Essential Japanese Wrestling Discussion/News
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Jmare007
pico pal q lee
Daichi Hashimoto vs. Yuya Aoki
Another thing I love about the Strong division is that you get to see every wrestler play different roles depending on who they are matching up against, that's why we get different finishes all the time instead of the same "get my finisher in no matter what" thing that every damn promotion in the world seems to be enamored with. I love how guys like Aoki and Nomura don't give a flying fukk about Daichi being the champ, they know dude is only a couple of years older and they got straight at him
in Aoki's case though, he's gotta learn his place and we see Daichi being a convincing "senior", he fukking obliterates Aoki, who has to dig very deep - and gets the small, quiet crowd to rally behind him - to make a nice comeback. Another fun little match, finish is once again a clever one 
@Don Ibiza Ibrahimovic I know you praise Jun a lot for how he develops talent, but Daisuke has 4 wrestlers under 25 ready to compete anywhere at any time and deliver a performance that will catch people's attention, that shyt is impressive as fukk.
Another thing I love about the Strong division is that you get to see every wrestler play different roles depending on who they are matching up against, that's why we get different finishes all the time instead of the same "get my finisher in no matter what" thing that every damn promotion in the world seems to be enamored with. I love how guys like Aoki and Nomura don't give a flying fukk about Daichi being the champ, they know dude is only a couple of years older and they got straight at him
in Aoki's case though, he's gotta learn his place and we see Daichi being a convincing "senior", he fukking obliterates Aoki, who has to dig very deep - and gets the small, quiet crowd to rally behind him - to make a nice comeback. Another fun little match, finish is once again a clever one @Don Ibiza Ibrahimovic I know you praise Jun a lot for how he develops talent, but Daisuke has 4 wrestlers under 25 ready to compete anywhere at any time and deliver a performance that will catch people's attention, that shyt is impressive as fukk.
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MenacingMonk
Tranquilo
I have 4 of the top rated Misawa/Kobashi matches on deck. I wanna watch the 03 MOTY first, but part of me wants to watch them in order. Help me out here, guys.
Jmare007
pico pal q lee
Save the 03' match for last as you'll appreaciate the "meaning" of the ending more.
They were never able to surpass 1/20/97 though
MenacingMonk
Tranquilo
That's the first match I got. 97, 98, 99, 03Save the 03' match for last as you'll appreaciate the "meaning" of the ending more.
They were never able to surpass 1/20/97 though
Superkick Party
Atlus / Ryū ga Gotoku
I think I need to start watching DDT, can anyone give me some recs?
MightyHealthy
said what he said
Strong Style Evolved was full of tags, but the best one that wasn't the main event was a great primer for Okada/ZSJ
Scottie Drippin
Should Never Mention Me
Okada himself admitting the bullshyt
Bu bu bu "Strong Style" is about hitting people hard
See, I've always defined "strong style" as the Inoki style which lasted through the 90's via Hash, and into the 00's with Takayama. That real shoot-ish, hard hitting style built around hard impact and sudden shifts and rises in drama and usually, shorter matches. With Nagata/Shinsuke/Tenzan up top the shift began to a more "professional wrestling" approach, still rooted in the strong style frame but now focused on long form grappling and submission stuff.
Tana's rise though ushered in an entirely new style that is straight up modern, hyper athletic professional wrestling, and his matches especially with Nagata at the time seemed to really focus on Tana's style not being "tough" and him having to level up in that department to prove himself to Nagata and the strong style loyalists in the crowd. With Tana as the Ace, strong style got moved on from. Even down to him throwing Inoki's poster in the bushes in '07.
That's what made Naka's heel turn and Strong Style Revival so compelling, because Strong Style was now a relic of NJPW's past and it was like someone trying to bring 90's west coast banging on wax hip-hop and thuggery back.
Calling what NJ does now strong style is unfortunately (and gonna sound real snobby and snarky about this) such a post-Okada/BC fan thing to say.
In reality, no one in modern NJ uses strong style. Elements, sure. But all individual stylistic flourishes have been applied on top of Tana's wrestling ideology. Even stuff like Shibata/Ishii has more in common with a Tana match than a classic strong style match. They break so many strong style conventions in those matches that the only thing they have in common is hard hitting.
