Kyrie Irving Going The Kanye Route, Tweets About Book Of Hebrews, Will Donate $500k To Organization

Voice of Reason

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I'm not sure what relation you think that essay has to my statement. He's saying that racial genetic determinitism doesn't exist, which is true. There is no single marker to tell "that person is a Jew", just like there's no single marker to tell "That person is black" or any other particular race. Human populations fall along lines that don't perfectly match any of our social categories.

However, that doesn't mean that you can't figure out relations between peoples. Your own quote says, "Jews maintained detectable vertical genetic continuity along generations of socio-religious-cultural relationship. And reading into other work and studies, it's quite clear that "Jewish" populations across the world share some related Middle Eastern ancestry, though all of them are also mixed into their local population.









Not sure where you get that idea at all - the DNA of Ashkenazi Jews, the main ones who populated central Europe, is a mix of Middle Eastern and southern European (especially Italian) origins.


That last paragraph was to save face these people are European and the DNA supports it.
 

Voice of Reason

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@Rhakim



This is just as ridiculous as anything that Kyrie could ever post :laff:

Gene tests show that two fifths of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from four women​

Judy Siegel-Itzkovich

Additional article information

Four “founding mothers” who lived in Europe a thousand years ago were the ancestors of two fifths of all Ashkenazi (European origin) Jews. This is the conclusion of a team of researchers at the Technion&;Israel Institute of Technology, Haifa, after they compared DNA sequences from nearly 2000 Jews with those of 11 500 non–Jewish people in 67 different populations around the world.
The remaining 60% were found to have much more heterogeneous genetic origins.
The team, led by doctoral student, Doron Behar, and his supervisor, Professor Karl Skorecki of the Technion’s medical faculty and Rambam Medical Centre in Haifa, published their findings online ahead of print publication in the American Journal of Human Genetics on 11 January (www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/home.html). The article will appear in print in the March edition.
Professor Skorecki, a nephrologist who also conducts genetic research, is known for his 1997 discovery of DNA marker evidence showing that most modern day Jewish men of the paternally inherited priestly caste (the Kohanim) are descendants of a single common male ancestor.
The latest discovery, which will be followed by genetic studies of the Druze minority in Israel and other communities, has important implications beyond its inherent historical interest, said Professor Skorecki, as it adds to understanding of the mechanisms of genetic health and disease in different populations around the world.
Because of its relative isolation over many centuries the Ashkenazi population, which accounts for most of the world’s Jews today, is also known to have accumulated some 20 recessive hereditary disorders (such as Tay–Sachs disease) that are rarely found in other populations.
The team, which studied mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) passed on solely by mothers to their children, found evidence of shared maternal ancestry of Ashkenazi and non–Ashkenazi Jews, a finding showing a shared ancestral pool that is consistent with previous studies that were based on the Y chromosome. This evidence pointed to a similar pattern of shared paternal ancestry of Jewish populations around the world originating in the Middle East. They concluded that the four founding types of mtDNA—likely to be of Middle Eastern origin—underwent a major overall expansion in Europe over the last thousand years.
The “four founding mothers,” he added, “are from lineages that originate long before the launching of the Jewish people some 3400 years ago. They probably came from a large Middle Eastern gene pool.
“As consistent with the Bible, in which the founding Jews were Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and his sons, and the matriarchs were ‘imported’ from non–Jewish peoples and then converted, the haplotypes of contemporary Jewish men are much less varied.”
Geneticists such as David Goldstein, formerly of University College London and now of Duke University in the United States, have argued that the Ashkenazi communities of central and northern Europe were established by Jewish men who migrated from the Middle East, perhaps as traders, and married women from local populations who converted to Judaism.
In a comment to the press after reading the new Israeli study, Professor Goldstein said he had not changed his views, as “the mtDNA of a small, isolated population tends to change rapidly as some lineages fall extinct and others become more common, a process known as genetic drift.”
In his view, the Technion team confirmed that genetic drift had played a major role in shaping Ashkenazi mtDNA, but he maintained that the linkage with Middle Eastern populations was not statistically significant.
“Because of genetic drift, Ashkenazi mtDNAs have developed their own pattern, which makes it very hard to tell their source. This differs from the patrilineal case,” Professor Goldstein said, “where there is no question [that they are] of a Middle Eastern origin.”
The four haplotypes found in 40&; of Ashkenazi samples were absent from gentile Europeans but were present in Sephardi (Oriental) Jews, although much less frequently, Professor Skorecki said. He added that it was important to conduct genetic research on Jewish populations now, because the opportunity would soon disappear, with the intermarriage in Israel between Jews of Ashkenazi and Sephardi origin as well as assimilation and intermarriage of diaspora Jews with the Gentile majority outside Israel.
 

