Jason Whitlock and Bob Costas jumped aboard the crazy train- Re: Belcher and Guns

[88m3]

I don't know why you just brushed this argument aside as if it isn't valid. It's absolutely true. For the better part of human existence on this planet, guns were not around. Yet murders and crimes of passion have been documented to occur, even in anthropological findings.

The gun makes it easier to kill people, it's not the reason people are killed (unless you are talking about faulty weapons).

Why are you even arguing this. You know you're wrong bro.

 

[Type Username Here]

Why are you even arguing this. You know you're wrong bro.

How so? Back your position up.

I feel the evidence and statistics are on my side.

I see a lot of emotions on this issue, but where are the numbers and data?

We go around this forum mocking people for making arguments and assumptions without data, but this topic is exempt?

 

[88m3]

How so? Back your position up.

I feel the evidence and statistics are on my side.

I see a lot of emotions on this issue, but where are the numbers and data?

We go around this forum mocking people for making arguments and assumptions without data, but this topic is exempt?

We've done this a dozen times you bring up DC, Chicago, etc knowing that the weapons are brought in from other states or counties where the restrictions are lax or non existant. This is fact its backed up by DOJ, FBI, etc.

If there are no small arms or they are restricted murder rates fall.

If someone doesn't readily have access to a handgun they can't shoot them.

Why do we have laws when purchasing handguns? Because studies have proven it decreases the chance of someone going out and murdering another person.


I'll have the discussion but it's pretty damn cut and dry from where I'm standing. Personally I enjoy firearms and own.

 

[Type Username Here]

Here is MORE data:

Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. Switzerland does not have a standing army, instead opting for a peoples' militia for its national defence. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations; Switzerland thus has one of the highest militia gun ownership rates in the world.[1] In recent times political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations.[2] A referendum in February 2011 rejected stricter gun control.[3]

Police statistics for the year 2006[12] records 34 killings or attempted killings involving firearms, compared to 69 cases involving bladed weapons and 16 cases of unarmed assault. Cases of assault resulting in bodily harm numbered 89 (firearms) and 526 (bladed weapons).

Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let me see if I can pull some more recent data.

 

[Type Username Here]

If there are no small arms or they are restricted murder rates fall.


Why do we have laws when purchasing handguns? Because studies have proven it decreases the chance of someone going out and murdering another person.

Cite your sources and studies. According to your logic and studies, people should be murdering one another left and right in Switzerland.

 

[Type Username Here]

Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept.
The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols.

This is in a very large part due to Switzerland's unique system of national defence, developed over the centuries.

Instead of a standing, full-time army, the country requires every man to undergo some form of military training for a few days or weeks a year throughout most of their lives.

Between the ages of 21 and 32 men serve as frontline troops. They are given an M-57 assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition which they are required to keep at home.

Once discharged, men serve in the Swiss equivalent of the US National Guard, but still have to train occasionally and are given bolt rifles. Women do not have to own firearms, but are encouraged to.

More data.
BBC News | EUROPE | Switzerland and the gun

 

[88m3]

Cite your sources and studies. According to your logic and studies, people should be murdering one another left and right in Switzerland.

I guess we'll just ignore the socio economic conditions, education, population, landmass, and weapons education.

 

[Type Username Here]

Are we too assume that people in Switzerland do not get enraged or commit crimes of passion? Are we too assume that even though there are plenty of guns/rifles in these households, blade crimes and attempted killings are higher?

What do we do with this information?

 

[Type Username Here]

I guess we'll just ignore the socio economic conditions, education, population, landmass, and weapons education.

Okay, so it ISN'T the guns?

Because that's my point.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

How so? Back your position up.

I feel the evidence and statistics are on my side.

I see a lot of emotions on this issue, but where are the numbers and data?

We go around this forum mocking people for making arguments and assumptions without data, but this topic is exempt?

Here is MORE data:





Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let me see if I can pull some more recent data.

Cite your sources and studies. According to your logic and studies, people should be murdering one another left and right in Switzerland.

That's neither here nor there though. Nobody's saying there's a 1:1 relationship between number or guns and murder rates. Obviously there's a ton of factors that go into murder rates, primarily of the socioeconomic variety. I'm saying that there are plenty of murders that do occur that would not have if guns weren't there. I'm not even trying to turn this into a gun control debate. I'm just calling it like it is.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Are we too assume that people in Switzerland do not get enraged or commit crimes of passion? Are we too assume that even though there are plenty of guns/rifles in these households, blade crimes and attempted killings are higher?

What do we do with this information?

Are you just being disingenuous? You're doing strawman arguments right now.

 

[Type Username Here]

Which is exactly my point Vic. There are a lot more that goes into gun crimes than possesing a gun.

So what part of Whitlock's statement was factually correct or based on some evidence?

 

[88m3]

Okay, so it ISN'T the guns?

Because that's my point.

the guns are the tool the condition is due the contributing factors


you can't have one without the other

 

[Type Username Here]

Are you just being disingenuous? You're doing strawman arguments right now.

How am I drawing strawman. If Whitlock's premise is correct, that guns are the motivating factor of these types of deaths, then Switzerland should reflect that. If not, then guns are not the primary problem.

 

[Type Username Here]

the guns are the tool the condition is due the contributing factors


you can't have one without the other

Except, in Switzerland, attempted killings and killings do occur, and the blade is used more than the gun. Why?