Is the whole illegal immigrants thing just crabs in a bucket?

[AngryBaby]

It’s clearly the latter

This was a conversation we could put emphasis on pre-trump. But I'd wager, no wait...its fukking obvious this admin aims to set everyone back that isnt in line with white nationalism , I'd rather not reinforce positions of those that could be lead astray, especially when that isnt nearly as much of a priortiy right now (immigration).

Many of the negroes that would put empahsis on this, are the type that will be more likely to vote for trump..pr convonced to do so, or not vote. Ironically hurting us more than an illegal will.

 

[AngryBaby]

If they don't want to vote, do you think you can shame them into doing it? If they don't vote, their votes don't count. They are not even in the tally numbers.

Also, you state they may be trick into becoming Trump supporters, like we were the ethicity that supported Trump a lot or would ever support him a lot. Let's be clear about this, my ethnicity voted against Trump at the highest rate of all US ethnicities. Also, while you are so worried about Black people on this issue, who did vote against Trump the most, you seem to have no concern about Hispanics who supported Trump at a significantly higher rate than my people did. Yet, you want us to support more of them coming here. That is absolutely amazing, and paradoxical.

So, your attempt to use this administration as a reason we should be supporting illegal immigrations makes no sense, because the last election and polls before the election showed that many of those people would still be supporting this administration if it only harmed people they do not like. My ethnicity, even knowing that policies made by the democrats on this issue of illegal immigration has harmed us, still voted against Trump.

So your position on this issue is unsubstantiated when considering the actual facts and past actions of my people.

Not voting won trump the election...both times. Simple as that. So that majority dem vote we had doesnt really matter when the majority of people in these demos, black and otherwise, decided to sit this one out for gaza, #bothsidism, tangibles, bernie bro shyt, or just not being excited enough. And ironically, allowing a trump win which lead to all of these things that they supposedly cared about... becoming much worse. (Look at gaza).

And I never exactly said "support more of them coming in" I simply stated they arent hurting our economy, and doing a mindless extraction will hurt the economy more than help us, which will affect us negatively. This wasnt about "kindness", or "support". It's simply a reality. They help the economy, major deportation wont help it. Or us. Nor is it the primary focus we should be having for the reasons I listed above.

 

[Uachet]

The problem is capitalism. It functions with cheap labor and exploitation of the working class. There was a report done during the Trump administration that showed that uneducated immigrants was like a plus 35000 to the economy whereas an uneducated American was a negative 72000(my numbers might be off) due to immigrants paying into a system and receiving little to no benefits whereas it was the opposite for the native person. Take away the immigrant than those benefits quickly dry up.

The economic system needs to change first and foremost, and then we can look at the smaller things

Capitalism is part of the problem, but it is not the entire problem. It does forment greed, by using the natural greed of many humans to get them to drive the economy. Still, Capitalism also drives innovation and opens possibilties for people who can come up with new means of creating goods and services. Just like in any economic system, their will be boons and banes attached to it.

The only true means of moving beyond these problems is moving into a post-scarcity economic system. We are far from that though, so we live with what we have and have to compete in the market we operate in. As long as resources, labor, and position slots are limited, there will always be these sort of problems. Can't say communism or socialism are solutions, because Western socalists societies are subsidized by the US when it comes to their national defense, whiel non-western socialist and communist socieities must accept capitalism into their economy (China) or fail economically like the USSR and its satilite states did.

So far, when it comes to which economic system has been the most effective, Capitalism has been it.

"Which Economic System is Best and Why? Yates said that most economists favor a market-based economy(capitalism) where the price system determines the outcomes of all market transactions. “In a market-based system, every player enters voluntarily in the transactions if they agree on the price,” she said."

What Are the 3 Basic Types of Economies?​

There are three main types of economic systems known as economies: a command economy, a market economy and a mixed economy. An understanding of the differences in types of economies can help you decide how to deep dive into a potential career working in the field of economics:

• Command Economy – A command economy is an economy in which the government controls all economic activity and transactions. A country with a communist government is an example of a command economy.
  
  
• Market Economy – A market economy is free of all government control. “The economic outcomes are determined by the market forces and the so called ‘invisible hand,’ to use a term coined by philosopher Adam Smith,” Yates said. The invisible hand is a metaphor commonly-used among economists to describe how market forces work together.
  
  
• Mixed Economy – This is a hybrid between the command and market economic systems. A mixed economy can be more command or more mixed depending on the government in question. “Most economies in the world are mixed economies, including the United States,” Yates said.

Types of Economies and Economics

Your future. Your terms. See why thousands choose SNHU.

www.snhu.edu

Edit: Changed No to New. So typo fix.

 

[Uachet]

Not voting won trump the election...both times. Simple as that. So that majority dem vote we had doesnt really matter when the majority of people in these demos, black and otherwise, decided to sit this one out for gaza, #bothsidism, tangibles, bernie bro shyt, or just not being excited enough. And ironically, allowing a trump win which lead to all of these things that they supposedly cared about... becoming much worse. (Look at gaza).

