John Oliver the massive hypocrite?

ill

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Is John Oliver a hypocrite on taxes?

The John Oliver Property Tax Scam: HBO Comedian Secretly Buys Manhattan Mansion

Sprawling Condo Over Lincoln Center for $13.74 Million

For years, Oliver has criticized the estate tax, which defenders, in a smart linguistic move dreamed up by Frank Luntz, long ago labeled the “death tax”; and the tax code’s raft of loopholes that benefit special interests he identified as oil companies and hedge fund managers. Oliver even briefly established the bogus Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption to draw attention to tax-exempt status granted to churches and charities.

Back in July 2014, in an episode in which he lamented the Wealth Gap in America” (which has resulted in the richest one percent of Americans controlling 20 percent of annual income), Oliver said, “At this point the rich are just running up the score…What sets America apart is that we are actively introducing policies that disproportionately benefit the wealthy,” such as tax cuts and loopholes like trusts.

So it’s a little surprising to discover that just months before, Oliver had a tax attorney set up two revocable trusts, one for him and one for his wife, to hide the couple’s purchase of a $9.5 million Manhattan penthouse. Then he used a tax loophole created by Donald Trump himself back in the 1970s, when the current president was merely a prominent New York real estate developer and aspiring celebrity author.

The loophole in question is the banally named “421-a” tax dodge, which was recently attacked in a Daily News op-ed written by two New York state Democrats, one a senator and the other an assemblyman. They said that the original 421-a tax exemption was “designed to encourage new development in locations that were vacant or underutilized,” but that Trump wanted to use it in 1980 when he bought Bonwit Teller in midtown Manhattan. The plan was to tear it down and build Trump Tower, which would mix office space and luxury condos.

“Told by Mayor Ed Koch that the Bonwit site could not qualify for a 421-a tax break, Trump and his lawyer — the infamous Roy Cohn — sued the city,” the News op-ed recalls. “In the end, they won a tax exemption worth $50 million for the extravagant Trump Tower. More importantly, Trump’s lawsuit established that all new development, even luxury projects, would be automatically eligible for the 421-a exemption.”

The article said that the 421-a provision, which expired last year in a political impasse but that Albany is considering revising, will rob state coffers of $1.3 billion of revenue “this year alone in foregone property taxes.”

But just four months before Oliver’s July show, he had hired slick New York law firm Proskauer Rose LLP, which, in addition to union-busting and representing BP America, ChevronTexaco and ExxonMobil, specializes in helping the rich find tax breaks and buy real estate. Proskauer also has a long-time Private Client Servicesgroup, whose “lawyers handle complex tax and estate planning matters for wealthy multinational families,” as well as “executives, Internet entrepreneurs, art collectors and investors, professionals and real estate developers, among others,” according to its website.

Oliver’s lawyer at the firm was Jay Waxenberg, who “focuses his practice on estate and tax planning and estate and trust administration.” Waxenberg, the website goes on, “represents many families with significant multigenerational wealth, and has assisted them in the structuring of their estate plans so as to minimize gift, estate and generation-skipping taxes in the transmission of their wealth through several generations.”

In other words, Waxenberg is exactly the type of fancy pants attorney who helps his 1 percent clientele get the tax breaks and use the loopholes that Oliver gets such mileage deriding on TV.

In Oliver’s case, Waxenberg set up two revocable trusts — JO, named for John Oliver, and KNO, named for his wife Kate Norley Oliver — with Waxenberg as the trustee and his law firm serving as the trusts’ registered address. The trusts were then used to create a shell company called Hoagie’s Place LLC, named for Oliver’s beloved dog. Incidentally, Kate Norley Oliver’s New York voter registration shows she is a Democrat and lives in the penthouse in question.

In 2015, Oliver and his wife used Hoagie’s Place to purchase a 39th floor penthouse in an Upper West Side building overlooking the Hudson River for $9.5 million. Property records show they put half down and took out a $4.75 million mortgage from J.P. Morgan. Neither Oliver nor his wife’s name appears on the mortgage, or any of the other property records discussed in this story. Hoagie’s Place is identified as the buyer in the mortgage, but its listed address is an office building in Encino, California that houses dozens of shell corporations and revocable trusts.

Oliver benefits from New York’s property tax system, which offers huge advantagesto residents of rich enclaves like the one where he lives. For example, even though Oliver paid $9.5 million for his penthouse, the city assessed its market value for tax purposes at just $1.3 million. However, only $515,000 of that amount was billable for property taxes. At a rate of 12.8 percent, Oliver normally would have paid $66,390.

However, property tax records show that, thanks to Trump and Roy Cohn, Oliver gets the very generous 421-a tax break on the penthouse. Hence, his property’s billable value after the exemption plunged by over $300,000, and he owed just $27,343 for 2016. That comes out to a property tax rate of roughly 0.25 percent, which would make Ronald Reagan and Ayn Rand dance in their graves from happiness.

Excerpts taken from the Observer

I personally don't have any problem with the scheme his tax attorney is running and I would 100% do the same thing in his position but this goes to show that this guy can be full of shyt and a complete hypocrite. He's using tax loopholes that Trump literally pioneered :mjlol:
 

the cac mamba

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this is why trump vs bernie would have been such a better matchup @4d 6f 6e 65 79 :jaymad:

when trump said "whats the outrage about, hillary? politicians like you are the ones who write these laws in my favor"....she had NOTHING :wow: there was nothing to say back to him. because it was true :trumpj:

i dont begrudge oliver using this, i take every tax break i can. the problem is that its there for him to use.
 

