Is Nelson Mandela a sellout?

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no he is not...he wasn't about that black everything business he was only about freedom from apartheid.

Mugabe took all the businesses/land and gave it to blacks....Zimbabwe is now a sh!thole.

It's more nuanced than that. Mugabe didn't just give all the businesses and land to the Black people. He gave them to his cronies who really, for the most part, weren't interested in them - except for the immediate money they could siphon as quickly as possible. Yes, those cronies were Black, too, but the difference lies is in the type of people that the stolen properties and businesses went to and to whom it could have gone.

Anyhoo, Mandela did the right thing. It's a damn shame the fools coming along (some are already in power) are going to ruin it all when he passes away.
 

Imyremeshaw

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I actually don't think this is a stupid question. Mandela promised nationalisation of mines, banks and minerals. That belief had formed the core doctrine of the ANC and was enshrined in a document known as The Freedom Charter. I have only been to South Africa once, to most tourist stops and from what I have heard not much has changed. Blacks or coloreds still make up over 85% of the country and are disenfranchised. And anybody thats been to S. Africa can confirm that, but on the same note politics dont move so swiftly and only so much can be achieved. I believe Mandela did the best he could but ultimately had to compromise for the "supposed" greater good, so I give him a pass.
 
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Chris B. has already answered this post, but I will add by saying that it makes no sense to remove the people who built the infrastructure and have had experience doing it for years (white people), with people who are under educated, due to poor standard of education in Bantu Universities created by the Apartheid regime....

When you look at the history of African countries post-independence, then it's easy to see that Mandela did a fantastic thing when he became president...

The smoothest transition is for the next generation of better educated young blacks (and whites who accept South Africa as their country) to come up the ladder and replace the old and dying white ruling class...
 

Mr Uncle Leroy

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Chris B. has already answered this post, but I will add by saying that it makes no sense to remove the people who built the infrastructure and have had experience doing it for years (white people), with people who are under educated, due to poor standard of education in Bantu Universities created by the Apartheid regime....

When you look at the history of African countries post-independence, then it's easy to see that Mandela did a fantastic thing when he became president...

The smoothest transition is for the next generation of better educated young blacks (and whites who accept South Africa as their country) to come up the ladder and replace the old and dying white ruling class...

LOL c00ns

Should you be mistreated forever? forever ever? divide and conquer but you c00ns are weak thats why an outsider can come to your land and take over. the minds and the hearts of people are damaged.

Those people running business dont have the best education, but anyone can learn.

Why do you think there was a revolt? The people got tired of being mistreated. Take over the land, take over the businesses and run it better and more profitable. Its their land and they being subjugated, what type of ideology is that. Such ideology of you get there first to take advantage of locals is not going to last.

White have tried to practice their separate but equal lies, and its been vetoed.

How do you think Chris.B got his job? 60 years ago, he couldnt, unless he worked a black business. Thats just how serious discrimination was. Now, he cant move up laterally easily.

Learn the craft. Master the craft. Take over.

This isnt nepotism but you cannot mistreats people forever.
 
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LOL c00ns
Should you be mistreated forever? forever ever? divide and conquer but you c00ns are weak thats why an outsider can come to your land and take over. the minds and the hearts of people are damaged.
Those people running business dont have the best education, but anyone can learn.
Why do you think there was a revolt? The people got tired of being mistreated. Take over the land, take over the businesses and run it better and more profitable. Its their land and they being subjugated, what type of ideology is that. Such ideology of you get there first to take advantage of locals is not going to last.
White have tried to practice their separate but equal lies, and its been vetoed.
How do you think Chris.B got his job? 60 years ago, he couldnt, unless he worked a black business. Thats just how serious discrimination was. Now, he cant move up laterally easily.
Learn the craft. Master the craft. Take over.
This isnt nepotism but you cannot mistreats people forever.

My opinion comes from the fact that, I have lived in Africa...

1) Everybody will get mistreated, and the fact is, your own people will treat you worse than the other...

White people built the South African infrastructure, and they have been running the country for years, you can't replace them with inexperienced and under educated black people...

At least when White people rob you, they make sure that you can have access to education, health care, paved roads, and etc...

When Black people rob you, they leave you with NOTHING...All the money gets tied in some off-shore Swiss account that the country will NEVER see again...

Case in point, Mobutu...

2) Black people have been politically "running" South Africa for almost 20 years now, and the only reason the country is not completely down the toilet is because of the STRONG infrastructure the the White man built...

- Poverty is ridiculous...You have a small minority of black people caking, and the majority are in worse condition than Apartheid...

- To get a descent education, you have to pay top money...The government schools are laughable...

- Personal example, my family lived in Hillbrow (Downtown Johannesburg), and that place was a FANTASTIC view to behold, black people took over, and WOW! watch a documentary by Louis Theroux about crime in Johannesburg, and look at Hillbrow now...You can access that Doc on Youtube...

- Crime is ridiculous in South Africa now, and the police are too incompetent to deal with it...It's not rare to see houses in South Africa with burglar bars on the windows, and electrical fences...

When I came to Canada, I was in COMPLETE cultural shock to see that people could leave their doors open, car windows down, no fence between your house and your neighbors, no burglar bars around your windows...

The thing is, White people have ALREADY gone through all this bullsh_t that Africa is going through (tribal wars, poor health care and education, poverty, disease epidemics and etc.), and White history documents the steps and actions that were taking to bring Western Europe to current world class standards of living...

There is NO good reason for the people of Africa to keep suffering when the blueprint to success can be Googled...

