ill
Superstar
what are you talking about? Give Palestinians equal say in a nation they aren’t a part of??
Israeli military forces out here being scumbags again
- Thread starter hood b. goode
- Start date
what are you talking about? Give Palestinians equal say in a nation they aren’t a part of??
thatrapsfan
Superstar
If you take a much bigger picture perspective, civilian deaths on the Israeli side have never been lower than the past decade, yet their politics has been on an endless march to the right. Aside from very small left wing parties, which have limited support, there is a tight cross-party consensus on settlement expansion and military strategy.
Diplomacy only works, when there is a cost extracted from both sides that forces them to the table. It may not be possible to extract a serious military cost from Israel, but reality is no chance that relative peace will lead to concessions. They have zero incentive to do so, they have the military edge and powerful political and military supportive.
The rockets may not be the best way to extract the cost to force concessions, but neither will a more "moderate" Palestinian faction. Fatah for all intents and purposes has given up their military struggle, has cooperated openly with Israel to contain activism and rebellion in the West Bank and what has it got them? Ditto for current source of latest flare up. There is no military presence in East Jerusalem and yet the slow march to a complete takeover of the city continues.
Also note all the major diplomatic concessions of territory and/or position in this conflict preceded periods of serious rebellion/military conflict:
-Camp David Accords followed Yom Kippur War
-Oslo Accords followed the Second Intifada
-Withdrawal from Southern Lebanon followed decades of fighting
-Serious diplomatic activity following Second Intifada
Also its early, but so far, there is a distinction in current iteration of conflict. Its first time that major cities across Israel have felt conflict in a long time. The Iron Dome is not a 100 percent effective and still required closure of Tel Aviv's airport, shelter in place etc. Usually this is only experienced in small towns very close to Gaza border. Also first time in decades that there is serious turbulence/rioting from Palestinians living in Israel.
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
Json
Superstar
Lol.
So which is it? Israel gets to dictate the lives of Palestinians and shove them out of their lands in a state they aren’t apart of according to you but Palestinians getting to dictate Jewish lively hood is a step too far?
That’s what apartheid is. Citizens with no rights but just don’t call it that.
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ill
Superstar
I think you need to learn more about how things work over there.
What you said is basically that Mexican nationals should have an equal say in domestic USA affairs.
Json
Superstar
A Mexican national would have rights to run for or work in local government like a sheriff’s office or school board that affects the lives of US citizens.
You are arguing for colonialism. We control what goes on there but you aren’t apart of us.
You saying Jewish settlers aren’t taking Palestinian lands?
No one is saying Palestinians are blameless from the two-state era policy and Arafat’s stupidity.
You’re arguing in favor of Reconstruction era terrorism. Blacks people have land unless a white person wants it.
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Wargames
One Of The Last Real Ones To Do It
Sure they did
Or after they killed a bunch of innocent people and destroyed buildings they decided to take out a viable target to justify it.
If they could kill a nuclear scientist in fukking Iran there is no excuse for the state ran terrorism they are doing in Gaza.
It’s 2021 and we all know they could accomplish their goals without being as sloppy with civilian casualties...... but that is the point. They want to kill civilians.
Copy Ninja
Superstar
this shyt is incredibly one-sided. i guess Hamas is innocent and israel is the only bad guy in this because they got better weapons.
It's a fukked up situation.
Palestinian terrorists will do shyt to provoke Israel. Israel in turn will come down heavy handed. The world sees it and condemns Israel for their heavy handed response. Israel don't give a fukk because the US backs them. Palestinian terrorists think it's mission accomplished because the world has condemned Israel's response. Rinse and repeat.
Biggest losers are the regular Palestinian folks. Terrorists know a lot of Palestinians will die due to their provocation and they don't give a fukk. Israel cares even less for regular Palestinians.
Good points.
I would just say the previous accords and improvements had a united Palestinian front and Arafat as a clear leader for Palestine. They lack both right now so I do not see what force (political because they dont really have any military wise) they can oppose to Israel.