So yeah, to you're point. I guess people, especially on this side of the ocean, just think strong style = hitting hard
Jmare007
pico pal q lee
That's just head cannon though. I mean, of course each one of us can categorize a certain style by seeing the beginnings of a promotion/wrestler and then how it started to evolve while at the same time maintaining base similarities to the original.
BUT, Strong Style was never a wrestling style, it was a catchphrase/slogan created by Inoki. It was never about moves, transitions, strikes, or anything really. It was just the wrestling being used by New Japan.
shyt just got co-opted by westerners because it sounder cooler and easier to categorize the "way they wrestle in Japan".
That's why it's so funny to me when people really bought into Nakamura's "Strong Style". That's like Cena leaving WWE, working New Japan and Japanese fans going "He's bringing the WWE Universe with him
"
MightyHealthy
said what he said
I wanted Naito to win, but the idea of Tana's last big title match being a defense of his record...probably better for history in the long run.
Okada better be tasked with some title elevation after this, though.
Okada better be tasked with some title elevation after this, though.
Jmare007
pico pal q lee
You mean the same story they did with Nagata and Tana in 11? The old Ace putting over the new Ace for the THIRD TIME because he wants to hold to his title defense?
It would be cool if Naito gets the belt at Dominion though. The story between Naito and Osaka is pretty dope and it's the same place were 2 years ago Okada defeated him to start his current reign.
Still, it wouldn't mean he should've lost at WK though, that shyt is still
status.
Scottie Drippin
Should Never Mention Me
I think you just defined a style family.
And people use terms related to eras to define them all the time. Bowie didn't start calling his music Berlin style or define it that way, but his music of that time has a particular approach to it and thus, the Berlin era.Of course it was just a slogan. No one is going to be in a MMA promotion talking about they're a black-belt Strong Stylist. It was a term to sell, just like Attitude was, but you can't tell me that the attitude era didn't have a particular main event style (not talking about run-ins or the booking, but just the way the matches were worked). No one would be like "WWE UNIVERSE STYLE
" now if Cena went over because the format now isn't something marketed, promoted, or even all that well liked (
) but if Austin went over in the late 90's or especially if the Smackdown Six went over in the early 00's a lot of Japanese fans would be like "OH shyt RUTHLESS AGGRESSION IN NJPW "I don't think you can be made at people using a slogan to define an era and everything it was made of. You can be mad at people applying that slogan to define the shyt it didn't define in the first place
Jmare007
pico pal q lee
I think you just defined a style family.
Of course it was just a slogan. No one is going to be in a MMA promotion talking about they're a black-belt Strong Stylist. It was a term to sell, just like Attitude was, but you can't tell me that the attitude era didn't have a particular main event style (not talking about run-ins or the booking, but just the way the matches were worked). No one would be like "WWE UNIVERSE STYLE
I don't think you can be made at people using a slogan to define an era and everything it was made of. You can be mad at people applying that slogan to define the shyt it didn't define in the first place
It becomes harder with New Japan though, because they STILL market Strong Style as the wrestling that's wrestled there and we all know -and as you explained above - the current matches have little to no co-relation to the original or even the evolution of it. That's why Okada doesn't even know how to answer that question and just goes "
"As I said, you can categorize "Strong Style" as 70' to mid 2000's New Japan. Hell, I agree with you that the basis of what Inoki started were still there up to that point. But that's just head cannon. Ain't nothing wrong with that. The fact remains that NJPW still uses the same slogan and promotion though. Us using it for different purposes and co-opting it as a concept doesn't make us right. That's my whole point, as long as we all agree that is all bullshyt I'm fine with it, but people taking it so seriously and really buying into it it's probably my biggest wrestling pet peeve.
All Japan STILL uses King's Road to promote their "brand" of wrestling. We can head cannon that shyt and talk about "89' to 97' was the real King's Road" or that NOAH was the true heir of it until all went to shyt for them. But the fact still remains that King's Road is just the wrestling that happens in All Japan.
Fans - Double Talk Dave included - talking about "Strong Style" when two indy dudes are hitting each other hard and trading false finishes or submissions holds always makes me go
and the Nakamura thing is even more funny, specially because in WWE he's more about "lazy as fukk style" than SS