And I never exactly said "support more of them coming in" I simply stated they arent hurting our economy, and doing a mindless extraction will hurt the economy more than help us, which will affect us negatively. This wasnt about "kindness", or "support". It's simply a reality. They help the economy, major deportation wont help it. Or us. Nor is it the primary focus we should be having for the reasons I listed above.

If Black people voted at 100% for Kamala, Trump would have still won. See Black people are mainly in certain areas in the country. We do not cover all areas, and therefor we are not everywhere electors can be gathered. So no, trying to blame the loss of Kamala on Black people not voting enough will not fly with me.

Edit: Remember she had 226 Electors compared to his 312.

I stated they are harming Black Americans, and that has been my point from the onset of this discussion. Each time you made an argument about this issue, you tried to make it seem like in some way or another it was Black Americans fault, or it was a class issue and not a Black issue. Remember that? So your point has always came across as you do not care that it is harming Black Americans. That frankly, you could not care any less about that.

Last, just because some Black Americans recognize the data that shows illegal immigration harms our people,. does not mean we do not recognize Trump as an existential threat. Both can be true at the same time, both can be expressed. We don't have to accept in racist illegals, just because we are fighting against a racist President. In fact, the prudent thing would be to try as best we can to hinder more racists from coming in, because one thing they all can agree on is their hatred for Black Americans.

 

[TEH]

Ahhhhhhhh here we areeeee! Now that you've soundly been decimated in a conversation the insults begin

This you?





I'm not part of your argument. I didn't care enough to respond to this thread, but this makes it seem like you look like this..

 

[TELL ME YA CHEESIN FAM?]

Yes, because I am concerned about their impact on my on ethnicity. Why should my main concern be how well the country does with their added input, when that input comes as a detriment to my own people along with an added sprinkle of overwhelming racism?

I have made clear since I first came here, that my order of importance is Family/Friends, People (Black Americans), other Black Ethnicities, all others. So where does the benefit to the overall US come in on my list, well look at that, it is after Black Americans.

So you are telling me the guy in your avatar is not an immigrant?

 

[fifth column]

I have been all over the world as a former Naval Officer. Try again, but I am pretty sure now you are trolling.

Edit: I also know what the name you are using means. So tell me, who are you fighting against?

I’m fighting against stupidity, btw don’t try to punch above the message board, this is escapism

 

[2 Up 2 Down]

Capitalism is part of the problem, but it is not the entire problem. It does forment greed, by using the natural greed of many humans to get them to drive the economy. Still, Capitalism also drives innovation and opens possibilties for people who can come up with no means of creating goods and services. Just like in any economic system, their will be boons and banes attached to it.

The only true means of moving beyond these problems is moving into a post-scarcity economic system. We are far from that though, so we live with what we have and have to compete in the market we operate in. As long as resources, labor, and position slots are limited, there will always be these sort of problems. Can't say communism or socialism are solutions, because Western socalists societies are subsidized by the US when it comes to their national defense, whiel non-western socialist and communist socieities must accept capitalism into their economy (China) or fail economically like the USSR and its satilite states did.

So far, when it comes to which economic system has been the most effective, Capitalism has been it.

"Which Economic System is Best and Why? Yates said that most economists favor a market-based economy(capitalism) where the price system determines the outcomes of all market transactions. “In a market-based system, every player enters voluntarily in the transactions if they agree on the price,” she said."

What Are the 3 Basic Types of Economies?​

There are three main types of economic systems known as economies: a command economy, a market economy and a mixed economy. An understanding of the differences in types of economies can help you decide how to deep dive into a potential career working in the field of economics:

• Command Economy – A command economy is an economy in which the government controls all economic activity and transactions. A country with a communist government is an example of a command economy.
  
  
• Market Economy – A market economy is free of all government control. “The economic outcomes are determined by the market forces and the so called ‘invisible hand,’ to use a term coined by philosopher Adam Smith,” Yates said. The invisible hand is a metaphor commonly-used among economists to describe how market forces work together.
  
  
• Mixed Economy – This is a hybrid between the command and market economic systems. A mixed economy can be more command or more mixed depending on the government in question. “Most economies in the world are mixed economies, including the United States,” Yates said.

Capitalism is the problem.

The daddy of capitalism, Adam Smith wrote in Wealth of Nations (book 5, Chapter 1, part 2):

"Wherever there is great property there is great inequality. For one very rich man there must be at least five hundred poor, and the affluence of the few supposes the indigence of the many. The affluence of the rich excites the indignation of the poor, who are often both driven by want, and prompted by envy, to invade his possessions. It is only under the shelter of the civil magistrate that the owner of that valuable property, which is acquired by the labour of many years, or perhaps of many successive generations, can sleep a single night in security."

And

“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”

 

[Uachet]

So you are telling me the guy in your avatar is not an immigrant?

