Is Triple H so overrated to the point where even Cena has had more classic matches?

[GoddamnyamanProf]

Its all a testament to how good of a heel he is. People ACTUALLY HATE HHH. SMARKS have been suckered into hating him.

Flag on the play, I gotta stop you right there.

You're trying to give credit to dudes for what is basically Xpac heat. Doing shyt that makes people genuinely dislike you in a non-kayfabe sense, being a bad person, putting yourself ahead of what's right for business or just being bad at your job…those are all things someone could be hated for that we shouldn't just applaud them and go "wow what a great heel!"

No, breh. That shyt doesnt count.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Flag on the play, I gotta stop you right there.

You're trying to give credit to dudes for what is basically Xpac heat. Doing shyt that makes people genuinely dislike you in a non-kayfabe sense, being a bad person, putting yourself ahead of what's right for business or just being bad at your job…those are all things someone could be hated for that we shouldn't just applaud them and go "wow what a great heel!"

No, breh. That shyt doesnt count.

Nah thats differebt from xpac heat. Xpac heat is "youre a lame loser and i dont want you on my tv id rather see ANYONE else." Xpac heat is silent. HHH got a very...very tangible negative reaction

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

Nah thats differebt from xpac heat. Xpac heat is "youre a lame loser and i dont want you on my tv id rather see ANYONE else." Xpac heat is silent. HHH got a very...very tangible negative reaction

Man, Xpac Heat is not silence. Silence is the worst thing you can get in pro wrestling but Xpac Heat is not far behind. It's loud and angry displeasure that breaks kayfabe/the 4th wall, not at the character and his kayfabe situation, but disapproval of the performer himself and/or the show itself. Its what Super Cena has been getting from wrestling fans for the last many years that WWE has tried arguing is a good thing.

Obviously Xpac Heat is easier to deal with or spin when its a heel receiving it rather than the guy that's supposed to be face, but its still an important distinction. If a guy is getting hate because he's overpushed or fans dont like the direction of the product or smarks are aware that the guy's a piece of shyt in real life, thats not good heel work. That turns people off and makes them not want to watch, the opposite of good kayfabe heel work.

 

[TrueEpic08]

That extra something is "you dont like hhh". And thats fine but how anyone can say thoses arent A+ matches escapes me.

Before I respond to this, let me back up for a second and correct myself...

JUDGMENT DAY 2000 was when the overrated Iron Man match happened, Backlash had the good match between them. So I screwed up there. Still not a 5 Star Match, but that was good stuff.

Back to the comment at hand...

Yeah, I'm an avowed Hunter hater but I don't let that color my opinion of his matches. I try to look at those as objectively as possible. And in my opinion, he doesn't quite measure up. That's not to say that he hasn't done good things in ring and out of the ring (I think I've said that he's done fine work assembling the roster and reorganizing developmental into something decent from the shytshow that was FCW), just that he hasn't had any five star matches. You know who else hasn't had any five star matches that are actually people that I like? Let's take a looksee:

-Alberto Del Rio
-Dean Ambrose
-Dolph Ziggler
-Kofi Kingston
-Mark Henry
-Sheamus
-Booker T

Just to name a few. As a matter of fact, most of those guys don't have match catalogues that match up to Hunter's. It isn't hate, just an observation of mine.

(Note: Of all the matches to mention, no one mentions Hunter/Benoit at No Mercy 2000? Excellent singles match, my personal favorite of Hunter's career. He was so damn good in that match playing the tweener to face role, and people were actually into it! To this day, I'll never get why Hunter didn't turn full anti-hero/face during that fall. Oh wait, that was when Stephanie got the book, wasn't it? Never mind...)

 

[Primetime]

Man, Xpac Heat is not silence. Silence is the worst thing you can get in pro wrestling but Xpac Heat is not far behind. It's loud and angry displeasure that breaks kayfabe/the 4th wall, not at the character and his kayfabe situation, but disapproval of the performer himself and/or the show itself. Its what Super Cena has been getting from wrestling fans for the last many years that WWE has tried arguing is a good thing.

Obviously Xpac Heat is easier to deal with or spin when its a heel receiving it rather than the guy that's supposed to be face, but its still an important distinction. If a guy is getting hate because he's overpushed or fans dont like the direction of the product or smarks are aware that the guy's a piece of shyt in real life, thats not good heel work. That turns people off and makes them not want to watch, the opposite of good kayfabe heel work.

I agree with this. Take WM 2000 and that fatal fourway. Most paid to see the Rock win that shyt given the endless weeks/months of screw jobs and gang ups by DX/Mcmahon. But what do they do? They end the main event with the same exact predictable gang-up/screw job finish to cost Rock the title yet again, and the end result was the crowd booing and throwing trash into the ring.

Now you can argue that that reaction was great "heel work" but iirc HHH wasn't even conscious when the pin was made and it was more so the mcmahon family celeberating in the center of the ring (after the storyline dictated that they hated each other), further emphasizing they were trying to make it more about that 'shocking' swerve/reunion than anything involving hunter. And real talk, they knew they were going to troll the fan's expectations with that one, which is prob why they felt the need to close the show with stephanie gettin a people's elbow to make people feel like they got their money's worth at least.

I also felt thats what made backlash 2000 so huge. It was basically Rock vs HHH/Vince/shane/patterson/brisco/chairshots/quick ref counts/etc... it didn't even seem as much about the rock/hhh anymore as it was the audience only to swerve them with Austin.

 

[Mic-Nificent]

I'm probably one of the biggest HHH haters on in this forum but some of yall are full on shyt on this one.

HHH best matches are WAY better than Cena's best matches.

Both guys are underrated workers but I think HHH's recent work has made some of yall forget his earlier stuff. HHH has had some great matches with Mick Foley, The Rock, Austin, HBK, Chris Jericho and Benoit.

I will say though that Hunter's worst matches are worse than Cena's worst matches. Also Cena had way better matches with Batista, Orton, and Punk than Hunter did.