Jordan>>LeFrozen
It was written in the Bible
Kawhi was 28 last year. Lebron at 28 was 2012 lebron right? He could have won with The raptors
Is Kawhi Leonard right now better than peak LeBron ever was?
- Thread starter Maluma
- Start date
Jordan>>LeFrozen
It was written in the Bible
Lebron was the best player on that Heat team majority of those years, if not all of those years. The 2011 finals makes the conversation amusing but Lebron was still the best player on that team
murksiderock
Superstar
The elephant in the room surrounding Kawhi talk is never addressed directly---->its the polarization Basketball Culture has with LeBron...
Many of us love him, and many of us hate him, and within that, The Culture revolves around him. Everybody who is great is compared to him, The Culture been trying to crown somebody, anybody, to replace him for a half-decade. The Culture has also begun searching hard for the next LeBron for at least the last 4 years, similar to how the search for "the next Jordan" began later in Mike's career----->is it Simmons? Lonzo? Luka? Giannis? Zion? All of these guys have gotten that "new LeBron" label placed on them in the last half-decade...
I have a feeling that the actual guy that becomes a historical peer to LeBron isnt yet known to us, but is probably on the way in the next few years. And when we see him, it'll be pretty clear that he's different from everyone else and can only be compared to players before his time...
As it relates to Kawhi, he's part of the first group, the list of players (Steph, Durant, Giannis, etc) The Culture been trying to elevate over LeBron. The issue I think we as a culture have is we don't even realize we're validating LeBron's greatness by doing so---->he's the gold standard, he's the bar for his era, he's the measuring stick these guys are compared to, not the other way around. And all of these guys can stand on their own merits, but when we do this thing like the sports shows and this thread is doing where you say a guy is "better" than LeBron, especially of its better than he's ever been, that's not something that can be supported by just having a smooth jumper or an exciting blackout mode. That's a task that includes many markers of greatness and addressing Kawhi specifically, there is too many missing to jump out the window and say he's better than LeBron EVER was...
But cats do it anyway, which is fine, but again I see that more as an affirmation of LeBron than the negatives cats think it is...
The other part of it is, if we're saying he is better than LeBron is right now, which I'm on record as agreeing with, we are still comparing him to a guy 8 years older in basketball years. He's supposed to be better than LeBron is today, but we champion the fukk out of it as if saying '20 Kawhi is better than '20 LeBron is some bold, groundbreaking take...
The whole Kawhi thing, as it is with pretty much all the other great players of this era, is really about LeBron. That'll be the case until the day LeBron leaves for good...
Many of us love him, and many of us hate him, and within that, The Culture revolves around him. Everybody who is great is compared to him, The Culture been trying to crown somebody, anybody, to replace him for a half-decade. The Culture has also begun searching hard for the next LeBron for at least the last 4 years, similar to how the search for "the next Jordan" began later in Mike's career----->is it Simmons? Lonzo? Luka? Giannis? Zion? All of these guys have gotten that "new LeBron" label placed on them in the last half-decade...
I have a feeling that the actual guy that becomes a historical peer to LeBron isnt yet known to us, but is probably on the way in the next few years. And when we see him, it'll be pretty clear that he's different from everyone else and can only be compared to players before his time...
As it relates to Kawhi, he's part of the first group, the list of players (Steph, Durant, Giannis, etc) The Culture been trying to elevate over LeBron. The issue I think we as a culture have is we don't even realize we're validating LeBron's greatness by doing so---->he's the gold standard, he's the bar for his era, he's the measuring stick these guys are compared to, not the other way around. And all of these guys can stand on their own merits, but when we do this thing like the sports shows and this thread is doing where you say a guy is "better" than LeBron, especially of its better than he's ever been, that's not something that can be supported by just having a smooth jumper or an exciting blackout mode. That's a task that includes many markers of greatness and addressing Kawhi specifically, there is too many missing to jump out the window and say he's better than LeBron EVER was...
