Is Kawhi Leonard right now better than peak LeBron ever was?

[Rigby.]

Wish I could neg OP twice

 

[Rigby.]

Kawhi eating some nikkas that let Donovan fukking Mitchell average better than prime Jordan numbers, and yall got the gall to make a thread like this

 

[Swagnificent]

So you're changing your mind based off of ONE game??

Did you not read the last sentence? He needs to keep up the way he looked in Game 1 versus Denver and win another ring. If he does that then I have no choice but to reconsider.

 

[twan83]

Kawhi wouldn't beat the KD warriors either. If Bron faced the Warriors team Kawhi faced, he would have beat them on both occasions.

We saw how shyt was looking the few minutes KD played

This narrative with Kawhi and cuz kd played like its game over needs to stop
Every time Kawhi plays warriors with KD he causes more hell and problems than any other player cuz of his 2 way abilities it’s been shown and proven not gonna go as far and say beat them but that raps team would be warriors hardest match up and could beat them
Basing off kd scoring clip for 11 mins they still wasn’t blow out
I can easily say Kawhi with the spurs in 17 with less better players was blowing out same team with KD by 20 points and then he got hurt let alone during reg season wins or losses he has been match up nightmare for warriors

Kawhi’s great but its not close. Kawhi’s highest scoring game is 45 pts. Lebron has 13 50pt games and scoring is the only thing Kawhi is really great at on the offensive end. Lebron has like 7 game winners in the playoffs, Kawhi has 1 and an extremely lucky 1 at that.

I love watching his game but there’s plenty of peaks Kawhi hasnt gotten to yet. I don’t know if he can with the way his body breaks down but we’ll see.

as far as him dropping 50 and shyt Most of his career he was on spurs pop dOnT be letting his players be dropping 50 if they can he will take them out of game if it isn’t close for rest of game
Kawhi can get 50 and it’s obvious he either doesn’t get chance too or doesn’t care for it as long as he wins been plenty of times he could of and just sat out and chilled instead

 

[Swagnificent]

2013 LeBron is in the GOAT tier. Kawhi is nice now but y’all doing too much. Peak Bron was finishing around the rim like Shaq, elite athleticism, was a legit 3 point shooter and could have won a DPOY in 2012/2013.

Isn't 2013 the year Boris Diaw was locking him up one on one in the Finals and he needed Ray Allen to save his legacy?

Bron's peak was 2009 BTW. And that's the 4th best season I have ever witnessed live from a player after 2003 Kobe, 2006 Kobe, and 2000 Shaq.

 

[Juggalo Fred]

Kawhi wouldn't beat the KD warriors either. If Bron faced the Warriors team Kawhi faced, he would have beat them on both occasions.

We saw how shyt was looking the few minutes KD played

Actually i remember when Zaza injured Kawhi on the Spurs when SAS was up big time

I was at a hotel watching that game before a Twiztid concert that evening

 

[Jekyll]

This narrative with Kawhi and cuz kd played like its game over needs to stop
Every time Kawhi plays warriors with KD he causes more hell and problems than any other player cuz of his 2 way abilities it’s been shown and proven not gonna go as far and say beat them but that raps team would be warriors hardest match up and could beat them
Basing off kd scoring clip for 11 mins they still wasn’t blow out
I can easily say Kawhi with the spurs in 17 with less better players was blowing out same team with KD by 20 points and then he got hurt let alone during reg season wins or losses he has been match up nightmare for warriors



as far as him dropping 50 and shyt Most of his career he was on spurs pop dOnT be letting his players be dropping 50 if they can he will take them out of game if it isn’t close for rest of game
Kawhi can get 50 and it’s obvious he either doesn’t get chance too or doesn’t care for it as long as he wins been plenty of times he could of and just sat out and chilled instead

I don’t think he had the scoring ability to drop 50 when he was on the Spurs. But it doesn’t matter what anybody thinks. The only thing that matters is actual results.

As of now this guy couldn’t even play back to backs this season. Whatever he accomplishes will have that asterisk of him basically only playing like a half or 2/3rds of the season as long as that’s the case.

