Let's be real, Kyrie is a loser

Professor Emeritus

Veteran
Poster of the Year
Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
50,984
Reputation
19,621
Daps
202,805
Reppin
the ether
The Cavs defense is STILL trash, Kyrie is not on the team. @IllmaticDelta was solely blaming Kyrie for why the defense was bad. Did you ever think perhaps your fellow LeBron stan was unfairly blaming him for why the Cavs defense was bad? I think so. But of course, you're not going to call him out on his shytty posting, because why? Because he's a LeBron stan.

:camby:

IDGAS who IllmaticDelta stans. I don't play games like that.

I'm talking about your quote of ME here.

You know that I attribute multiple reasons for why the Cavs defense was terrible last year, that Kyrie is by no means the only reason, and that I predicted they'd be even worse this year for much the same reasons.

Kyrie played poor defense in the regular season and 2/3 postseasons over the last three years. He stepped up in 2016, mainly in the 2016 Finals, but otherwise he was a huge drag on their defense. But he was only one factor.
 

Bledswole

Slappin and clowning chumps for fun.
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Messages
23,846
Reputation
-1,635
Daps
37,734
Reppin
Detroit
This is childish behavior, going into another thread and not even knowing the context of the discussion, just to dap/praise out of spite.

:hhh:

I'll be childish

But you going into EVERY thread that has to do with Kyrie :mjlol:

Professional dikk sucker:russ:
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
82,891
Reputation
8,635
Daps
223,643
IDGAS who IllmaticDelta stans. I don't play games like that.

I'm talking about your quote of ME here.

You know that I attribute multiple reasons for why the Cavs defense was terrible last year, that Kyrie is by no means the only reason, and that I predicted they'd be even worse this year for much the same reasons.

Kyrie played poor defense in the regular season and 2/3 postseasons over the last three years. He stepped up in 2016, mainly in the 2016 Finals, but otherwise he was a huge drag on their defense. But he was only one factor.
Well, let me remind you of the post that I quoted -

PG's were "killin'" the Cavs tonight? :usure:

Other than that, you're only emphasizing the fact that Derrick Rose is just as poor on the defensive end as Kyrie was. Which I will not dispute. :mjgrin:
Another PG 'killed" the Cavs tonight, and no you can't blame Derrick Rose again because he wasn't playing.

:russ:
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
82,891
Reputation
8,635
Daps
223,643
They move the ball more. Just not making the shots.. and making a bunch of turnovers off thoses passes.
2016/17 Cavs - 280 passes per game
2017/18 Cavs - 286 passes per game

It's still basically the same offense as last season. Virtually nothing has changed in that department. Clearly, Kyrie wasn't the reason why the ball wasn't moving last season - which is what @IllmaticDelta claimed. They're still one of the worst teams at moving the ball, and funnily enough, the Celtics are still one of the best teams at moving the ball (with Kyrie).
 

G-Zeus

G-Zeus Chrystler...the brehsident
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
18,411
Reputation
1,517
Daps
40,196
Reppin
Brehsident evil
2016/17 Cavs - 280 passes per game
2017/18 Cavs - 286 passes per game

It's still basically the same offense as last season. Virtually nothing has changed in that department. Clearly, Kyrie wasn't the reason why the ball wasn't moving last season - which is what @IllmaticDelta claimed. They're

It's still basically the same offense as last season. Virtually nothing has changed in that department. Clearly, Kyrie wasn't the reason why the ball wasn't moving last season - which is what @IllmaticDelta claimed. They're still one of the worst teams at moving the ball, and funnily enough, the Celtics are still one of the best teams at moving the ball (with Kyrie).
3 more turnovers.. so that 286 on 100 possession..same as last year..means 2.86 passes missing per turnover...would be more like 295 passes per game rounded out... they are looking to pass more..
 

Professor Emeritus

Veteran
Poster of the Year
Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
50,984
Reputation
19,621
Daps
202,805
Reppin
the ether
Well, let me remind you of the post that I quoted -


Another PG 'killed" the Cavs tonight, and no you can't blame Derrick Rose again because he wasn't playing.

:russ:

Derrick Rose wasn't playing in that game either, what dumb shyt are you trying to talk about?

I questioned your claim that point guards were "killing" the Cavs on a night when the starting PG who was "killing" then went 2-6 in the halfcourt (also had two layins on the fast break) and scored 12 points.