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Man my barber broke down how we (black Americans) are the Lost Tribe of Judea with numbers and dates; had the whole shop quiet.


I know you're trolling but that was A-1 work right there. :russ:



Most people who push Hebrew Israelite stuff don't realize that it was invented by two Masonic preachers at the end of the 19th century, and its invention had absolutely nothing to do with history or evidence of any kind, but simple claims of direct relevation from God mixed with false prophecies.

Basically, a couple guys took the parallels between Hebrew freedom from Egyptian slavery in the Bible and Black freedom from White slavery that had just occurred 20 years early, parallels that were COMMON in Black churches at the time, and tried to reinvent it from a simple preaching analogy into an actual reality.

Then all the other supposed "evidence" of Hebrews really being Black people came decades later by believers who were desperate to prove their preachers right even after all their other prophecies got proven wrong.

One of the founders of Hebrew Israelites even believed in a "Square Earth" which is amazing for Kyrie's sake. :deadrose:

The origins of the Black Hebrew Israelite movement are found in Frank Cherry and William Saunders Crowdy, who both claimed that they had revelations in which they believed that God told them that African Americans are descendants of the Hebrews in the Christian Bible; Cherry established the "Church of the Living God, the Pillar Ground of Truth for All Nations" in 1886, and Crowdy founded the "Church of God and Saints of Christ" in 1896. Cherry taught that the Talmud was authoritative, that Jesus would return in the year A.D. 2000, and in a "square earth surrounded by three layers of heaven". The playing of the piano and the collection of tithes during Black Hebrew Israelite worship was forbidden by Cherry, who also taught the eastward direction of prayer and "denigrated white Jews as interlopers". The Church of God and Saints of Christ, originating in Kansas, retained elements of a messianic connection to Jesus. Another early key figure was William Christian. The pioneers of the movement were Freemasons, and it was strongly influenced by Masonic traditions.

In the late 19th century, Cherry's and Crowdy's followers continued to propagate the claim that they were the biological descendants of the Israelites, and during the following decades, many more Black Hebrew congregations were established; after Frank Cherry's death in 1963, his son Prince Benjamin F. Cherry took over leadership of the Black Hebrew Israelite movement. After World War I, for example, Wentworth Arthur Matthew, an emigrant from Saint Kitts, founded another Black Hebrew congregation in Harlem, claiming descent from the ancient Israelites. He called it the "Commandment Keepers of the Living God". Similar groups selected elements of Judaism and adapted them within a structure similar to that of the Black church. Matthew incorporated his congregation in 1930 and moved it to Brooklyn, where he later founded the Israelite Rabbinical Seminary, where Black Hebrew rabbis have been educated and ordained.



If there was any truth to it at all, then it wouldn't have been randomly invented out of nowhere with zero evidence in 1886. There would be SOME evidence of it between B.C. 500 (or whenever Black people supposedly left Israel) and A.D. 1886. Why is it the Lemba people (Zimbabwe/South Africa), the Beta Israel (Ethiopia), the Cochin Jews (south India), the Bene Israel (north India), the Kaifeng Jews (China), the Bukharan Jews (Uzbekistan), the Persian Jews (Iran), the Georgian Jews (Georgia), the Mountain Jews (Russia), the Sephardi Jews (Spain/Portugal), and the Ashkenazi Jews (northern/central/eastern Europe) ALL have social and cultural traditions that connect them to Judiasm, as well as genetic connections, yet the supposed American Black Hebrews are the only Jews in the entire world that somehow forgot their entire history completely and have zero trace of it in the archeological or genetic record?
 

Hypris

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Kyrie's not getting extended with all the drama he brings. Within a year we have seen the Nets owner publicly speak against his 2 best players. This Nets team won't last.

I said it in the KD trade thread, they just delayed the inevitable bringing them back. KD will be traded for less value now that he's going to be a year older with less years on his deal. Kyrie's going to keep killing his value with his antics. It will be a completely different Nets team next season.
 
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I can easily highlight another religion and institution as the power behind Trans-Atlantic slavery :




41ROOx011gL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg



People right books and have alternative views on shyt. Happens. There's money out there to be made selling books.

This doesn't make me a scholar or give me the right to transmit my personal views to millions of my followers on social media, like Kyrie is doing.

Kyrie is nowhere near intelligent or nuanced enough to navigate through these topics but the sad thing is he thinks he is.
 

Budda

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People deal with trauma in a lot of different ways.