Both sides are shyt. Gaza Strip is ran by incompetent terrorists like Hamas who keep that population in misery. Israel allows this to continue to beg for aid and hold powers whenever Hamas launches their shytty crude 2 mile traveling rockets while Israel levels whole blocks. It’s a circular game
thatrapsfan
Superstar
This is best summation of current conflict I've seen in American media @Liu Kang @FAH1223
Opinion | The Palestinians being evicted are the real story here
Opinion
The latest Israel-Palestine crisis isn't a 'real estate dispute.' It's ethnic cleansing.
Palestinians are under threat of eviction from their homes in Sheikh Jarrah to make way for Jewish settlers.
May 11, 2021, 5:48 AM EDT
By Hayes Brown, MSNBC Opinion Columnist
As we're watching what might well turn into a third intifada play out in Jerusalem, images of fires burning among the trees outside the Al-Aqsa mosque and reports of children being injured in a new volley of airstrikes in Gaza, I can't get a line from the Israeli Foreign Affairs Ministry out of my head.
"Regrettably, the PA" — the Palestinian Authority — "and Palestinian terror groups are presenting a real-estate dispute between private parties, as a nationalistic cause, in order to incite violence in Jerusalem," the ministry said in a statement Saturday, two days after anger in the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood of east Jerusalem began to boil over.
Rep. Tlaib on Israel-Palestine tensions, Jan. 6 commission
MAY 10, 202106:41
Calling the catalyst of all this a "real estate dispute" is a particularly noxious way to diminish what's actually occurring: Nahalat Shimon, a U.S.-based settler organization, is trying to have Palestinians who have lived in the neighborhood since 1956 evicted. Once they are evicted, the property — occupied by Israel along with the rest of east Jerusalem since 1967 — would then be turned over to Jewish settlers under Israeli law. The six families who have been fighting to keep their homes since 1982 would get nothing to ease their displacement.
For years, the situation in Israel has been painted as a war of survival, the Israelis against the Palestinians and, by proxy, their Arab neighbors. That no longer reflects the realities on the ground, where the ability of one side to harm the other is in no way balanced. This "real-estate dispute," as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government calls it, is a microcosm of the wildly unbalanced Israeli-Palestinian situation today.
This "real-estate dispute," as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government calls it, is a microcosm of the wildly unbalanced Israeli-Palestinian situation today.
Because this is about more than just six families. It's about whether Palestinians will be allowed to live in east Jerusalem at all. The New York Times laid out the imbalance clearly: "In East Jerusalem, Jews are allowed to reclaim property that was under Jewish ownership before 1948. But Palestinian families have no legal mechanism to reclaim land they owned in West Jerusalem or anywhere else in Israel."
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Meanwhile, the Israeli government has thrown up endless roadblocks against new Palestinian construction in the occupied territories. For decades, applications for Israeli permits to build homes on Palestinian-owned land have been rejected with little reason given, making them "nearly impossible for Palestinians to obtain," according to the United Nations. That's not the case for Israelis and Jewish settlers wishing to build in Jerusalem. "Only seven percent of the building permits issued in Jerusalem over the past few years have gone to Palestinian neighborhoods where 40 percent of the city's population lives," the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported in 2015.
Israel-Palestine tensions rise with forced evictions
MAY 7, 202101:57
In the face of these obstructions, Palestinians have built homes on their land anyway, only for the Israeli government to order them torn down. Many who've gotten these eviction notices have opted to raze their homes rather than wait for the Israelis to bill them for the same result. "At least one third of all Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem lack an Israeli-issued building permit, potentially placing over 100,000 residents at risk of displacement," the U.N. warned in 2019.
Many of these evictions, including those in Sheikh Jarrah, are ordered based on petitions from settler organizations that seek to seize the land the homes are built on. These groups have the support of Netanyahu's government, linked as they are to the far-right groups that he needs to retain power.