You claimed that they were getting into the lane "at will" when the starting PG was 1-2 in the key in the halfcourt and the backup PG was 1-4 in the key.

That game has literally nothing to do with this game.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
82,891
Reputation
8,635
Daps
223,643
Derrick Rose wasn't playing in that game either, what dumb shyt are you trying to talk about?

I questioned your claim that point guards were "killing" the Cavs on a night when the starting PG who was "killing" then went 2-6 in the halfcourt (also had two layins on the fast break) and scored 12 points.

You claimed that they were getting into the lane "at will" when the starting PG was 1-2 in the key in the halfcourt and the backup PG was 1-4 in the key.


That game has literally nothing to do with this game.
There you go again, looking at the box score instead of watching the game. When I say getting into the lane at will, I don't mean getting into the lane at will and scoring - I would've said so if I meant that. They were getting into the lane (and breaking down the defense) at will, and forcing the Cavs' players to leave their man and provide help defense, again, something you would've seen if you watched the game. PGs have been doing it against them in every single game.
 

Professor Emeritus

Veteran
Poster of the Year
Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
50,984
Reputation
19,621
Daps
202,805
Reppin
the ether
There you go again, looking at the box score instead of watching the game. When I say getting into the lane at will, I don't mean getting into the lane at will and scoring - I would've said so if I meant that. They were getting into the lane (and breaking down the defense) at will, and forcing the Cavs' players to leave their man and provide help defense, again, something you would've seen if you watched the game. PGs have been doing it against them in every single game.

Now you're being openly deceptive you insecure little a$$hole. In my original post I DID post facts from seeing what transpired in the game. I only gave the summary this second time because I didn't think you needed to be reminded over and over. Now that I see you're going to lie on me, here is exactly what you said:

Of course, they were. Felder and Grant were creating their own shots + getting into the lane at will. Who was playing PG tonight?

Everyone lets Felder into the lane because he's too damn shifty to stay in front of. But he can't hit shyt when he gets inside anyway, he was 1-4 in the key for the game. Grant was an incredible 1-2 in the key if you don't count the 2 buckets he scored on fast breaks.

Lebron is far too big to stay in front of guys 100 pounds lighter than him, but he makes up for it by lurking behind them so they can't do anything in there anyway. It's not like they were creating disruption inside and feeding the big men. It's not like they were regularly making the defense collapse to get the three-point shooters open. The shooters were hitting shots in the regular flow of the offense.

The Bulls played well last night because their outside shooters were on fire. They were hitting shyt from WAY back last night. And it's true that the Cavs in general have a crap defense (as they did last year) and continue to be poor at defending three-point shooters (as they have been going back several years). To turn that into a "the Chicago PG's were killin' the Cavs" is a gigantic stretch of a narrative.

You look at the actual scores, the majority of the threes were created from passing around the perimeter, NOT from point guard penetration. When there was penetration that led to scores, it was more often from one of the other players, not the PGs.




And saying "Felder and Grant were creating their own shots" and therefore they were "killing the Cavs" and "looked like all-stars" is ridiculous - Felder and Grant only made 7 field goals combined in the half court for the game, and only TWO of those were in the key. They hit 5 long jumpers between them to go 7-17 shooting in the halfcourt.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
82,891
Reputation
8,635
Daps
223,643
Now you're being openly deceptive you insecure little a$$hole..
Weren't you just crying about all the "insults" in the other thread, and now you resort to this nonsense?
You look at the actual scores, the majority of the threes were created from passing around the perimeter, NOT from point guard penetration. When there was penetration that led to scores, it was more often from one of the other players, not the PGs..
I never said anything about the point guard penetration leading directly to 3-pt makes/scores. There were defensive breakdowns on the perimeter for the Cavs all throughout that game (improper PnR defense, lack of effort and miscommunication), and it wasn't just the Bulls PGs who took advantage. The point I was alluding to was that Kyrie was NEVER solely responsible for why the Cavs had defensive issues, particularly on the perimeter.