The Egyptians, hebrews, etc and whatever other flavor of the month/what white ppl determine as important is just a form of escapism

What white people determine as important? If white and Arab establishments were not intent on whitewashing Ancient Egyptians there would be no reason to push back and you wouldn’t get so many pseudo scholars about, on both sides.
 

Voice of Reason

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I know you're trolling but that was A-1 work right there. :russ:



Most people who push Hebrew Israelite stuff don't realize that it was invented by two Masonic preachers at the end of the 19th century, and its invention had absolutely nothing to do with history or evidence of any kind, but simple claims of direct relevation from God mixed with false prophecies.

Basically, a couple guys took the parallels between Hebrew freedom from Egyptian slavery in the Bible and Black freedom from White slavery that had just occurred 20 years early, parallels that were COMMON in Black churches at the time, and tried to reinvent it from a simple preaching analogy into an actual reality.

Then all the other supposed "evidence" of Hebrews really being Black people came decades later by believers who were desperate to prove their preachers right even after all their other prophecies got proven wrong.

One of the founders of Hebrew Israelites even believed in a "Square Earth" which is amazing for Kyrie's sake. :deadrose:





If there was any truth to it at all, then it wouldn't have been randomly invented out of nowhere with zero evidence in 1886. There would be SOME evidence of it between B.C. 500 (or whenever Black people supposedly left Israel) and A.D. 1886. Why is it the Lemba people (Zimbabwe/South Africa), the Beta Israel (Ethiopia), the Cochin Jews (south India), the Bene Israel (north India), the Kaifeng Jews (China), the Bukharan Jews (Uzbekistan), the Persian Jews (Iran), the Georgian Jews (Georgia), the Mountain Jews (Russia), the Sephardi Jews (Spain/Portugal), and the Ashkenazi Jews (northern/central/eastern Europe) ALL have social and cultural traditions that connect them to Judiasm, as well as genetic connections, yet the supposed American Black Hebrews are the only Jews in the entire world that somehow forgot their entire history completely and have zero trace of it in the archeological or genetic record?

no religion in the world has concrete evidence of any of this stuff happening
 
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That last paragraph was to save face these people are European and the DNA supports it.


Yes they have European DNA, I pointed that out from the very first post. They also have a lot of Middle Eastern DNA. That's been the conclusion of virtually every genetic study on them.

In August 2012, Dr. Harry Ostrer in his book Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People, summarized his and other work in genetics of the last 20 years, and concluded that all major Jewish groups share a common Middle Eastern origin.
Citing autosomal DNA studies, Nicholas Wade estimates that "Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews have roughly 30 percent European ancestry, with most of the rest from the Middle East."
Concerning North African Jews, autosomal genetic analysis in 2012 revealed that North African Jews are genetically close to European Jews. This finding "shows that North African Jews date to biblical-era Israel, and are not largely the descendants of natives who converted to Judaism," Y DNA studies examine various paternal lineages of modern Jewish populations. Such studies tend to imply a small number of founders in an old population whose members parted and followed different migration paths. In most Jewish populations, these male line ancestors appear to have been mainly Middle Eastern.
A study conducted in 2013 by Behar et al. found no evidence of a Khazar origin for Ashkenazi Jews and suggested that "Ashkenazi Jews share the greatest genetic ancestry with other Jewish populations, and among non-Jewish populations, with groups from Europe and the Middle East. No particular similarity of Ashkenazi Jews with populations from the Caucasus is evident, particularly with the populations that most closely represent the Khazar region. In this view, analysis of Ashkenazi Jews, together with a large sample from the region of the Khazar Khaganate, corroborates earlier results that Ashkenazi Jews derive their ancestry primarily from populations of the Middle East and Europe, that they possess considerable shared ancestry with other Jewish populations, and that there is no indication of a significant genetic contribution either from within or from north of the Caucasus region."
A 2020 study on remains from Bronze Age southern Levantine (Canaanite) populations found evidence of large scale migration from the Zagros or Caucasus into the southern Levant by the Bronze Age and increasing over time (resulting in a Canaanite population descended from both those migrants and earlier Neolithic Levantine peoples). The results were found to be consistent with several Jewish groups (including Mizrahi, Ashkenazi, and Sephardic Moroccan Jews) and non-Jewish Arabic-speaking Levantine populations (such as Lebanese, Druze, Palestinians, and Syrians) deriving about half or more of their ancestry from populations related to those from the Bronze Age Levant and Chalcolithic Zagros. The study modeled the aforementioned groups as having ancestry from both ancient populations.

There are a tiny group of contrarians out there, mostly Eran Elhaik (who you quoted earlier) and his sometimes collaborator Rajajit Das. But even they postulate an Iranian/Turkish origin for Ashkenazi Jews, not German like you claimed, and their methodologies have been roundly criticized by the bulk of researchers.

