, not personally (I was playing with Bratz dollz and no one was checking for my skinny ass) but I have sooooo much family like this. I am currently witnessing this with a 15 year old cousin who has a full coke bottle shape and her mother lets her have boyfriends and goes on birth control pills with her friends.

The loss of innocence starts extremely young with us.

It's also due to a lack of training/upbringing from the older women. A lot of women's problems come from a lack of true female leadership.