Video shows rockets being fired toward Jerusalem from Gaza
MAY 10, 202101:11
And so we've seen protests in Sheikh Jarrah. We've seen rocks thrown at Israeli police officers who went to break up the protests. We've seen Israeli police-fired tear gas inside the Al-Aqsa mosque, the third-holiest site in Islam, to clear the building. We've seen people choking while trying to pray during their holy month, apparently in the name of order and stability.
I'm going to pause here to say that yes, it is bad that Hamas responded Monday to the storming of the Al-Aqsa mosque by firing rockets from Gaza. Yes, it is bad that the Palestinian leadership is moribund and corrupt and clinging to power after years of refusing to hold elections. Yes, it is bad that Israeli civilians have been injured in the last week.
A Palestinian's permit to build a home for his family will never be approved without question; an Israeli citizen will never be told to bulldoze his home because it was built on Palestinian land. The system is broken.
But what I'm also saying is that this is not a situation where the two sides are on equal footing. And I don't just mean militarily — as Israeli airstrikes bombard Gaza in response to the rocket attacks — or politically in the Knesset. I mean that under the current system, Israeli and Palestinian civilians aren't granted equal protection under the law. A Palestinian's permit to build a home for his family will never be approved without question; an Israeli citizen will never be told to bulldoze his home because it was built on Palestinian land. The system is broken.
The government can downplay the situation all it wants; it can lean into the idea that the military's actions are necessary in the fight against terrorists. But what the Israelis seem to be unwilling to answer is how this "real-estate" dispute ends. When the state has run out of homes to bulldoze for lack of permits and the settlers fully conquer east Jerusalem, with the "nation-state" law in place and the Supreme Court silent, what happens to the Palestinians who remain? What happens to those non-Israelis who say, "This is my legal home, and I will not go?" When that day comes, how then will Israel justify whatever happens next?
Opinion | The Palestinians being evicted are the real story here
Opinion
The latest Israel-Palestine crisis isn't a 'real estate dispute.' It's ethnic cleansing.
Palestinians are under threat of eviction from their homes in Sheikh Jarrah to make way for Jewish settlers.
May 11, 2021, 5:48 AM EDT
By Hayes Brown, MSNBC Opinion Columnist
As we're watching what might well turn into a third intifada play out in Jerusalem, images of fires burning among the trees outside the Al-Aqsa mosque and reports of children being injured in a new volley of airstrikes in Gaza, I can't get a line from the Israeli Foreign Affairs Ministry out of my head.
"Regrettably, the PA" — the Palestinian Authority — "and Palestinian terror groups are presenting a real-estate dispute between private parties, as a nationalistic cause, in order to incite violence in Jerusalem," the ministry said in a statement Saturday, two days after anger in the Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood of east Jerusalem began to boil over.
Rep. Tlaib on Israel-Palestine tensions, Jan. 6 commission
MAY 10, 202106:41
Calling the catalyst of all this a "real estate dispute" is a particularly noxious way to diminish what's actually occurring: Nahalat Shimon, a U.S.-based settler organization, is trying to have Palestinians who have lived in the neighborhood since 1956 evicted. Once they are evicted, the property — occupied by Israel along with the rest of east Jerusalem since 1967 — would then be turned over to Jewish settlers under Israeli law. The six families who have been fighting to keep their homes since 1982 would get nothing to ease their displacement.
For years, the situation in Israel has been painted as a war of survival, the Israelis against the Palestinians and, by proxy, their Arab neighbors. That no longer reflects the realities on the ground, where the ability of one side to harm the other is in no way balanced. This "real-estate dispute," as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government calls it, is a microcosm of the wildly unbalanced Israeli-Palestinian situation today.
This "real-estate dispute," as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government calls it, is a microcosm of the wildly unbalanced Israeli-Palestinian situation today.