But cats do it anyway, which is fine, but again I see that more as an affirmation of LeBron than the negatives cats think it is...
The other part of it is, if we're saying he is better than LeBron is right now, which I'm on record as agreeing with, we are still comparing him to a guy 8 years older in basketball years. He's supposed to be better than LeBron is today, but we champion the fukk out of it as if saying '20 Kawhi is better than '20 LeBron is some bold, groundbreaking take...
The whole Kawhi thing, as it is with pretty much all the other great players of this era, is really about LeBron. That'll be the case until the day LeBron leaves for good...
murksiderock
Superstar
There will never be an agreement on what defines "Peak LeBron" and can't really blame anyone, because he was so dominant at the highest level you could reach, for so long. You could pick anytime between 2008-2018 and make a legitimate argument that was the best version of LeBron, and wouldn't really be wrong either...
The obvious answer to me is Kawhi isn’t better than any version of LeBron in that decade...
The best thing Kawhi can do this postseason is start legitimizing a historical argument for himself vs Bron and other greats. Two hot postseason runs don't do it ('17 and '19), not when thats all we have to go on and we've seen guys take it to a different degree than we've seen Kawhi push it. If he finishes this off, even if he doesn't win the title, this would be his third postseason playing at an All-Time level. How many more of these does he have in him? Three hot runs aint putting him on the level cats want him on...
If kawhi wins this year he brings a title to the lowly Clips and wins back 2 back titles on different teams in his first season. that's leaving a mark.
and saying he went to a loaded team in Toronto is disingenuous you know he was the only superstar on his team. Is Siakim out there taking over games for the Raps right now? Pascal is averaging the same PPG in the playoffs right now as he did last season. In the regular season Pascal got 5 more shots per game than when he played with Kawhi but only scored 4 more points. Last season he shot 54%, this season he shot 45%. Part of the reason he broke out last year is because of Kawhi's presence.
4/17 laat night
BlackAchilles
Veteran
If LeBron had Kawhis stat line from last night, y'all would call him Jamal Mashburn w/ his own agency group 
Kawhi has ALWAYS been surrounded by elite talent during his career and it wasn't until the last few that he had to be the absolute best player on the team. Bron has had that role from day one and him at his peak was basically like having a cheat code on the court on both ends. We talk about the Raptors like they weren't and still are a damn good team with or without him when they had Pascal getting nearly 20 a game in the playoffs last season and Lowry was scoring in double digits too. Not to mention them having a good combo of Serge Gasol and cats like FVF and Danny Green contributing too. Bron could have won a title with them too especially against a depleted Warrios team.
LeVraiPapi
Redemption is Coming
STeph changed the culture of the NBA. To me, Steph is more of an ATG than Kawhi because he made the whole league adjust to his team and his game. No doubt about it.
Kawhi is the most overrated NBA player I have ever seen. Nobody has ever gone that far without some standards. The Dude has no ceiling or standard at all. He does well he gets the credit. He loses, coach and teammates
Hes a better all around scorer thats it
He was a literal role player for that first ring, and that finals MVP could've gone to just about anyone on that Spurs team. Hell, the Spurs still would've won that series if he didn't play.2x champ
2× fmvp
2× dpoy
I don't think he's an ATG but i can see why someone would say it
Ozymandeas
Veteran
malbaker86
Gators
could have but it didn't...it went to HIM.
Lakerman0834
Veteran
KL has had a lot of breaks in his career. Traded to one of the best org draft night in the league who were title contenders and could bring him slowly. Then traded to a number 1 seed. His one year in east playoffs it was a lebron james less East and then went to face a depleted GS team. Now he joined a stacked clippers team that he forced get a second superstar. Hes a great player but hes also had the benefit of being in extremely good situations and has never really had to face the game to game grind other superstars have just to make it to playoffs. So far his mark is 2019 and starting load management trend.