Is Odell The Best WR In the Game Right Now?

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

this is what you said about the rules: 'I'm not going to get into the data of pass/rush ratio season-by-season change, nor the change of laws - because not only should you be privy to the fact that shyt really hasn't changed'....but you didnt say they havent changed?..lol ok...

By saying that "shyt really hasn't changed" is me saying that the change in rules hasn't increased the production of elite receivers or given them a notable advantage over their predecessors. What's so hard to comprehend?

Isaac Bruce put up 1700 yards in 1995
Rob Moore put up 1500 yards in 1997
Michael Irvin put up 1500 yards in 1991
Torry **** put up 1700 yards in 2003

Elite talent at the receiver position for the last 20-30 years have put up similar #s to the elite talent that the receivers of today are putting up. Would those players put up those type of numbers if they played with Matt Cassel or Nick Foles on a heavy-run team today?

doesnt bode well in reality? lol.....the reason i say their numbers would increase is because the play calling leans towards more passing and the rules lean toward the offense even more now, they would get more opportunities at passes, yards after catches, etc...

They really wouldn't. The majority of those players had 100+ receptions - that number isn't going to drastically increase because they play in a 'pass-happy era'. Those past players are getting a similar amount of reps and receptions as the top receivers of today are -

Look at the top receivers and how many receptions they had during the 90s/early 00s in comparison to RIGHT NOW.

i dont make sense?....lol that's what i'm saying about you and whatever stance you're taking.....i stated: the pic doesnt tell the whole story and also you shouldnt compare eras....now, why would i be talking about a different era in relation to ab, jj, and cj? i wasnt, but you decided i was and ran with it....just like you ran with that moss and rice are part of obj's era.....also, you're harping on 'era' and ignoring everything else like 'era' is the reason i said he's putting up numbers, when i did no such thing....

Again you're not making any sense. I never accused you of these things as being the sole reason. Let's go back to the very beginning -

he's nice, but naw, he's not the best....best in the league right now would be AB....i'd say he's in the top 5 along with brandon marshall (people sleep on him), dez, and julio....

also, i see people like to post that pic with his stats....while it looks nice, it's misleading....we are in an arena football league era in the league...by that i mean, it's geared towards passing: from the rules to how offenses are running, it's all about the pass....so of course his numbers gonna look good, especially compared to other wrs in eras that didnt pass as much/wasnt geared towards the pass....

I'm not going to say this is fundamentally wrong, but it's not really true either. Moss and Rice had better numbers than both Brown and Johnson - so it can't be really about the era ODB plays in. You'll also see that Moss and Rice had more receptions than both Brown and Johnson (Moss had two less than Julio and Rice 18 less) - your assertion that they played in eras which weren't geared more towards passing is speaking as if they didn't have similar opportunities that Julio, Brown and Johnson have - when the receptions say otherwise.

First two seasons of career:

Julio - 112 receptions
Moss - 110 receptions
Rice - 94 receptions
Johnson - 93 receptions
Brown - 82 receptions
ODB - 176 receptions

Like I keep saying - it's less to do with the era ODB plays in and more to do with the situation he's in. If the elite receivers had more opportunities today to put up yards - you'd see a huge margin in receptions from today, 00s and the 90s. But you don't. It's different to QBs who have more opportunities to pass today -

Because it's reliant upon a smaller amount of factors as they're more in control of what happens. A receiver isn't.

 

[Lord Beasley]

stop with the gotdamn stats. he's not better than AB. Khrist!!!

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

stop with the gotdamn stats. he's not better than AB. Khrist!!!

I don't think he's the best in the league either. That would be AB, nevertheless he's still an elite talent (whose talent would translate in any era) who has benefitted from being in a great position - rather than era he plays in.

Next time read before you say dumb shyt @Lord Beasley. This argument isn't even about who's the best in the league anyway.

 

[Lord Beasley]

Next time read before you say dumb shyt @Lord Beasley. This argument isn't even about who's the best in the league anyway.

im not reading your long ass post. if thats your stance then i agree with you.

but fukk reading all that shyt just because. fukk reading a 4 pg letter for absolutely no reason

 

[lutha]

By saying that "shyt really hasn't changed" is me saying that the change in rules hasn't increased the production of elite receivers or given them a notable advantage over their predecessors. What's so hard to comprehend?

Isaac Bruce put up 1700 yards in 1995
Rob Moore put up 1500 yards in 1997
Michael Irvin put up 1500 yards in 1991
Torry **** put up 1700 yards in 2003

Elite talent at the receiver position for the last 20-30 years have put up similar #s to the elite talent that the receivers of today are putting up. Would those players put up those type of numbers if they played with Matt Cassel or Nick Foles on a heavy-run team today?

