it took 5 Years but the GOP finally puts up a healthcare plan

[OneManGang]

I dont see how it can... but even if it did, it would still be morally wrong. IMO

What do you find morally wrong about it?

 

[DEAD7]

What do you find morally wrong about it?

The government being able to force people to buy a good/service is absurd, and wrong as far as i'm concerned.

I know government force(initiating force in general as well) is popular here in HL, but its really a terrible thing...

Its also tossed out with no mention of all the prior government programs that were supposed to "fix" healthcare lol
The FDA, Medicaid, Medicare, the prescription drug program, etc. They all promised to do the same thing as the previous program, and all have failed.

its mind boggling how so many of you have such faith in government given its track record...

 

[CACtain Planet]

The government being able to force people to buy a good/service is absurd, and wrong as far as i'm concerned.

I know government force(initiating force in general as well) is popular here in HL, but its really a terrible thing...

Its also tossed out with no mention of all the prior government programs that were supposed to "fix" healthcare lol
The FDA, Medicaid, Medicare, the prescription drug program, etc. They all promised to do the same thing as the previous program, and all have failed.

its mind boggling how so many of you have such faith in government given its track record...

Ive been making this argument for years but the sheep still dont get it... It sets a precedent in which the federal government in the future can force citizens to purchase any private product (health insurance is a private product) that they deem necessary to better the "good of the public"... shyt crazy still boggles my mind how the supreme court ruled it constitutional

 

[Blackking]

Smart approach, but very, very, late.

that's the biggest issue.... they seem like they had 0 ideas for a while,

now people are like fukk it.... obamacare, whatever.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Its also tossed out with no mention of all the prior government programs that were supposed to "fix" healthcare lol
The FDA, Medicaid, Medicare, the prescription drug program, etc. They all promised to do the same thing as the previous program, and all have failed.

its mind boggling how so many of you have such faith in government given its track record...

How has Medicare and Medicaid failed in your opinion?

 

[DEAD7]

How has Medicare and Medicaid failed in your opinion?

Every decade we need a new federal program to help with healthcare... That alone makes it hard to call any of them a success.

What shocks me even more, is that none of them go away, we add new programs on top of them, and continue to fund them with money we dont have... its insane.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Every decade we need a new federal program to help with healthcare... That alone makes it hard to call any of them a success.

What shocks me even more, is that none of them go away, we add new programs on top of them, and continue to fund them with money we dont have... its insane.

I see that angle, but at the same time, I shudder just thinking about what if my Grandma and Uncle did not have medicare\medicaid to lean own right now.

I can see both sides to the argument I guess

 

[DEAD7]

I see that angle, but at the same time, I shudder just thinking about what if my Grandma and Uncle did not have medicare\medicaid to lean own right now.

I can see both sides to the argument I guess

Bear with me now...

Whats wrong with people putting money aside themselves(the money the Gov is taking), and taking responsibility for their own care? I keep hearing that's crazy, but know one will explain why...

Is it because life has winners and losers, and we don't want anyone to lose? cause if so that's crazy in itself.

 

[Piff Perkins]

Plan is a joke and highlights why these cacs are dangerous: they don't take governing seriously.
Buying insurance across state lines doesn't help people, it helps insurance companies: they get to move to states with the worst regulation and limit choices. Same shyt happened with the credit card industry and we know how that turned out.

A pool for pre-existing condition people is fine...if temporary. If you keep it going, those people are stuck with high costs. Obamacare had a temporary plan for them but it ended a few months ago I think. Now they'll get to sign up in the exchanges with everyone else. The CORE of Obamacare is getting young, healthy people to sign up for insurance. If they do that, the average premium costs will be kept low/average, despite sick and old people also signing up. If young people don't sign up, the exchanges will be stuck with old/sick people and thus high costs.

Finally the GOP plan is a big fukk you to the MILLIONS of poor and working poor who will get free (or cheap) coverage under Obamacare. That 40mil of people is left in the dark, meaning they'll continue going to the emergency room thus raising everyone's premiums.

Am I an Obamacare fanboy? Hell no. But it's going to work overall, and put us on a path to real universal healthcare/single payer. Which is where we need to go.

 

[Starman]

Plan is a joke and highlights why these cacs are dangerous: they don't take governing seriously.
Buying insurance across state lines doesn't help people, it helps insurance companies: they get to move to states with the worst regulation and limit choices. Same shyt happened with the credit card industry and we know how that turned out.

