I haven't been following this but remember...these are average everyday people in these comments:
Karmelo Anthony released from jail
- Thread starter WeDemBoyz
- Start date
They didn't "ask" anyone to do anything. Let's try again, simple and plain. Try and forget about the race of the individuals for a moment, if you can.
At a regional track meet in TX, during a downpour which caused a break in competition, a young man was sitting under the tent of a competing high school when witnesses say he was approached by two young men, twin brothers, who, for reasons unkwown, demanded he leave the tent immediately. Witnesses say that when this was refused at least one of the twins (6'0", 220 lbs) threatened to remove the young man (5'10, 160 lbs) himself, to which the young man replied "touch me and see what happens."
What happened next is unclear, but what all seem to agree on is that at some point at least one of the twins initiated physical contact with the youth, and was fatally stabbed. The suspect in the stabbling threw the knife behind the bleachers and fled the scene. He was apprehended shortly after by members of the Frisco PD, who were working the event as security. He admitted to the stabbing, saying he was scared, that the twin(s) had physically assaulted him and he was defending himself.
What would you have to say then? Because that's it, bare bones, stripped of all the bullshyt and emotion. Video and witness statements will have to fill in what was actually said and done by both parties. But that's what happened.
Him having a knife doesn't automatically negate the rest of what happened and now he goes to jail for murder. That's not how the law works down here, and I gave you a prime example in my last post of someone I know personally here that it happened to.
Worst cast scenario, if his lawyer ain't just an all around chump, the charges get knocked down to something like manslaughter, and there'll be another charge tacked on for him having a knife on school grounds. He's 17, so even if he was tried as an adult, down here he gets 4-8, does 2.5, and is back home before he's 21. Him being under 18 now could mean a little time in a juvenile facility, and out before 20.
And that's if his lawyer is completely incompetent.
If he's got a good lawyer he could, and should, fukk around and get off on self defense, and just have to eat the charge for having a knife on school grounds. That'll be an expulsion from Frisco ISD most likely, on top of whatever felony that is that he can get expunged from his record in a year or so. And, if him and his family are open to it they can relocate to Cedar Hill or somewhere down in south dallas county. Or maybe relocate out the area altogether.
We dealt with white boys like that coming up, and coaches and other adults who would've turned a blind eye to that same kinda behavior if a couple of their beloved little white boys hadn't gotten all the spit knocked out their mouths a few times. And that was our older brothers and shyt paving the way for us, and we still had to put in work when we came through. As soon as more of what really happened came out I knew exactly what kinda white boys those twins were. I'd bet good money if the truth came out about those two from people who've grown up with em, we'd find they been pushing mufukkas around and punking dudes at school and fighting at parties and shyt like that all their lives.
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ajnapoleon
Veteran
Guess what if you follow tariq and a bothsiders or a black or brown trump supporter
these are YOUR people in the comments
You don't need all that in Texas. That said, I do wonder about the knife a school premise. That said, I don't know the law for that in Texas
Nigerianwonder
Superstar
You do need all that. The laws are clear and Google is free. Educate yourself on the self defense laws in texas. Karmelo was illegally on school grounds with a knife, was not under immediate threat of death or serious injury, Used disproportionate force for a touch, and provoked the touch by saying touch me and see what happens.
Texas Self-defense Laws – When Is Use Of Force Permissible?
In Texas, self-defense is defined by Texas Penal Code 9.31. This section states that “a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force.”
Proving self-defense can be difficult, however. People can only claim self-defense when they:
- only use the minimum amount of force necessary for self-defense,
- reasonably believe that force was necessary to stop someone else’s use of unlawful force,
- did not provoke the attack, and
- were not engaged in a crime.
- responded with force to a strictly verbal provocation,
- resisted an arrest by a police officer, even if it was unlawful, that did not use excessive force,
- consented to the victim’s use of force, or
- provoked the victim’s use of force and did not abandon the encounter.2
The amount of force used in self-defense has to be reasonable. It cannot be disproportionate to the unlawful force threatened.
When too much force is used, it can be a crime. The person claiming self-defense could be liable for assault or even murder.
SheWantTheD
Veteran
Just because he’s been bonded out doesn’t mean he won’t get charged.
Voice of Reason
Veteran
How do we know he wasn't in fear of his life? Isnt that a judgement call?
Vaselclean
Pro
Funny how now having a weapon on you is an issue in a country with more weapons than people.
"Context" does not matter.
"Context" does not matter.
Nigerianwonder
Superstar
No. He has to actually prove it with some type of evidence.
Normally people have serious injuries or the person attacking them has a deadly weapon. You can only use deadly force if deadly force is imminent and immediately being used against you. That's why they say the response has to be proportionate and reasonable.
The problem you guys have is mixing up the right to basic self defense with deadly self defense. Karmelo had a right to basic self defense which is pushing or even punching or beating up metcalf. The bar is much higher if you kill someone and try to claim self defense. You guys seem to think killing someone is the only form of self defense.
The issues of having a weapon on school grounds, provocation by saying push me see what happens, His own words in the police report saying he only put his hands on him etc only make it much harder for him to claim self defense.
Nigerianwonder
Superstar
Point to where the death threat is in that report.