Africa should be developing at a crazy rate with all the abundance of natural resources, technological and scientific knowledge we have today, but that's not really happening...

White people are to blame for the past problems, but Black people are solely responsible for their inability to move forward and beyond history...
 

emoney

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def not

but I think prison did break him a bit.

I think he let go of the anti-white sentiment whiles he was locked up and was witnessing apartheid enter it's final days. Being anti-white is an emotional stance anyways...a more prevalent issue is the class divide (rich vs poor, haves vs havenots, government vs the people, masters vs the masses)
 

IrishBrother

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Unconfirmed reports suggest Mr Mandela’s vital organs are no longer fully functioning. Its not looking good. I hope his final hours are as comfortable as can be.
 

Mr Uncle Leroy

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My opinion comes from the fact that, I have lived in Africa...

1) Everybody will get mistreated, and the fact is, your own people will treat you worse than the other...

White people built the South African infrastructure, and they have been running the country for years, you can't replace them with inexperienced and under educated black people...

At least when White people rob you, they make sure that you can have access to education, health care, paved roads, and etc...

When Black people rob you, they leave you with NOTHING...All the money gets tied in some off-shore Swiss account that the country will NEVER see again...

Case in point, Mobutu...

2) Black people have been politically "running" South Africa for almost 20 years now, and the only reason the country is not completely down the toilet is because of the STRONG infrastructure the the White man built...

- Poverty is ridiculous...You have a small minority of black people caking, and the majority are in worse condition than Apartheid...

- To get a descent education, you have to pay top money...The government schools are laughable...

- Personal example, my family lived in Hillbrow (Downtown Johannesburg), and that place was a FANTASTIC view to behold, black people took over, and WOW! watch a documentary by Louis Theroux about crime in Johannesburg, and look at Hillbrow now...You can access that Doc on Youtube...

- Crime is ridiculous in South Africa now, and the police are too incompetent to deal with it...It's not rare to see houses in South Africa with burglar bars on the windows, and electrical fences...

When I came to Canada, I was in COMPLETE cultural shock to see that people could leave their doors open, car windows down, no fence between your house and your neighbors, no burglar bars around your windows...

The thing is, White people have ALREADY gone through all this bullsh_t that Africa is going through (tribal wars, poor health care and education, poverty, disease epidemics and etc.), and White history documents the steps and actions that were taking to bring Western Europe to current world class standards of living...

There is NO good reason for the people of Africa to keep suffering when the blueprint to success can be Googled...

Africa should be developing at a crazy rate with all the abundance of natural resources, technological and scientific knowledge we have today, but that's not really happening...

White people are to blame for the past problems, but Black people are solely responsible for their inability to move forward and beyond history...

Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you dont know.

I have interacted with all kinds of people including Africans.

Some Africans are the biggest c00ns and often times they don't know their hidden history.

White people misaligned blacks in south Africa and white despite "building" south Africa
no longer control the government, also there is black governmental decree for all companies to become desegregated.
black south African government are also looking for black businesses to do businesses with.

No, when white rob you, then don't give you access to anything until you fight for it.
Whites create for themselves. Until black civil rights and African civil rights leaders, said no, what whites make is everyone, not one
group. that's how the separate but equal. white will take care of their own, but not you.

Poor foundation on house, does not lead to a solid building. Blacks have don't better without apartheid. Apartheid was demonic.
If you were African during Apartheid you would not have made any progress in Apartheid unless you fought. Which is why the African fought.

Blacks need to make solid free schools. Start their curriculum, band with other African countries. The sad thing is Colonial Europeans
want to take advantage of Africa and make it more like Europe. Sadly in some areas they conquered the locals or enslaved them.

If there was financial equity, there is no need for survival tactics. You cannot isolate yourself and mistreat people and think it wont get back to
you. Blacks from good socio economic backgrounds and neighborhood, don't steal from themselves.

No all areas in South Africa are paranoid with crime.

Also Canada, Toronto Canada is very diverse but they don't overly hold immigrants back. There is bias in the city, but it is not blatant.
If there was blatant apartheid in Canada, there would be more crime.

Black Moor took Europe out of the dark ages.

Europe was known for its filth, barbaric-ness, world I and II killed 70 million Europeans. Thats how they also treat themselves

Europe civility from Black Moor and Egypt and some evolution. Europe tries to re write its history and soley self sufficient, which is untrue.

Africa and c00n presidents keeps looking west because they think, they west has it, but the west had kept most African countries in debt.

Africa has to do forself and be progressive, get better PR, there are many nice places in Africa you would never see because the west media wont show you.
 

Dada

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I think a lot of people out of respect keep certain opinions to themselves but have their opinions. Like some of the ..more than suspect things Dr. King said (that we don't talk about). We focus on the positive, and generally look the other way. :patrice:

It's uncomfortable to discuss to begin with and it looks like he's about to become an ancestor, so I don't think this conversation is going to be what it could be, considering.
 
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I realise the timing of the thread could've been better but the sellout accusations were in the SA press recently and I was interested in the Coli's opinion

Can't say I'm shocked by the responses

Sad how massa got you shook, "we can't do shyt right without him" :sadcam:

Those citing Zimbabwe may want to investigate further the land reform they put in place following independence with the Lancaster House agreement and how the west undermined it for almost 20 years. Since deciding enough is enough and taking their land back they're now incompetent? :stopitslime:

I won't share my opinions out of respect for the living legend Mandela and pray for his full recovery :tu:
 
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