No, I am Black American. That picture is of me. Yes, I look like all sorts of different Black ethnicities. Everywhere I go, someone asks where I am from who is non-Black American. What I have never experienced though, is other Black Americans asking me that question. My DNA shows I have roots in this country from since the early 1700s.

 

[Uachet]

Capitalism is the problem.

The daddy of capitalism, Adam Smith wrote in Wealth of Nations (book 5, Chapter 1, part 2):

"Wherever there is great property there is great inequality. For one very rich man there must be at least five hundred poor, and the affluence of the few supposes the indigence of the many. The affluence of the rich excites the indignation of the poor, who are often both driven by want, and prompted by envy, to invade his possessions. It is only under the shelter of the civil magistrate that the owner of that valuable property, which is acquired by the labour of many years, or perhaps of many successive generations, can sleep a single night in security."

And

“Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.”

I know about Adam Smith, I am an Economist myself. Also, you missed something in my explaination that I gave you. The US is not a pure Market Economy (Capitalism), but mixed economy. If we were a pure economy, we would not have Social Security, Welfare, Subsidies, etc. So, what Adam Smith states about a pure market economy does not hold for the US.

So Adam Smith is not the person who is the author of the US's most recent form of capitalism. It is instead:

John Maynard Keynes​

"During the Great Depression of the 1930s, the advanced capitalist economies suffered widespread unemployment. In his 1936 General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money, British economist John Maynard Keynes argued that capitalism struggles to recover from slowdowns in investment because a capitalist economy can remain indefinitely in equilibrium with high unemployment and no growth. Keynesian economics challenged the notion that laissez-faire capitalist economies could operate well on their own without state intervention to promote aggregate demand and fight high unemployment and deflation of the sort seen during the 1930s. He postulated that government intervention (by cutting taxes and increasing government spending) was needed to pull the economy out of the recession (see “What Is Keynesian Economics?”). These actions sought to temper the boom and bust of the business cycle and to help capitalism recover following the Great Depression. Keynes never intended to replace the market-based economy with a different one; he asserted only that periodic government intervention was necessary."

So the architech of Fiscal Policy

What Is Capitalism?

Free markets may not be perfect but they are probably the best way to organize an economy

www.imf.org

And

Milton Friedman

"But one school of economic thought, called monetarism, maintains that the money supply (the total amount of money in an economy) is the chief determinant of current dollar GDP in the short run and the price level over longer periods. Monetary policy, one of the tools governments have to affect the overall performance of the economy, uses instruments such as interest rates to adjust the amount of money in the economy. Monetarists believe that the objectives of monetary policy are best met by targeting the growth rate of the money supply. Monetarism gained prominence in the 1970s—bringing down inflation in the United States and United Kingdom—and greatly influenced the U.S. central bank’s decision to stimulate the economy during the global recession of 2007–09."

The architech of Monetary Policy.

What Is Monetarism? - Back to Basics - Finance & Development, March 2014

 

[StoneColdSteveAustin]

The rise in crime specifically associated with the recent influx of illegal immigrants in NYC. Did you not see that viral story of the woman set on fire on the train? Go on and guess who did that.

You Base your political view on viral Stories

 

[ALonelyDad]

When the economy and other things get tough, it is a guarantee that the public will look down on the lesser and try to shift blame to them rather than the corporations and the rich. And the rich have no problem fanning those flames cause it takes the blame off them.

Is there a fair conversation to have on immigration? Sure. But its far from a main problem.

 

[Uachet]

When the economy and other things get tough, it is a guarantee that the public will look down on the lesser and try to shift blame to them rather than the corporations and the rich. And the rich have no problem fanning those flames cause it takes the blame off them.

Is there a fair conversation to have on immigration? Sure. But its far from a main problem.

Here is the problem. No one said it is a main problem, nor did anyone say it was the most important problem. What people are saying is that it is a problem, and I am personally saying it has been a problem discussed in certain circles of the Black community for far longer than Trump has been in power.

So, while Trump and his cronies are the main problem at the moment, that does not negate the data that has shown that illegal immigration is a problem for a large portion of the Black community economically and socially.

I also do not support this idea that we must come to the rescue for a group that has shown over and over again their disdain for us. At the end of the day, every group that is non-Black American view Black Americans as the lesser in some form or another. They also will pursue the interests of their ethnicity over ours, so I will do the same for my people.

 

[TELL ME YA CHEESIN FAM?]

No, I am Black American. That picture is of me. Yes, I look like all sorts of different Black ethnicities. Everywhere I go, someone asks where I am from who is non-Black American. What I have never experienced though, is other Black Americans asking me that question. My DNA shows I have roots in this country from since the early 1700s.

Actually your username made me assume you were trying to rep some other ethnicity at first

 

[Uachet]

Actually your username made me assume you were trying to rep some other ethnicity at first

My user name is an ancient KMT(Egypt) goddess who was the defender of lower KMT(Egypt). So she defended KMT from invaders from Asia and Europe, since lower KMT(Egypt) is the northern portion of Egypt. Just a bit of mythological knowledge given.

I chose the name, because I knew no one else would be using it.