Is Joe Biden lowering expectations for black students by promoting 2 year colleges over 4 year ones?

Anerdyblackguy

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Biden’s wrong. He should help more kids get into 4-year, not 2-year colleges.

Northern Virginia Community College’s Annandale campus. (Matt McClain/The Washington Post)
imrs.php

By
Jay Mathews
Columnist
July 11, 2021|Updated today at 5:09 p.m. EDT


In my long search for educators with the deepest understanding of what works for students from low-income families, few have impressed me as much as Eric Wolf Welch of Justice High School in Fairfax County, Va.



He is a veteran teacher who manages the Advancement Via Individual Determination (AVID) program at that school. Sixty-six percent of Justice High students are impoverished, the highest percentage in Northern Virginia. AVID is one of the nation’s most effective efforts to raise the level of instruction for low-income middle and high school students.

So I was startled to discover that Welch does not support President Biden’s plan to provide billions of dollars in funding to community colleges to make them tuition free.


The idea on the surface sounds logical,” Welch told me. “Community colleges serve thousands, often students from low-income backgrounds like my students, and they can be an avenue toward attaining a higher education degree and the benefits that come with that. But what Biden’s plan does is lower expectations for millions of students in poverty across the nation. Why should our goal for low-income students be community college? The goal for all students should be college.”

Maybe tuition-free community college comes at too high a price

Biden campaigned for no tuition at both two-year community colleges and four-year colleges, but his focus in the plan he unveiled in April is on the two-year variety. He wants about $109 billion more for them compared with $80 billion more for Pell Grants that could be used to reduce tuition at four-year schools.


Welch wants the emphasis to be instead on increasing Pell Grants and other ways to get students into four-year schools. “Making community colleges free while not increasing aid to pay for four-year colleges will intensify the socioeconomic divide in America,” he said. “Low-income students will be relegated to attend community colleges, while more affluent families will send their children directly to four-year colleges.”

The four-year college experience will be for the haves, while the community college experience will be for the have-nots,” he said. “Some may say this is already the case. But we should not exacerbate it with a government incentive for low-income students to choose to go to community colleges.”

Biden’s “American Families Plan” acknowledges that Pell Grants have failed to give students like Welch’s enough support. “Over the last 50 years, the value of Pell Grants has plummeted,” it says. “The maximum grant went from covering nearly 80 percent of the cost of a four-year college degree to under 30 percent — leading millions of low-income students to take out debt to finance their education.”


Community college has been a vital part of American culture for nearly a century. Both of my parents attended Long Beach (Calif.) City College in the 1930s. My mother went on to get a bachelor’s degree at UCLA. My father failed to get that degree but found work as a technical writer for a federal lab on the strength his Army service in World War II. Much of my brother’s career was as a community college staffer.


Community colleges are a key part of our education system, but Welch points out they have not done much for families who lack the resources of middle-class Mathewses. “Look at the three-year graduation rates of major community college systems in the D.C. area,” Welch said. “Northern Virginia Community College [NOVA] is 26 percent. Montgomery College is 21 percent. Prince George’s Community College is 11 percent.”

Data on the nation’s community colleges is not encouraging

Middle-class families don’t think about that much, he said, because community colleges are rarely part of their plans. Barack and Michelle Obama’s children did not go to community colleges. “I’m sure the thought never crossed their minds,” Welch said. “Nor did Biden’s children and grandchildren. This is what makes Biden’s plan rather condescending and why it is wrong. It institutionalizes class divisions and does not promote equal opportunity.”


One of my best friends in high school went to our local community college, where he was elected student body president, on his way to becoming a physician. But even then he was considered extremely abnormal in our crowd.


Welch cites the overall graduation rates of the four-year schools that have done well for his students: 85 percent at Virginia Tech, 82 percent at James Madison, 73 percent at George Mason, 90 percent at Colgate, 96 percent at Duke.

“The data is overwhelmingly clear that four-year colleges allow students to pursue careers that lead to much higher lifelong incomes,” he said.

There is an additional problem with community colleges. They often do a poor job guiding students to courses that will get them transfers to four-year schools. I once suggested solving that problem before eliminating two-year college tuition, which now averages about $3,400 a year. But Welch’s emphasis on getting more students directly into four-year schools makes more sense.


Putting all that money into community colleges, he said, “will make my job harder as I can already hear my students saying, ‘I’m going to NOVA because it’s free,’ putting aside any aspirations of attending a four-year college.”

Free college is a simple, powerful campaign slogan. But people like Welch who work every day with students from non-college backgrounds know it can be a harmful distraction. I hope such experts in our high schools will have more influence on the Biden administration than they have had up to now.
 

