‘It keeps the French safe’: US lawmakers defend spying :troll:

88m3

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© AFP
US lawmakers took to the airwaves over the weekend to defend the National Security Agency’s surveillance programme after a week of mounting French and German outrage, saying Europeans should be grateful for US spying since it keeps them safe.
By FRANCE 24 (text)

US Republican lawmakers took to the airwaves over the weekend, defending US spying operations in France and Germany after a week of mounting official and public outrage over the wide scope of the National Security Agency’s surveillance programme.

Defending Washington’s spying operations in an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press” on Sunday, Republican Congressman Peter King, chairman of the House subcommittee on counterterrorism and intelligence, said Europeans should be grateful for US spying operations because they keep them safe.

King also said that US President Barack Obama should stop apologising to his European allies.

"The reality is the NSA [National Security Agency] has saved thousands of lives, not just in the United States but also in France and Germany and throughout Europe. The French are some ones to talk; the fact is, they've carried out spying operations against the United States, both the government and industry. As far as Germany, that's where the Hamburg plot began, which led to 9/11,” said King, referring to the cell of Islamist radicals based in the German city of Hamburg, which included 9/11 ringleader Mohamed Atta.

King’s statement followed a report by the German newspaper, Der Spiegel, that the US may have bugged German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s phone since 2002.

France has also expressed outrage over reports that the NSA recorded millions of phone calls made in France. Both France and Germany have summoned the US ambassador in their respective capitals as the diplomatic fallout of the latest scandal snowballed last week.

Media gets ‘one slide’ with the word ‘France’
But in an interview with CNN’s “State of the Nation” show over the weekend, Mike Rogers, chairman of the House of Representatives intelligence committee, said French citizens would celebrate US phone intercepts in their country if they realised how the practice keeps them safe.


"If the French citizens knew exactly what that was about, they would be applauding and popping champagne corks. It's a good thing. It keeps the French safe. It keeps the US safe. It keeps our European allies safe," said Rogers.

"This whole notion that we're going to go after each other on what is really legitimate protection of nation-state interest, I think is disingenuous."

While defending the NSA’s track record, Rogers suggested that the news coverage in Europe had been misguided.

"They are seeing three or four pieces of a thousand-piece puzzle and trying to come to a conclusion," he said.

The media was given one slide, which included the word "France" on it, Rogers said, which "started a huge amount of discussion about Americans collecting phone calls in France with French citizens. That is 100 percent wrong". The slide referred to a counter-terrorism program that had nothing to do with French citizens, he added.

Protesters march on Capitol Hill

Outrage over the NSA’s communications dragnet, which has been exposed by whistleblower Edward Snowden, has been mounting on both sides of the Atlantic.

On Saturday, a mixed group of protesters marched on Capitol Hill in Washington to protest against the government's online surveillance programs.

People carried signs reading: "Stop Mass Spying," "Thank you, Edward Snowden" and "Unplug Big Brother" as they gathered to demonstrate against the online surveillance by the NSA.

Estimates varied on the size of the march, with organisers saying more than 2,000 attended.

The march attracted protesters from both ends of the political spectrum as liberal privacy advocates walked alongside members of the conservative Tea Party movement in opposition to what they say is unlawful government spying on Americans.

In Europe, public anger against the revelation has been mounting, particularly in Germany following last week’s reports that the US may have bugged Merkel’s phone for more than 10 years.

A poll for Der Spiegel found that 60 percent of Germans believe the scandal has damaged bilateral ties.

The spying row prompted European leaders late last week to demand a new deal with Washington on intelligence gathering that would maintain an essential alliance while keeping the fight against terrorism on track.

http://www.france24.com/en/20131028-usa-nsa-france-germany-lawmakers-defend-spying-europe-safe

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88m3

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the no fukks given by NSA is worrisome

I almost wonder if they're doing it on purpose at this point to tell NATO and Europe to start carrying their own weight.

The whole Snowden thing doesn't ring true to me either.

It was also reported today they recorded 60m phone calls in a month in Spain.

If this information was in the public domain for all these months why the dust up now?

Also it's not a secret that they all spy on each other. It could just be for internal consumption I suppose.

Maybe a mix of all of the above.

:manny:
 

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I almost wonder if they're doing it on purpose at this point to tell NATO and Europe to start carrying their own weight.

The whole Snowden thing doesn't ring true to me either.

It was also reported today they recorded 60m phone calls in a month in Spain.

If this information was in the public domain for all these months why the dust up now?

Also it's not a secret that they all spy on each other. It could just be for internal consumption I suppose.

Maybe a mix of all of the above.

:manny:

Might be.

The thing is that it's the belief in american exceptionalism, paranoia, and utter disrespect towards sovereignty that bothers me. Why would you want to "spy" on an ally instead of aiding them by, maybe, I don't know, share the information you've gathered? Why not allow the national agencies in all the countries they put under surveillance find the people themselves? It's like U.S. is telling them to fiend for themselves, as you said, but at the same time not allowing them to. Really mind-blown at how they handled it since, let's face it, EU and U.S. are sharing a common burden which is the economic disaster that has happened and will continue until they find common ground on how to adapt to the world they've created.
 