 

[NaijaProdigy Redux]

 

[ALonelyDad]

Absolutely. Kawhi is a bred to win - 2 way killer. Prime Bron was getting worked by 21 yr Kawhi. What u think this Kawhi would do to him. Imagine putting a 21 yr old - on this Kawhi in the finals. He's literally gonna fukkin abuse him and force a double team

Lebron in 2014 finals

28.2 ppg, 57% fg, 51% 3pt fg, 7.8 rebs, 4 assists, 2 stls

Kawhi had the weakest finals MVP outside of Iggy lmao, I am pretty sure Danny Green was gonna win it too if he didn't stink it up in the last game

 

[murksiderock]

kawhi is a strange player when you look at his trajectory. no one, not even buford, i think could predict that he would become the league's best player. sure, buford thought possible all star potential but ok we'll keep it at definite valuable major cog on a championship team a la robert horry or young sam cassell... but this??? lol no way

hell if you check my posting history (so i don't get brand new on yall lol) during the '17-'18 season i said the league's best player was really players like it was in '88 with magic, bird, jordan... my pick was lebron, durant, chef curry with no mention of kawhi

and then his tenure as a raptor began.. and i knew it.. you know it when you see it... league's best player then and as it stands right now (until luka the gawd takes over in a spell). do i take today's kawhi over prime lebron? not just yes, fukk yes. i know kawhi doesn't get sphincteritis and scared of the big moment & can simply put it on the line and beat you with an iso jumper off the dribble in closing seconds in win-the-game-for-me clutch moments. and this is all besides kawhi having a better mid range, mid level attack, foot work, and ball handling skills (what up @Gravity and @murksiderock , i ain't forget our convo lol. wayyy better ball handler). i mean i pick kawhi so easy without blinking i wonder how anyone else who watches the game could actually disagree with me b

The question is, is Kawhi right now a better player than LeBron ever was at his peak? The answer is no...

I do think I can now concede Kawhi having a better handle...

Here's the thing, if this is the very best version of Kawhi we've seen to date, most people would agree on that, right? Then we can start with this version of Kawhi being a diminished defensive player compared to peak LeBron---->this peak Kawhi gets blown by, j'd on, and caught outta position more often than Peak LeBron, without offering the level of versatility Peak LeBron offered in terms of controlling a defense and being able to defend anyone on the floor...

Let's not lose sight of the fact that he's still an above average defender, I'm not saying he isn't. At this point though, I think its clear while Kawhi is at his best as an overall basketball player, he was at his best as a defender 3+ years ago when he was a lesser overall basketball player...

Offensively, his heat check, blackout mode just isn't on that level. Peak Kawhi isn't afraid of the moment but I recall a lesser version of him struggling mightily in a series against another GOAT in '16, in which other guys would be called choking or disappearing for, but Kawhi got away with it. Again, specifically define what peak Kawhi is...

He isn't as great a decision maker vs double teams as LeBron, its not even comparable. Peak Kawhi is an excellent isolation guy, i don't think its exactly 1:1 with Peak LeBron because that LeBron smoked nikkas in iso if he felt like it. Kawhi doesn't read the floor, transition as well, attack the basket as well, etc...

Peak Kawhi is a historically relevant player, I'm not tripping if someone prefers what he offers. He ain't "better" than Peak LeBron though, the suggestion that he is, is obviously biased and incomplete. You can watch the two at the very best they could offer and see the gap...

 

[Peruvian Connect]

Yes! Kawhi has won a championship as the the guy and the lone superstar. LeBron James has not. LeBron is 2-11 in the finals without another superstar by his side

 

[murksiderock]

Absolutely. Kawhi is a bred to win - 2 way killer. Prime Bron was getting worked by 21 yr Kawhi. What u think this Kawhi would do to him. Imagine putting a 21 yr old - on this Kawhi in the finals. He's literally gonna fukkin abuse him and force a double team

Kawhis game right now is more skilled and more polished than Lebrons game has ever been and its not arguable. Lebron at his peak was way more of a freak of nature tho n is much better at stat padding. It's really about what u prefer tho

100% agree. Kawhi is better


Peak Lebron was Dwyane Wade's sidekick

Gotdamn this is some bad posting...

if younger Bron couldn’t beat Orlando when his team quit on him how would he have fared any better when Toronto quit on Cell vs Philly?