Proving self-defense can be difficult, however. People can only claim self-defense when they:
- only use the minimum amount of force necessary for self-defense,
- reasonably believe that force was necessary to stop someone else’s use of unlawful force,
- did not provoke the attack, and
- were not engaged in a crime.
Karmelo didn’t provoke the attack. “Touch me and see what happens” is a warning to everyone with common sense. The provocation was the twins approaching Karmelo, threatening him when he didn’t obey their commands, and then attempting to follow through on that threat. And it was a provocation because the twins had no authority to do so. It would be a different story altogether if it had been a coach or another official telling Karmelo to leave.
Karmelo wasn’t engaged in a crime. Having a knife could be considered a criminal offense, but he wasn’t actively committing any crimes. If he was under the tent going through people’s bags and was then confronted by the Metcalfs and told to leave and refused, and an altercation then ensued which resulted in the stabbing death of Austin, it would be a different story.
What you’re doing is completely taking the white side of the story and trying to make it fit the definition of a murder, instead of analyzing the facts as we know them and seeing how the law applies.
This is why as important as it is for us to receive training in professions like medicine and law, it’s even more important that we first dehonkefy our minds.
Nigerianwonder
Superstar
How? We are not talking about just using force. We are talking about deadly force. What is the proof that deadly force was necessary? He will have to provide evidence of that.
Again. touching someone which is misdemeanor assault is not deadly force. Telling someone you are going to remove them is not a death threat.
The prosecution will claim that statement was provocation cause he knew he had a knife on him and planned to use it .
He was criminally trespassing by carrying that knife on school grounds.
What you are doing is being disingenuous. If Karmelo lacked emotional control and discernment to know when to use deadly force then I have no doubt he would have eventually stabbed and killed another black child and nobody would care cause they would just be another statistic. Homicide is the number one cause of death for black teens. And a major cause is due to lack of emotional control.
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What is the proof deadly force wasn't? Again, you're deciding for Karmelo how scared he was allowed to be. I'm roughly 6'2" about 240, and in a fight i could take most regular sized people and run their head into a wall, or even pick them up and drive them headfirst into the ground, both of which could be fatal, even though I may not have intended to kill anyone. If I hit someone hard enough they could fall and hit their head, which could also be fatal. Karmelo is 5'9" 160, which is basically regular sized. How much damage could two of me with bad intentions do to someone that size? The Metcalf twins are 6 ft 220, and even at my size I would still have trouble with two dudes that size if we got into it. Combined, they outweighed Karmelo by 280 pounds.
Who are you, or anyone else to tell that young man how scared he was allowed to be? Do you know how much bodily harm they could've done? Do you know how far the Metcalf twins would've gone before they stopped? No, you don't. And the only way to find out would've been to simply let them beat on Karmelo to see how far they would've gone.
I've dealt with the touching and the telling up above. The twins told then they touched, and nobody knows how far they intended to go.
If I'm sitting in a public place and have a gun on me and for no reason you come start fukking with me, and then attack me, and I shoot you to defend myself, that doesn't mean I was sitting there the whole time intending to shoot you. It just means I had a gun on me when you approached and then attacked. Karmelo had the knife in his bag. And Karmelo even gave the twins a warning once he was threatened - "touch me and see what happens" - which he's not required to do. he didn't have to say anything. he could've just ignored the twins when they demanded he leave, and then reacted when they got physical.
The prosecutor is going to say alot of things, that doesn't mean they're true.
Then that'll be a charge he has to deal with. In the example I gave above, if I'd been sitting in a park or some other place where firearms aren't allowed, that doesn't now mean that I'm open season for whoever feels like doing whatever to me, up to and including beating me to death for sitting there. It just means if a situation happens and the law gets involved, that might be a charge I have to deal with. And criminal trespassing is child's play for even a decent lawyer. Probation
Brother, this is what I mean by you have to dehonkyfy your mind. You don't get to project what that man "would have eventually" done. If so, who's to say the Metcalf twins wouldn't have eventually beat someone to death, simply because they felt like that person shouldn't be where they were?
And this is the problem so many have with certain of you immigrants. And I'm not trying to start any petty diaspora back and forths, but what I mean is this. Were you born here in this country? Or did you move here relatively young? If so, you would've at least had the basic history classes we all took coming up through middle and high school, which would mean you should have at least a rudimentary knowledge of our history here.
You'd know there was a period of time, not so long ago, where a poor white trash 9 year old child could order around an established grown Black man like the Black man was the child, and the Black man had better move when that kid said move. If they were both on the sidewalk then that Black man had better move around and make way. That's what has these white people so mad that they're lying, and basically what you're arguing for, whether you know it or not.
See, this isn't about karmelo sitting quietly under an opposing team's tent (like many others were doing) during a downpour and refusing to leave when asked. At heart, though unspoken, what this is really about is the fact that two white men told that black boy to git, and he didn't git. And then he actually had the audacity to try and defend himself - raised his hand against a white man! - when those two tried to put the ni _ _ er in his place! My friend, this isn't the 1800's. We don't have to bow and scrape and step tew whenever we hear 'get up out your chair boy! NOW!' and shuffle back out into the rain because Boss said so. And we certainly don't have to simply sit back and let two big white boys tire themselves out beating on us and throwing us about, while hoping they plan on stopping before they seriously hurt, or even kill us.
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