If you're going to claim to use genetics to form your opinions, you can't make up shyt that no genetic studies have ever shown.
 

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no religion in the world has concrete evidence of any of this stuff happening


You're all over the map. Every religion has evidence of their history going back a certain distance, in some much more extensive than others. The problem for Hebrew Israelites is that their history begins in 1886 and has literally nothing before then.

Other religions can trace their origins back WAY further than that and FAR closer to the actual claimed start, and have archaeological, historical, linguistic, social, and genetic evidence to back it up, so I have no idea what you're trying to say about no one having evidence for anything.
 

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Ancient Hebrews being black is far less of a fairytale than to think they look like modern European Jews and the same exact thing in regards to Ancient Egyptians, they may not be the direct lineage of black Americans and other Africans in the diaspora but to act as if the same peoples who lived amongst Black African Egyptians and couldn’t be told apart(Moses) aren’t what we would consider ‘Black’ in modern terms is illogical IMO.

I don't think anyone believes ancient Hebrews look the same as modern European Jews. Pretty much everyone except racists now acknowledges that ancient Hebrews were brown and that modern European Jews have European ancestry mixed into their DNA.

Coptic Egyptians trace their ancestry back to the 1st century. They look exactly how you would expect north Africans to look - they're not Saudis but they look more like Arabs than say Nigerians. Which makes sense because Egypt has way more in common geographically and historically with other Mediteranean cultures in north Africa and the Middle East than with sub-saharan African cultures which were on the opposite side of a huge desert and had far more barriers to trade and intermarriage. Since Coptic Egyptians can trace their geneologies, history, language, etc. all the way back to the 1st century and have





 
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ReturnOfJudah

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How can a group calling themselves Jews claim that Africans are not Jews? How is that possible? How can it be possible for Jews being the only ones grabbed and sent to the west?

That is one of their main premises regarding who makes up the black tribe of Israel. It’s senseless
There are a ton of Israelites that teach and read history books showing there are Israelites still in Africa right now. I posted that shyt like 5 years ago arguing with somebody on here. I posted links to different Africans giving their account on how their parents passed down the oral tradition how they can from the land of Israel and migrated into their present day land. But I’ll let you cook
 

Voice of Reason

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I can easily highlight another religion and institution as the power behind Trans-Atlantic slavery :




41ROOx011gL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg



People right books and have alternative views on shyt. Happens. There's money out there to be made selling books.

This doesn't make me a scholar or give me the right to transmit my personal views to millions of my followers on social media, like Kyrie is doing.

Kyrie is nowhere near intelligent or nuanced enough to navigate through these topics but the sad thing is he thinks he is.



If this is the case what’s wrong with acknowledging the Jooish role in slavery we
I don't think anyone believes ancient Hebrews look the same as modern European Jews. Pretty much everyone except racists now acknowledges that ancient Hebrews were brown and that modern European Jews have European ancestry mixed into their DNA.

My wife is Coptic Egyptian, a people who trace their ancestry back to the 1st century. They look exactly how you would expect north Africans to look - they're not Saudis but they look more like Arabs than say Nigerians. Which makes sense because Egypt has way more in common geographically and historically with other Mediteranean cultures in north Africa and the Middle East than with sub-saharan African cultures which were on the opposite side of a huge desert and had far more barriers to trade and intermarriage. Since Coptic Egyptians can trace their geneologies, history, language, etc. all the way back to the 1st century and have





why is it Racist to acknowledge the Jooish role in the slave trade?
 

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I don't think anyone believes ancient Hebrews look the same as modern European Jews. Pretty much everyone except racists now acknowledges that ancient Hebrews were brown and that modern European Jews have European ancestry mixed into their DNA.

My wife is Coptic Egyptian, a people who trace their ancestry back to the 1st century. They look exactly how you would expect north Africans to look - they're not Saudis but they look more like Arabs than say Nigerians. Which makes sense because Egypt has way more in common geographically and historically with other Mediteranean cultures in north Africa and the Middle East than with sub-saharan African cultures which were on the opposite side of a huge desert and had far more barriers to trade and intermarriage. Since Coptic Egyptians can trace their geneologies, history, language, etc. all the way back to the 1st century and have






I understand this but I would guess Ancient populations would look closer to Ethiopians Nubians and Somalis than Nigerians or those from the Mediterranean, these groups named are all Afro Asiatic populations, neither Greek Romans or Mediterranean peoples are.

When looking at Ancient Hebrews and Egyptians i would hazard a guess that they have more commonality with the current populations of Somalis for example than they do the current populations of Greece, in terms of look customs and language.
 
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