It's insane how most of the hijackers were under 25....

Sukairain

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No matter how much you study those guys, you'll just get even more confused. I just don't get they're reasoning. Hell, I don't get Bin Laden's reasoning for 9/11. Every grievance he listed seemed lofty and not a concrete reason to attack the United States.

No, it's perfectly understandable. The philosopher Soren Kierkegaard wrote about this in the 19th century, with a concept he called the teleological suspension of the ethical in his book Fear and Trembling. In it, he problematized all the Abrahamic religions by saying that they all applied this concept, the teleological suspension of the ethical, and that due to this the religions were fundamentally evil. Because of their evilness, it is easy to see why their followers have over thousands of years so readily and easily turned to violence and murder to get their way.

What it means is basically, suspending your adherence to good moral conduct (the suspension of the ethical) for a purpose (teleology) - for a 'greater good.'

He observed that this is literally built-in to Abrahamism, through the foundation or origin story of the religion, the Binding of Isaac.

Abraham took his son for sacrifice to the top of a mountain because his god ordered it. There was some sort of bet I think, between the god and the devil. (I'm not sure if it was here or with Job, I get confused.) But supposing there was a bet here, the bet was that Abraham wouldn't sacrifice his own son just because the god ordered it. The devil was gambling on Abraham's commitment to keeping the ethical alive, to behaving in a moral way, over being obedient to orders. The god bet otherwise, that his authority was strong enough and that Abraham would be loyal enough to do whatever was ordered, including sacrificing his own son - the most evil order anybody could give to a father.

The devil showed up to the mountain top in a last ditch effort to save his bet, in the form of a serpent. Three times the serpent begged Abraham to not go ahead with it, to untie his son from the altar and not sacrifice him, to save his life. And three times Abraham ignored it. This is symbolized in Islam during the Hajj, the people who go all throw three stones at this big rock which is supposed to symbolize the devil's attempt to persuade Abraham to disobey orders.

In the end the god lets Abraham know this was only a test of his loyalty. He's very happy to see how loyal Abraham is, and says he'll be happy with a goat instead of Isaac. So Abraham untied his son and killed a goat instead for sacrifice. The religions all celebrate this moment. But that's because they all take the perspective of Abraham, they celebrate his obedience. Can you put yourself in Isaac's shoes for a minute? You're just a little boy and your own father, who you love and trust and rely on for protection, was just about ready to kill you; he had you tied up on an altar and held the knife right above you. What a traumatic and horrific experience that would have been. It must have destroyed him psychologically, completely.

So, Kierkegaard concluded, these religions all revere a patriarch who was so committed that he was ready to kill his own son in the name and for the sake of his god. This is called the teleological suspension of the ethical. Doing what you know is fukking evil, for a cause or a purpose which supposedly justifies you doing that evil thing. Because they have this origin story, it's no problem for them to kill anybody or do anything in the name of their god. Including but hardly limited to flying planes into buildings. After all, if Abraham was ready to kill his own son when the orders came through, what's killing 3000 strangers in the Twin Towers to you?

Osama Bin Laden and his followers saw themselves as Abrahams, and they saw their victims as Isaacs. They viewed themselves as heroic, brave, noble, loyal, devoted, full of love, pure-hearted, just like Abraham did.
 
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JadeB

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No, it's perfectly understandable. The philosopher Soren Kierkegaard wrote about this in the 19th century, with a concept he called the teleological suspension of the ethical in his book Fear and Trembling. In it, he problematized all the Abrahamic religions by saying that they all applied this concept, the teleological suspension of the ethical, and that due to this the religions were fundamentally evil. Because of their evilness, it is easy to see why their followers have over thousands of years so readily and easily turned to violence and murder to get their way.

What it means is basically, suspending your adherence to good moral conduct (the suspension of the ethical) for a purpose (teleology) - for a 'greater good.'

He observed that this is literally built-in to Abrahamism, through the foundation or origin story of the religion, the Binding of Isaac.

Abraham took his son for sacrifice to the top of a mountain because his god ordered it. There was some sort of bet I think, between the god and the devil. (I'm not sure if it was here or with Job, I get confused.) But supposing there was a bet here, the bet was that Abraham wouldn't sacrifice his own son just because the god ordered it. The devil was gambling on Abraham's commitment to keeping the ethical alive, to behaving in a moral way, over being obedient to orders. The god bet otherwise, that his authority was strong enough and that Abraham would be loyal enough to do whatever was ordered, including sacrificing his own son - the most evil order anybody could give to a father.

The devil showed up to the mountain top in a last ditch effort to save his bet, in the form of a serpent. Three times the serpent begged Abraham to not go ahead with it, to untie his son from the altar and not sacrifice him, to save his life. And three times Abraham ignored it. This is symbolized in Islam during the Hajj, the people who go all throw three stones at this big rock which is supposed to symbolize the devil's attempt to persuade Abraham to disobey orders.

In the end the god lets Abraham know this was only a test of his loyalty. He's very happy to see how loyal Abraham is, and says he'll be happy with a goat instead of Isaac. So Abraham untied his son and killed a goat instead for sacrifice. The religions all celebrate this moment. But that's because they all take the perspective of Abraham, they celebrate his obedience. Can you put yourself in Isaac's shoes for a minute? You're just a little boy and your own father, who you love and trust and rely on for protection, was just about ready to kill you; he had you tied up on an altar and held the knife right above you. What a traumatic and horrific experience that would have been. It must have destroyed him psychologically, completely.