88m3

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What am I supposed to care about? Jon Stewart did similar things with his properties. Conservatives are in their feelings as usual.


I'd say a handful of the people on the forum even know what the article says or anything about 421-a.
 
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ill

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What am I supposed to care about? Jon Stewart did similar things. Conservatives are in their feelings as usual.


I'd say a handful of the people on the forum even know what the article says or anything about 421-a.

Do you think he's a hypocrite for his anti-1% stance on TV?
 

88m3

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Do you think he's a hypocrite for his anti-1% stance on TV?

High key articles like this are the right trying to censor voices they don't like Colbert, Stewart, Oliver, and etc.

No, I don't think he's a hypocrite for his anti-1% stance on TV. Where should he live, Commissar?

:laff:
 

ill

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High key articles like this are the right trying to censor voices they don't like Colbert, Stewart, Oliver, and etc.

No, I don't think he's a hypocrite for his anti-1% stance on TV. Where should he live, Commissar?

:laff:

Did you read the article? He can live anywhere. He just doesn't have to exploit tax loopholes that Trump pioneered in order to devalue their property tax rates while going on TV every night talking nonsense about rich people and their tax loopholes that he himself is exploiting.

You can call it an attack by the right all you want but at the end of the day John is doing the exact shyt that he's crying about on TV. Its beyond hypocritical.
 

88m3

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Did you read the article? He can live anywhere. He just doesn't have to exploit tax loopholes that Trump pioneered in order to devalue their property tax rates while going on TV every night talking nonsense about rich people and their tax loopholes that he himself is exploiting.
Yes, I read the article. Read about 421-a abit and get back to me. 421-a has legitimate usages and a lot of buildings have them or other tax breaks.

NYC property taxes are pretty complicated but here's an example a 5 million dollar townhouse in Park Slope may have taxes 5k a year. A 5 million dollar condo in prime Brooklyn or Manhattan may be 30-50k+ a year in taxes.
I'll try and find an article on the subject later when I get free.


Even worse

Owning a home is a tax break and paying local taxes are a tax deduction
Having a mortgage is a tax deduction
 

ill

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Yes, I read the article. Read about 421-a abit and get back to me. 421-a has legitimate usages and a lot of buildings have them or other tax breaks.

NYC property taxes are pretty complicated but here's an example a 5 million dollar townhouse in Park Slope may have taxes 5k a year. A 5 million dollar condo in prime Brooklyn or Manhattan may be 30-50k+ a year in taxes.
I'll try and find an article on the subject later when I get free.


Even worse

Owning a home is a tax break and paying local taxes are a tax deduction
Having a mortgage is a tax deduction

I just skimmed over this tax-incentives-421a-main

It looks like buildings get the 421-a exemption if they provide 20-30% affordable housing within that building. So let me know if I'm understanding this correctly but basically we are subsidizing Oliver's property tax rate so that he in turn can subsidize affordable housing in his building?

The law was originally written to rejuvenate downtrodden areas/buildings but Trump sued to set precedent where he could apply the exemption to buildings that don't fit that criteria.

If you can find the article on the different tax rates based on city let me know. Im interested in checking that out.
 

GnauzBookOfRhymes

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I would understand your point if policies were in fact adjusted to make sure that these loopholes were closed, but Oliver still went out and utilized attorneys to continue to go around them. In many large cities (Chicago is another example), the RE development lobby is so powerful that there are all sorts of perverse incentives built into the law. Many developers in the Chi ignore the affordable housing requirements and choose instead to pay a fine (that is essentially pocket change when you consider how much the new units sell for).

But taking your criticism to its logical conclusion, that would be like saying someone who happens to own a gun is a hypocrite if he supports ANY gun control.

Or if I am in the top income tax bracket, but feel that taxes should be raised on the wealthy - does that mean that it's hypocritical of me to take deductions that lower my overall tax liability?

A lot of people believe that subsidizing ethanol production is a bad idea economically and environmentally - does that mean you're a hypocrite if you fill up your flex fuel vehicle with E85?
 

hashmander

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just because you're against a loophole in practice doesn't mean you're not going to take advantage of it if everyone else can. the point isn't to be holier than thou, it's saying you know "this is wrong and i shouldn't even be able to benefit from it." but as long as they leave it open you would be a fool to refuse to do it.

i'm fine with the current tax rates, but if it's lowered i'll be opposed to it, but still pay the lower rate. i'm not going to look for ways to pay more money when everyone else in my situation isn't paying more money.
 

ill

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just because you're against a loophole in practice doesn't mean you're not going to take advantage of it if everyone else can. the point isn't to be holier than thou, it's saying you know "this is wrong and i shouldn't even be able to benefit from it." but as long as they leave it open you would be a fool to refuse to do it.

i'm fine with the current tax rates, but if it's lowered i'll be opposed to it, but still pay the lower rate. i'm not going to look for ways to pay more money when everyone else in my situation isn't paying more money.

:ehh: I agree and like I said in OP, I would 100% do the same thing. I will add that during the election campaign, a lot of people took issue with Trump openly admitting to exploiting loopholes like this and lobbying politicians for more favorable tax breaks for the rich. Oliver has consistently called out that kind of behavior so I view it as a bit hypocritical on his part for not practicing what he preaches.
 
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