Don't do that...

The equivalent age version of this Kawhi would be Year 9 ('12 LeBron) or age 29 (Year 10 LeBron). This Kawhi ain’t fukking with that version of LeBron, you gotta do some severe mental gymnastics to plug your boy...

And that '09 ECF was an All-Time performance by LeBron in Year 6, one of several greater than any one series we've ever seen from Kawhi. For the record, Year 6 Kawhi was '17, and he not winning that series with that Cleveland team and most likely isn't even sniffing the ECF with them...

This rewriting like Kawhi could win with just any and every thing no matter what you put around him is so easy to disprove, I have no clue why yall nikkas keep trying it lol...

I would have agreed with this before the last game versus Denver. Kawhi looked better in Game 1 versus the Nuggets than I had ever seen him before. People been trying to compare him to Jordan and Kobe the last year or so. But in Game 1 versus Denver he looked like he was Kobe out there on the court. Obviously not as fluid but way more fluid than ever before.

If Kawhi keeps playing that way and wins another ring I might have to entertain him versus Prime LeBron as a legit debate.

If Kawhi wins it all this year it still doesn't put him with Peak LeBron, but if you're going that far, you gonna have to entertain Peak Kawhi as better than a whole lot more guys than just LeBron...

 

[murksiderock]

More skilled how ?

Nobody can answer this effectively because on Remedial Coli, "skilled" simply means scoring, nothing else, just actions that contribute to scoring. This board's consistent downplaying of LeBron, easily one of the GOAT All-Time scorers, factor into this "Kawhi more skilled" thing too...

Kawhi has really become overrated my God

The man doesn't even take over games that much

Unbelievable, he getting all kinda clearance right now, like the below quotes:

he has no weaknesses.

Lmfao...

 

[murksiderock]

So you're changing your mind based off of ONE game??

You arent surprised, are you?

So a prime Bron and last years Raptors wouldn’t beat a injury riddled Warriors in the Finals?

The Lebron slander on this forum is ridiculous

Kawhi wouldn't beat the KD warriors either. If Bron faced the Warriors team Kawhi faced, he would have beat them on both occasions.

We saw how shyt was looking the few minutes KD played

Lol what? He went 6 games with Jr and Tristan as his best players against a full GSW roster. He is absolutely beating GS minus KD and Klay with that Raptors squad.

100 on all these, unbelievable the lengths these dudes go to...

I’ll take Kawhi. Even with load management he’s more consistent. Don’t have to worry about him quitting when it gets tough. Don’t have to worry about the team standing around looking stupid while he dribbles for twenty seconds or post players being force out to the three. Don’t have to worry about having to get him multiple superstar teammates for him to be successful. All I gotta give Kawhi is an all star teammate (Pascal, George) and a few other guys who can score and we’ll get a couple rings Kawhi is more poised/talented at his age than LeBron was. When LeBron was 29 in 2014, he got ran out of Miami by San Antonio and they lost because San Antonio packed the paint and dared LeBron to shoot. People forgot about that but it was sad. Ten year veteran being dared to shoot and still couldn’t knock sh*t down. Kawhi would’ve been cooking if they gave him all that space.

That wasn't why Miami lost in '14, youre thinking of the wrong series...

 

[THE MACHINE]

Isn't 2013 the year Boris Diaw was locking him up one on one in the Finals and he needed Ray Allen to save his legacy?

Bron's peak was 2009 BTW. And that's the 4th best season I have ever witnessed live from a player after 2003 Kobe, 2006 Kobe, and 2000 Shaq.

I still don't see why people think Heat Bron was better than 08-10 Bron. He picked his spots a bit too often in Miami.