Because this is about more than just six families. It's about whether Palestinians will be allowed to live in east Jerusalem at all. The New York Times laid out the imbalance clearly: "In East Jerusalem, Jews are allowed to reclaim property that was under Jewish ownership before 1948. But Palestinian families have no legal mechanism to reclaim land they owned in West Jerusalem or anywhere else in Israel."
More from MSNBC Daily
Must reads from Today's list
SHE ISN’T GOING QUIETLY
How Liz Cheney's anti-Trump argument could backfire
Noah Rothman
SUSPICIOUS. VERY SUSPICIOUS.
Ted Cruz thinks Democrats are plotting. Because that's exactly what he'd do.
Hayes Brown
Meanwhile, the Israeli government has thrown up endless roadblocks against new Palestinian construction in the occupied territories. For decades, applications for Israeli permits to build homes on Palestinian-owned land have been rejected with little reason given, making them "nearly impossible for Palestinians to obtain," according to the United Nations. That's not the case for Israelis and Jewish settlers wishing to build in Jerusalem. "Only seven percent of the building permits issued in Jerusalem over the past few years have gone to Palestinian neighborhoods where 40 percent of the city's population lives," the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported in 2015.
Israel-Palestine tensions rise with forced evictions
MAY 7, 202101:57
In the face of these obstructions, Palestinians have built homes on their land anyway, only for the Israeli government to order them torn down. Many who've gotten these eviction notices have opted to raze their homes rather than wait for the Israelis to bill them for the same result. "At least one third of all Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem lack an Israeli-issued building permit, potentially placing over 100,000 residents at risk of displacement," the U.N. warned in 2019.
Many of these evictions, including those in Sheikh Jarrah, are ordered based on petitions from settler organizations that seek to seize the land the homes are built on. These groups have the support of Netanyahu's government, linked as they are to the far-right groups that he needs to retain power.
Video shows rockets being fired toward Jerusalem from Gaza
MAY 10, 202101:11
And so we've seen protests in Sheikh Jarrah. We've seen rocks thrown at Israeli police officers who went to break up the protests. We've seen Israeli police-fired tear gas inside the Al-Aqsa mosque, the third-holiest site in Islam, to clear the building. We've seen people choking while trying to pray during their holy month, apparently in the name of order and stability.
I'm going to pause here to say that yes, it is bad that Hamas responded Monday to the storming of the Al-Aqsa mosque by firing rockets from Gaza. Yes, it is bad that the Palestinian leadership is moribund and corrupt and clinging to power after years of refusing to hold elections. Yes, it is bad that Israeli civilians have been injured in the last week.
A Palestinian's permit to build a home for his family will never be approved without question; an Israeli citizen will never be told to bulldoze his home because it was built on Palestinian land. The system is broken.
But what I'm also saying is that this is not a situation where the two sides are on equal footing. And I don't just mean militarily — as Israeli airstrikes bombard Gaza in response to the rocket attacks — or politically in the Knesset. I mean that under the current system, Israeli and Palestinian civilians aren't granted equal protection under the law. A Palestinian's permit to build a home for his family will never be approved without question; an Israeli citizen will never be told to bulldoze his home because it was built on Palestinian land. The system is broken.
The government can downplay the situation all it wants; it can lean into the idea that the military's actions are necessary in the fight against terrorists. But what the Israelis seem to be unwilling to answer is how this "real-estate" dispute ends. When the state has run out of homes to bulldoze for lack of permits and the settlers fully conquer east Jerusalem, with the "nation-state" law in place and the Supreme Court silent, what happens to the Palestinians who remain? What happens to those non-Israelis who say, "This is my legal home, and I will not go?" When that day comes, how then will Israel justify whatever happens next?
zerorequiem
All Star
If this is a footage of Chinese soldiers assaulting mosque in Xinjiang you'll scream genocide. Israel had also been accused of harvesting organs from dead Palestinians and forcibly sterilizing African refugees.
This is a rabbit hole I'm scared to go down. Organ harvesting just sounds downright diabolical.