88m3

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Might be.

The thing is that it's the belief in american exceptionalism, paranoia, and utter disrespect towards sovereignty that bothers me. Why would you want to "spy" on an ally instead of aiding them by, maybe, I don't know, share the information you've gathered? Why not allow the national agencies in all the countries they put under surveillance find the people themselves? It's like U.S. is telling them to fiend for themselves, as you said, but at the same time not allowing them to. Really mind-blown at how they handled it since, let's face it, EU and U.S. are sharing a common burden which is the economic disaster that has happened and will continue until they find common ground on how to adapt to the world they've created.

Right. Well they've always spied on each other and have always had a distrust of one another even during the Cold War. A lot of what we're seeing is industrial sabotage and trying to get an edge there along with what way the wind is blowing on issues. I don't think it's all malice. We even spy on the Canadians and British. There is a decent amount of intelligence sharing from what I've read especially between Anglo countries, but a lot of times they've found infiltrators and leaks in their overseas counterparts. Spot on with the last sentence.
 
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Morph

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If the NSA recorded 60 million phone calls in Spain in 1 month... how many did they record here at home? How many text messages and emails did they intercept?

I'm surprised Obama came out and defended PRISM because he said back in 2007 he wouldn't allow anything like that to happen under his watch
"No more illegal wiretapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing but protest a misguided war."
 

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Right. Well they've always spied on each other and have always had a distrust of one another even during the Cold War. A lot of what we're seeing is industrial sabotage and trying to get an edge there along with what way the wind is blowing on issues. I don't think it's all malice. We even spy on the Canadians and British. There is a decent amount of intelligence sharing from what I've read especially between Anglo countries, but a lot of times they've found infiltrators and leaks in their overseas counterparts. Spot on with the last sentence.

True but it's not the spying solely, it's the blatant disrespect. Congressmen, Senators etc coming out and pointing fingers like the other world leaders aren't out to protect their nations the same away Americans are. Also, wiretap citizens, OK, but to wiretap one of the most important PM in the world in Merkel? :comeon:
 

Dooby

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I suggest everyone to buy the game Civilization 5. Greatest education available when it comes to understanding international relations.

Necessary evil is a very true thing. Backstabbing is a very necessary thing. Snooping is a very, necessary, thing!
 

godkiller

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Why does there have to be a justification for spying on foreigners?

We can KILL foreigners under national security auspices but there has to be a discussion on spying on them?

Who gives a shyt about the French. a great american once said, "no no no new friends. no new friends." In other words, we have no allies, only interests.
 
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godkiller

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Might be.

The thing is that it's the belief in american exceptionalism, paranoia, and utter disrespect towards sovereignty that bothers me. Why would you want to "spy" on an ally instead of aiding them by, maybe, I don't know, share the information you've gathered? Why not allow the national agencies in all the countries they put under surveillance find the people themselves? It's like U.S. is telling them to fiend for themselves, as you said, but at the same time not allowing them to. Really mind-blown at how they handled it since, let's face it, EU and U.S. are sharing a common burden which is the economic disaster that has happened and will continue until they find common ground on how to adapt to the world they've created.

What are you talking? First of all the developed world crashed, not just the EU and USA. The EU crashed for different reasons than the US. They crashed because their economies are garbage and Americans shouldn't have to prop up their fraudulent lifestyles. That's not why anyone pays tax dollars.

Second, the US has an obligation to protect the well being, general welfare and interest of its citizens. It has the right to do damn near anything to achieve this aim. Let France, England, Poland, the Czech Republic, all these nations do them.

Third, if spying benefits us, then we should definitely do it. I don't see why there's any moral difference between spying on England and spying on Egypt. We could be allies with Egypt tommorow and enemies with England in 20 years. Just do whatever it takes.
 
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☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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Well...duh. We have the intel assets the rest of the world wants. Thats why they're allies. They're just faking this "we're so disappointed" shyt to play up for the plebians who honestly believe otherwise.
 

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Ya'll ever wonder why nations that were once sea-bound rulers of the world are no more?

The US' military basically secures ALL of their worries and all they have to do is admit that we're alike culturally and we're all hunkydory.

Those 11 aircraft carrier are a MASSIVE form of influence.
 

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I suggest everyone to buy the game Civilization 5. Greatest education available when it comes to understanding international relations.

Necessary evil is a very true thing. Backstabbing is a very necessary thing. Snooping is a very, necessary, thing!

Precisely.

I say this all the time. You either want a world government, or you want nation states.

You can't have both.

If yuo want nation states, then some people are going to try and not be the bytch to someone else.
 

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Germany and France just want in on the Five Eyes agreement.

Bingo.

Frankly, Germany and all their political fukkery they got going on, despite them being economically stable makes me weary of letting them in.

Ain't no way they still got those right-wing fascist groups still making noise and the same with France.

Culturally, Europe is pretty interesting. On the outside they seem like they got it together, but they're ALWAYS on the edge of shyt not going well.
 
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