They really wouldn't. The majority of those players had 100+ receptions - that number isn't going to drastically increase because they play in a 'pass-happy era'. Those past players are getting a similar amount of reps and receptions as the top receivers of today are -

Look at the top receivers and how many receptions they had during the 90s/early 00s in comparison to RIGHT NOW.

Again you're not making any sense. I never accused you of these things as being the sole reason. Let's go back to the very beginning -

I'm not going to say this is fundamentally wrong, but it's not really true either. Moss and Rice had better numbers than both Brown and Johnson - so it can't be really about the era ODB plays in. You'll also see that Moss and Rice had more receptions than both Brown and Johnson (Moss had two less than Julio and Rice 18 less) - your assertion that they played in eras which weren't geared more towards passing is speaking as if they didn't have similar opportunities that Julio, Brown and Johnson have - when the receptions say otherwise.

First two seasons of career:

Julio - 112 receptions
Moss - 110 receptions
Rice - 94 receptions
Johnson - 93 receptions
Brown - 82 receptions
ODB - 176 receptions

Like I keep saying - it's less to do with the era ODB plays in and more to do with the situation he's in. If the elite receivers had more opportunities today to put up yards - you'd see a huge margin in receptions from today, 00s and the 90s. But you don't. It's different to QBs who have more opportunities to pass today -

Because it's reliant upon a smaller amount of factors as they're more in control of what happens. A receiver isn't.

what you not factoring in with the rule changes is how players react to them....by that i mean: yea, the number of catches might not go up dramatically, but the yac might cause of the more space wrs get from defenders....

you're only looking at the top and judging it as a whole......you shouldnt do that, look at the avgs for wrs period....i'm sure the number of catches and yards have increased over the years due to rule chances and playcalling, like your last graph showed with increase in pass attempts...

...you know, i'll stop there cause we talking in hypothetical's now...there is no way to prove what wr from era a would do in era b...plus we getting the thread off track.....agree to disagree.....it's been fun, and i've enjoyed the civil back/forth, have a good one...

to get the thread back on track: we both agree ab is the best right now, and that obj is a bad boy...

 

[Ace2306]

I know its cool to hate on Matty Ice, but lets not act like Eli aint a turnover machine and all those rough years he had. Winning two rings helps but this is still a team game so you can't give him all the credit. When you look at individual numbers and stats they are very comparable thats why it is arguable. Nobody considers any of these 3 QB elite, yet they are not bottom of the bucket scrubs.

Big Ben ain't elite?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

what you not factoring in with the rule changes is how players react to them....by that i mean: yea, the number of catches might not go up dramatically, but the yac might cause of the more space wrs get from defenders....

WRs don't get more space today. Receivers in the 90s would have a harder time playing in this current climate as defenses are better and DBs/LBs are faster, stronger and more skilled with the ever-complex offensive [passing] systems.

you're only looking at the top and judging it as a whole......you shouldnt do that, look at the avgs for wrs period....i'm sure the number of catches and yards have increased over the years due to rule chances and playcalling, like your last graph showed with increase in pass attempts...

No you don't look at the averages for WRs period. This is where you're getting it fukked up. The extra pass attempts/passing yards is attributed to the fact that the yards are more generally distributed - rather than the gap widening at the top (from season to season). It isn't a case of the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

1995 - 23 receivers had 1000+ yards
1997 - 21 receivers had 1000+ yards
1998 - 21 receivers had 1000+ yards

2012 - 20 receivers had 1000+ yards
2013 - 24 receivers had 1000+ yards
2014 - 23 receivers had 1000+ yards

Look at the year-by-year receiving yards leaders -

The best receivers get a similar amount of receptions to put up a similar amount of yards, regardless of the year.

...you know, i'll stop there cause we talking in hypothetical's now...there is no way to prove what wr from era a would do in era b...plus we getting the thread off track.....agree to disagree.....it's been fun, and i've enjoyed the civil back/forth, have a good one...

to get the thread back on track: we both agree ab is the best right now, and that obj is a bad boy...

Fair enough.

 

[Danie84]

As an unbiased GMEN, I gotta admit he's tied with AntoNino, PAUSE:

 

[Heretic]

Brehs.... Do you want to see what happened to the last person that tried to tell AB than ODB was better that him?

spartan kicked that nikka shkrate to bolivia

 

[DonKnock]

AB and ODB are both playing the top defenses in their conference this weekend


It seems fair that whoever is better will shine this weekend instead of against trash defenses.

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That Bengal D was top ranked too tho

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No one wanted to touch this post



Who laughin now?!

 

[Scorsese]

No one wanted to touch this post



Who laughin now?!

What Happened today tho?

Season on the line. Was almost invisible against the bum ass depleted Ravens.