A pool for pre-existing condition people is fine...if temporary. If you keep it going, those people are stuck with high costs. Obamacare had a temporary plan for them but it ended a few months ago I think. Now they'll get to sign up in the exchanges with everyone else. The CORE of Obamacare is getting young, healthy people to sign up for insurance. If they do that, the average premium costs will be kept low/average, despite sick and old people also signing up. If young people don't sign up, the exchanges will be stuck with old/sick people and thus high costs.

Finally the GOP plan is a big fukk you to the MILLIONS of poor and working poor who will get free (or cheap) coverage under Obamacare. That 40mil of people is left in the dark, meaning they'll continue going to the emergency room thus raising everyone's premiums.

Am I an Obamacare fanboy? Hell no. But it's going to work overall, and put us on a path to real universal healthcare/single payer. Which is where we need to go.

I didn't review the Republican plan yet, but buying across state lines should mean more competition and lower prices.

As for the young and healthy getting insurance, why should they? Charity? They probably won't need it.

I do agree with your last point though, but I don't think that's where we need to be.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Bear with me now...

Whats wrong with people putting money aside themselves(the money the Gov is taking), and taking responsibility for their own care? I keep hearing that's crazy, but know one will explain why...

Is it because life has winners and losers, and we don't want anyone to lose? cause if so that's crazy in itself.

Well, at one point in time there wasn't equal opportunity so you were forced to be a loser. If my Grandma and Uncle who are both over 80, had a fair shake in their lifetime, maybe they could have put aside for medical expenses. But because of Jim Crow, discrimination, etc, they could not find a gig that matched their aptitude and work ethic from a salary stand point.

To me it all boils down to how you want your tax dollars spent. It isn't like any of us are getting an authentic itemized receipt detailing where every tax cent is going. As far we know, social programs may not be draining our tax dollar like we are lead to believe.

 

[DEAD7]

Well, at one point in time there wasn't equal opportunity so you were forced to be a loser. If my Grandma and Uncle who are both over 80, had a fair shake in their lifetime, maybe they could have put aside for medical expenses. But because of Jim Crow, discrimination, etc, they could not find a gig that matched their aptitude and work ethic from a salary stand point.

To me it all boils down to how you want your tax dollars spent. It isn't like any of us are getting an authentic itemized receipt detailing where every tax cent is going. As far we know, social programs may not be draining our tax dollar like we are lead to believe.

Fair enough.

What would you say to Americans receiving every cent they earn and then sending in their taxes to the IRS/State, and possibly even having some say in what it was spent on???

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Fair enough.

What would you say to Americans receiving every cent they earn and then sending in their taxes to the IRS/State, and possibly even having some say in what it was spent on???

In theory that sounds fantastic, and I would love to give that a shot....

Logistically, I'm not sure if its feasible. Taxes are spent on so much stuff we have no clue about.....

 

[NZA]

these republicans never calculate shyt for poor people, got damn. even in bullshyt think tank projects that will never become policies they just dont even bother to try to think of the uninsured poor

 

[Piff Perkins]

I didn't review the Republican plan yet, but buying across state lines should mean more competition and lower prices.

As for the young and healthy getting insurance, why should they? Charity? They probably won't need it.

I do agree with your last point though, but I don't think that's where we need to be.

Your first point is simply not true. The problem, as I explained, is that it allows insurance to move to states with the worst regulations and thus rip off customers.

Conservatives want the opposite: They want insurers to be able to cluster in one state, follow that state's regulations and sell the product to everyone in the country. In practice, that means we will have a single national insurance standard. But that standard will be decided by South Dakota. Or, if South Dakota doesn't give the insurers the freedom they want, it'll be decided by Wyoming. Or whoever.

This is exactly what happened in the credit card industry, which is regulated in accordance with conservative wishes. In 1980, Bill Janklow, the governor of South Dakota, made a deal with Citibank: If Citibank would move its credit card business to South Dakota, the governor would literally let Citibank write South Dakota's credit card regulations. You can read Janklow's recollections of the pact here.

Citibank wrote an absurdly pro-credit card law, the legislature passed it, and soon all the credit card companies were heading to South Dakota. And that's exactly what would happen with health-care insurance. The industry would put its money into buying the legislature of a small, conservative, economically depressed state. The deal would be simple: Let us write the regulations and we'll bring thousands of jobs and lots of tax dollars to you. Someone will take it. The result will be an uncommonly tiny legislature in an uncommonly small state that answers to an uncommonly conservative electorate that will decide what insurance will look like for the rest of the nation.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/02/selling_insurance_across_state.html

On young people getting insurance: luckily polls show young people believe they need health insurance. The question has been whether young people would give up some of their disposable income to take care of themselves. So far the Obamacare monthly rates look pretty good in multiple states, ranging from $100-300 a month with subsidies.