Lenin the God on "freedom of criticism"

[thekingsmen]

The repercussions for inciting violence/hatred and engaging in discriminatory practices should be punitive measures.

You argue that the discriminatory business will fail, however that's not always the case. That's the problem with this free market place of ideas, it assumes that the BEST ideas will always come out on top which is fundamentally untrue and naive to anybody that has studied history.

This is why I believe there should be a more authoritarian stance regarding the defence of some civil liberties.

The Weimar era in pre-nazi Germany was the most progressive and liberal society of its day. It welcomed the free market place of ideas WHOLELY and even entrenched the ideas of proportional representation to ensure that all ideologies were represented within the reichstag. You know what happened to this bastion of free speech and liberalism? Well as a result of the Great Depression people were driven to vote for the Nazis within the "free market place of ideas".

The assumption that the truth will always win in a completely open society of free speech is wrong.

Sorry my g but we disagree here. The Powers that be wanted what they wanted and got it. That had nothing to do with free speech. They control the outcomes to all things. Plus Weimar Era may have been progressive and liberal but it was Germany was broke and suffering a meltdown.

 

[southpawstyle]

Sorry my g but we disagree here. The Powers that be wanted what they wanted and got it. That had nothing to do with free speech. They control the outcomes to all things. Plus Weimar Era may have been progressive and liberal but it was Germany was broke and suffering a meltdown.

What powers that be? Do you know why Germany was broke and suffering a meltdown? They had no chance after the Treaty

 

[thekingsmen]

What powers that be? Do you know why Germany was broke and suffering a meltdown? They had no chance after the Treaty

1. These aren't the Powers of the other Countries
2. Yes I read history.

 

[Maschine_Man]

You said you don't care about the truth winning. Slavery ending was the truth winning. If a slave master said they had a reasonable opinion on slavery that should be heard before it was abolished would you rather listen to that opinion or end slavery without letting him talk?

Bruh, do you think slavery ended overnight?

That had nothing to do with freedom of speech. You dudes stay conflating issues. Stay on topic bruh.

 

[southpawstyle]

Bruh, do you think slavery ended overnight?

That had nothing to do with freedom of speech. You dudes stay conflating issues. Stay on topic bruh.

You created the "truth winning vs. free speech" dichotomy. Nobody said slavery ended overnight. If you were there and could wave a wand to end slavery would you? Or would the slave master deserve to be heard out? It's a simple question.

 

[Shogun]

What powers that be? Do you know why Germany was broke and suffering a meltdown? They had no chance after the Treaty

There was some optimism following the Ruhr Crisis in 23, and Stresemman was pulling it off with the aid of he Dawes Plan....but the crash in 29 put an end to that.

 

[Maschine_Man]

You created the "truth winning vs. free speech" dichotomy. Nobody said slavery ended overnight. If you were there and could wave a wand to end slavery would you? Or would the slave master deserve to be heard out? It's a simple question.

I didn't say anything about truth, and again you dudes stay conflating issues.

Again, tell me what that scenario has to do with freedom of speech?

Freedom of speech doesn't mean anyone has to listen. It just means that no one is stopping you from saying what you are saying.

Do you understand that?

 

[southpawstyle]

I didn't say anything about truth, and again you dudes stay conflating issues.

Again, tell me what that scenario has to do with freedom of speech?

Freedom of speech doesn't mean anyone has to listen. It just means that no one is stopping you from saying what you are saying.

Do you understand that?

Yes. Do you understand that freedom of speech has been used in America historically by white people to maintain old ideals? Minorities argue against actual oppression while white people complain they are not allowed to say what they want? That the idea of free speech was compromised when America was first established and the right wasn't shared by everyone?

 

[Maschine_Man]

Yes. Do you understand that freedom of speech has been used in America historically by white people to maintain old ideals? Minorities argue against actual oppression while white people complain they are not allowed to say what they want? That the idea of free speech was compromised when America was first established and the right wasn't shared by everyone?

You got ADHD bruh? Stay on point. You clearly don't understand freedom of speech.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

The concept of freedom of speech is loaded bullshyt.
It gives "equal footing" to outrageous, libelous, completely false, bigoted, and otherwise mind-numbingly claims and rational, truthful claims, under the guise that "everyone should have a voice" and that evidence can convince.
This is simply not the case, the rights of my people should not have equal footing with the claims of fascists.

The reason for this is due to Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel.......

Hegelianism - Wikipedia

Under his philosophy, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' and ALL claims ARE equally real.​

 

[Maschine_Man]

The reason for this is due to Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel.......

Hegelianism - Wikipedia

Under his philosophy, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' and ALL claims ARE equally real.​

However, freedom of speech doesn't not mean that you are allowed to impose on someone elses' freedom. therefore there are protections in place to NOT allow slanderous, libelous, obscene or any defamation of another person.

the First Amendment also does not protect someone from liability for the consequences of their speech.

I REALLY wish people understood that before they get on their soapboxes fighting to throw their free speech away.

 

[EndDomination]

This place was never Christian.

There's no way you're going to try and erase Christian imperialism breh.
And no "True Scotsman" fallacies, either.

 

[EndDomination]

The reason for this is due to Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel.......

Hegelianism - Wikipedia

Under his philosophy, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' and ALL claims ARE equally real.​

I wrote quite a bit my sophomore year of high school warring with this idea.
I can honestly say I'm not a big fan.

 

[thekingsmen]

There's no way you're going to try and erase Christian imperialism breh.
And no "True Scotsman" fallacies, either.

Erase nah i just know history.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

I wrote quite a bit my sophomore year of high school warring with this idea.
I can honestly say I'm not a big fan.

Most of Western civilization has been influenced by this philosophy to the point it's become 'normative'.

You can see it's effects EVERYWHERE but most people aren't even aware of it's existence until they see it for themselves.​