So, Kierkegaard concluded, these religions all revere a patriarch who was so committed that he was ready to kill his own son in the name and for the sake of his god. This is called the teleological suspension of the ethical. Doing what you know is fukking evil, for a cause or a purpose which supposedly justifies you doing that evil thing. Because they have this origin story, it's no problem for them to kill anybody or do anything in the name of their god. Including but hardly limited to flying planes into buildings. After all, if Abraham was ready to kill his own son when the orders came through, what's killing 3000 strangers in the Twin Towers to you?

Osama Bin Laden and his followers saw themselves as Abrahams, and they saw their victims as Isaacs. They viewed themselves as heroic, brave, noble, loyal, devoted, full of love, pure-hearted, just like Abraham did.
If I can rep, I would. I feel like religion (especially but not exclusively Abrahamic) is used as an excuse or crutch for someone to exercise their destructive thoughts. Like, there some people who truly want the world to burn so they the use the orders of God to explain away their thoughts. Because, without they're forced to evaluate themselves morally. The phrase "for your own good" comes to mind.



 

Spiritual Stratocaster

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Literally the oldest one was Mohamed Atta and he was 33. A few were in their late 20s but the bulk were young nikkas. The definition of crash test dummies. Imagine dying for a millionaire who's been chilling in a mansion in Pakistan:picard:
What was Obama's bullshyt reasoning for not showing proof bin laden was dead again?
 

Spiritual Stratocaster

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More proof of how dangerous religion is. You got people willing to sacrifice themselves and massacre others because someone wrote in a book 1400 years ago that you’d get rewarded for it in heaven :francis:
It's not religion it's clearly the devil and his demons.

It's a spiritual war going on breh.
 

Spiritual Stratocaster

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No, it's perfectly understandable. The philosopher Soren Kierkegaard wrote about this in the 19th century, with a concept he called the teleological suspension of the ethical in his book Fear and Trembling. In it, he problematized all the Abrahamic religions by saying that they all applied this concept, the teleological suspension of the ethical, and that due to this the religions were fundamentally evil. Because of their evilness, it is easy to see why their followers have over thousands of years so readily and easily turned to violence and murder to get their way.

What it means is basically, suspending your adherence to good moral conduct (the suspension of the ethical) for a purpose (teleology) - for a 'greater good.'

He observed that this is literally built-in to Abrahamism, through the foundation or origin story of the religion, the Binding of Isaac.

Abraham took his son for sacrifice to the top of a mountain because his god ordered it. There was some sort of bet I think, between the god and the devil. (I'm not sure if it was here or with Job, I get confused.) But supposing there was a bet here, the bet was that Abraham wouldn't sacrifice his own son just because the god ordered it. The devil was gambling on Abraham's commitment to keeping the ethical alive, to behaving in a moral way, over being obedient to orders. The god bet otherwise, that his authority was strong enough and that Abraham would be loyal enough to do whatever was ordered, including sacrificing his own son - the most evil order anybody could give to a father.

The devil showed up to the mountain top in a last ditch effort to save his bet, in the form of a serpent. Three times the serpent begged Abraham to not go ahead with it, to untie his son from the altar and not sacrifice him, to save his life. And three times Abraham ignored it. This is symbolized in Islam during the Hajj, the people who go all throw three stones at this big rock which is supposed to symbolize the devil's attempt to persuade Abraham to disobey orders.

In the end the god lets Abraham know this was only a test of his loyalty. He's very happy to see how loyal Abraham is, and says he'll be happy with a goat instead of Isaac. So Abraham untied his son and killed a goat instead for sacrifice. The religions all celebrate this moment. But that's because they all take the perspective of Abraham, they celebrate his obedience. Can you put yourself in Isaac's shoes for a minute? You're just a little boy and your own father, who you love and trust and rely on for protection, was just about ready to kill you; he had you tied up on an altar and held the knife right above you. What a traumatic and horrific experience that would have been. It must have destroyed him psychologically, completely.

So, Kierkegaard concluded, these religions all revere a patriarch who was so committed that he was ready to kill his own son in the name and for the sake of his god. This is called the teleological suspension of the ethical. Doing what you know is fukking evil, for a cause or a purpose which supposedly justifies you doing that evil thing. Because they have this origin story, it's no problem for them to kill anybody or do anything in the name of their god. Including but hardly limited to flying planes into buildings. After all, if Abraham was ready to kill his own son when the orders came through, what's killing 3000 strangers in the Twin Towers to you?

Osama Bin Laden and his followers saw themselves as Abrahams, and they saw their victims as Isaacs. They viewed themselves as heroic, brave, noble, loyal, devoted, full of love, pure-hearted, just like Abraham did.
Except it wasn't a bet on why Abraham was about to sacrifice his son
:unimpressed:

Read scripture first before you attack it breh.
 

Bigsuk

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Pure crash dummies …. Willing to kill thousands and them selfs to just please bin laden … so stupid who doesn’t even get his hands dirty get crash dummies to do his dirty work ….. all they did was create hatered and division in the world idiots….
 

Jalether

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Literally the oldest one was Mohamed Atta and he was 33. A few were in their late 20s but the bulk were young nikkas. The definition of crash test dummies. Imagine dying for a millionaire who's been chilling in a mansion in Pakistan:picard:

correction, billionaire, but I agree:picard:
 

motion order

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Old men for counsel, young men for war.



The philosopher Soren Kierkegaard wrote about this in the 19th century, with a concept he called the teleological suspension of the ethical in his book Fear and Trembling. In it, he problematized all the Abrahamic religions by saying that they all applied this concept, the teleological suspension of the ethical, and that due to this the religions were fundamentally evil.

The term, "Abrahamic religions," if not flat out inaccurate, is at best, biblically unsound.
 
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