Funny how you weren't saying this shyt last season, but would rather criticize Kyrie for his "bad" defense.
And saying "Felder and Grant were creating their own shots" and therefore they were "killing the Cavs" and "looked like all-stars" is ridiculous - Felder and Grant only made 7 field goals combined in the half court for the game, and only TWO of those were in the key. They hit 5 long jumpers between them to go 7-17 shooting in the halfcourt.
You mean just like it was ridiculous to say that Kyrie made Shane Larkin look like an "All-Star" last season? You mean just like it was ridiculous to blame Kyrie for all the Cavs defensive issues? I'm only using the logic which is used in this thread. Why weren't you saying anything when shyt like that was posted last season?

LeBron stans, y'all.

:hhh:
 
Last edited:

Professor Emeritus

Veteran
Poster of the Year
Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
50,984
Reputation
19,621
Daps
202,805
Reppin
the ether
Weren't you just crying about all the "insults" in the other thread, and now you resort to this nonsense?

No, what I was criticizing you for was that 90% of your posts were pure insults without content. Just like you did here - you bytched about me, but couldn't defend the point that I had made.

Sure, I insulted you here (you've insulted me 30+ times in the last two days and get something back, big surprise), but I backed it up with FACTS. I showed you that I had already addressed your claim with facts from the game about how the Bulls were scoring, not just box score numbers. That's what you repeatedly failed to do in the other thread - 90% of your insults had nothing backing them up at all.



I never said anything about the point guard penetration leading directly to 3-pt makes/scores. There were defensive breakdowns on the perimeter for the Cavs all throughout that game (improper PnR defense, lack of effort and miscommunication), and it wasn't just the Bulls PGs who took advantage.

"Perhaps the point guards didn't score on their drives, and perhaps the point guards didn't set up scores on their drives, but look at them killing the Cavs on their drives!"

I just posted the highlights showing most of the Bulls scores. You're at a loss to respond to the actual facts of the game because you can't. Facts are, the vast majority of the Bulls' scoring had nothing to do with great point guard play. Felder hit some shots on the perimeter, Grant scored in transition a few times, and that's about it. It was strong play by the Bulls' swingmen and ordinary-ass swing passes around the perimeter that set up most of the Bulls' scoring.



Funny how you weren't saying this shyt last season, but would rather criticize Kyrie for his "bad" defense.

You mean just like it was ridiculous to say that Kyrie made Shane Larkin look like an "All-Star" last season? You mean just like it was ridiculous to blame Kyrie for all the Cavs defensive issues? I'm only using the logic which is used in this thread. Why weren't you saying anything when shyt like that was posted last season?

LeBron stans, y'all.

:hhh:

I didn't blame Kyrie for all the Cavs' defensive issues last year. I consistently said that the problem was with how the Cavs were setup as a team. The issue was Kyrie AND Love AND Korver AND Deron AND Frye AND McRae AND Felder AND James Jones were all basically one-way players in for their offense during the regular season. Combine that with the lack of a backup big man (forcing Tristan to get too many minutes and become exhausted during the season) and the lack of a second player to competently run the offense and defense (forcing Lebron to take too big a load and coast on defense a lot) and you have a whole-team issue explaining their defensive woes. Not to mention the lack of any traditional big man or rim-stopper at all - something you could overcome in other ways, but which was glaring when combined with the issues already there.

And that's what I said consistently all season.

I never, at any point, said that Kyrie alone (or a Kyrie trade alone) would solve the Cavs defensive problems. I said that it was multiple guys that were at issue, and they needed two more serious two-way threats (most hopefully at PG and PF) if they were going to compete with the Warriors.

And when the Cavs traded Kyrie away, I immediately said that without more trades coming, they would make their problems worse in the short run. Getting Crowder as an asset would have been the first step to fixing things if they had been willing to trade IT and the Nets pick (and perhaps Frye, Shump, etc.) for the other two-way assets they need, but for whatever reason they haven't been willing to do that yet
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
82,891
Reputation
8,635
Daps
223,643
outside of handles, I see nothing great about him. He can't pass and his defense is terrible.:scust:
Can't pass?


Terrible defense?
Kyrie Irving's defense key for Boston Celtics in win over San Antonio Spurs, early-season success

You could see the exact moment Boston Celtics guard Kyrie Irving realized what San Antonio Spurs guard Patty Mills was going to do.

It was in the first half of the Celtics' win over the Spurs on Monday, and Mills was dribbling above the 3-point line. He brought the ball through his legs once -- left to right -- then tried to go into an in-and-out dribble.

Irving's eyes flicked downward instantaneously. The in-and-out dribble is a move Irving has perfected, so it made sense that he anticipated it, and in perfect sequence -- as Mills tried to bring the ball across his body and start his drive -- Irving planted himself and stuck out a hand. He deflected the dribble, Mills fumbled it, and Irving took off the other direction. A huge dribble pushed him out ahead of Mills, and he swung the ball around in transition to avoid the defender for the layup.

"He's playing both ends of the floor really well," Brad Stevens said. "When you're guarding all those high screens in the NBA, that's not easy. And he's doing a good job of knowing when to peel back and switch. He's doing a good job of chasing when he needs to chase, he stays in plays, he gets his hands on balls. He got a couple more balls tonight. I think we can continue to get better at finding him on offense and figuring what our spots are for him, but you can tell he's getting more comfortable every time he takes the floor."

The note about pick-and-roll defense is interesting. Irving has always been known as a defender who will die on screens, which hurts in a modern NBA where bigs often come well beyond the 3-point line to become an obstacle. Against the Spurs, the task was a little simpler -- San Antonio's starting guard is Dejounte Murray, whose effective field goal percentage is in the 14th percentile, per Cleaning The Glass. Against a poor shooter, Irving can simply slip under every screen and roam off the ball while recovering safely.

But Irving's rotations have been good, and as Stevens noted, the star guard has lightning quick hands -- a quality that may have been underrated when his defense was analyzed in Cleveland. But the biggest question about Irving's defense has always been less about whether he can and more about whether he will.

So far, he has. Irving credited Stevens for the improvements.

"(Stevens) does a great job of putting out a great game plan for us, and it's our job to perform at a very high level," Irving said. "He'll stay on us about it, and for me being at the top of the key handling most of those pick-and-rolls, and having guys come in and filter in and having to switch in groups, we just want to be able to utilize that on given possessions and consistently do it."

Meanwhile, Boston as a team continues to defend well, limiting an admittedly short-handed Spurs squad to just 94 points. Irving said the team is proving their prowess, although doing it on a nightly basis is key.

"We're proving it," Irving said. "We just have to consistently do it. That separates the good from the great teams. It's early in the season, but we have to consistently do it every day."

The same applies to Irving, of course, but the early returns have been encouraging for the Celtics.

"I think he's getting more comfortable, he's getting settled in, and you know it takes time to be where we want to be," Al Horford said. "But this was a huge step for us tonight."

full
 

Professor Emeritus

Veteran
Poster of the Year
Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Messages
50,984
Reputation
19,621
Daps
202,805
Reppin
the ether
Can't pass?

Terrible defense?

full

Note that your article doesn't claim that Kyrie was ever incapable of playing defense, but that he previously wasn't putting forth effort.

The note about pick-and-roll defense is interesting. Irving has always been known as a defender who will die on screens, which hurts in a modern NBA where bigs often come well beyond the 3-point line to become an obstacle.
But the biggest question about Irving's defense has always been less about whether he can and more about whether he will.

So far, he has. Irving credited Stevens for the improvements.


Similarly goes for his passing. While I don't believe that Irving has elite vision, the question has been a lot more about whether he was willing to pass than whether he was able to pass.
 
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
82,891
Reputation
8,635
Daps
223,643
Note that your article doesn't claim that Kyrie was ever incapable of playing defense, but that he previously wasn't putting forth effort.
Note that in that sentence it says "known", not whether or not he wasn't putting forth effort, but that was his reputation. And the author is a beat writer for the Celtics, I hardly think he would've spent enough time analyzing Kyrie's defense in Cleveland. Which is why he's speaking about his notoriety on defense in basketball circles.
Similarly goes for his passing. While I don't believe that Irving has elite vision, the question has been a lot more about whether he was willing to pass than whether he was able to pass.
I already explained this to you in regards to the type of PG that LeBron needed next to him, as if he was a pass-first one the Cavs wouldn't have won in 2016 - Kyrie was the player the Cavs needed in order to win. Quite clearly he was never the problem in Cleveland in regards to not moving the ball, and being one-dimensional - the system was ("Bron ball").

Why are you even quoting me over this? You never spent the time dissecting the original, shytty posts of this thread from the LeBron stans using him as a scapegoat?

:jbhmm:
 
Top