ExodusNirvana

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Me personally I think everyone should try to better themselves via some form of higher learning ( :lolbron:) but I do get that "college is not for everyone"

The two year gives people the opportunity to see if it's for them and allows them to consider whether or not they want to continue these academic pursuits :yeshrug:

What needs to be emphasized though, is certain majors and curriculums need to be straight up with what is required for the major, EARLY ON so that people get a good understanding about what they're getting into
 
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What do you expect when poverty pimping is beneficial for politicians/celebs/clout chasers...imagine the progress if folks maintained the same standards in their "advocacy" as they do in their personal/professional lives
 

JetFueledThoughts

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Making 2 year colleges free is far more of a realistic goal than to get 4 year universities to be free.

Also, what’s stopping any student from taking advantage of the free 2 years of CC then transferring to a university to get their degree? Thousands of students do that every year and it was seen as a cheat code when I was in college if you were willing to forego the college experience your first 2 years.

It’s a good start / stepping stone
 

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It is 100% designed to funnel people to 4yr schools so they dpnt lose money. Terrible article.
Making 2 year colleges free is far more of a realistic goal than to get 4 year universities to be free.

Also, what’s stopping any student from taking advantage of the free 2 years of CC then transferring to a university to get their degree? Thousands of students do that every year and it was seen as a cheat code when I was in college if you were willing to forego the college experience your first 2 years.

It’s a good start / stepping stone


Article is another example of people trying to promote their agendas under the cloud of "speaking up for Black people's interests" It's insulting.
 
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Making 2 year colleges free is far more of a realistic goal than to get 4 year universities to be free.

Also, what’s stopping any student from taking advantage of the free 2 years of CC then transferring to a university to get their degree? Thousands of students do that every year and it was seen as a cheat code when I was in college if you were willing to forego the college experience your first 2 years.

It’s a good start / stepping stone
what's stopping them is an expensive 4 year tuition. Only so many credits can be transfered
For profit colleges are the problem and making CC free isn't a solution, but a feel good talking point to avoid making enemies with high ed elites
 

JetFueledThoughts

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what's stopping them is an expensive 4 year tuition. Only so many credits can be transfered
For profit colleges are the problem and making CC free isn't a solution, but a feel good talking point to avoid making enemies with high ed elites


A lot of the progress and innovation that 4 year universities can make within their science and medicine departments happen largely because they’re a for-profit institution.

I don’t get your point on the ‘expensive 4 year tuition’ when the whole point of CC is that you only go to the university for your final 2 years? Also keep in mind many states / universities offer specific grants and aid for CC transfers if you meet certain criteria.

And let’s be intellectually honest here; the heavy majority of CC credits can be transferred to your average 4 year University, I’d guess over 80% are transferable. In many states certain CCs are even seen as borderline ‘feeder schools’ to whatever large 4 year Universities are in the state.
 
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A lot of the progress and innovation that 4 year universities can make within their science and medicine departments happen largely because they’re a for-profit institution.

I don’t get your point on the ‘expensive 4 year tuition’ when the whole point of CC is that you only go to the university for your final 2 years? Also keep in mind many states / universities offer specific grants and aid for CC transfers if you meet certain criteria.

And let’s be intellectually honest here; the heavy majority of CC credits can be transferred to your average 4 year University, I’d guess over 80% are transferable. In many states certain CCs are even seen as borderline ‘feeder schools’ to whatever large 4 year Universities are in the state.
to be intellectually honest, can't just give a percentage without specifying the type of degree

for-profits depend on gov grants, former students, and various philanthropist donations....the tuition usually increases every year but the equipment isn't cutting edge to justify it

for-profits should be cost according to both their fund raising channels and the average household income
 

JetFueledThoughts

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to be intellectually honest, can't just give a percentage without specifying the type of degree

for-profits depend on gov grants, former students, and various philanthropist donations....the tuition usually increases every year but the equipment isn't cutting edge to justify it

for-profits should be cost according to both their fund raising channels and the average household income

Of course what credits can be transferred depends on the degree you are trying to get, but that doesn’t negate the fact that many credits can be transferred to most all universities. And that avenue can now be free

But since we aren’t throwing a Hail Mary to make all college free or the cost of a haircut, your response is to downplay the solution that will make higher education more attainable for a large % of the population, in favor of propping up an unrealistic solution that won’t make it anywhere when it comes to drawing up real legislation. Got it.

You’re right, cost of many institutions are inflating year over year more than the value of the actual degree is. But turning your nose up at free community college isn’t a solution to fixing anything about that. It’s an entirely separate problem with separate solutions.
 
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Of course what credits can be transferred depends on the degree you are trying to get, but that doesn’t negate the fact that many credits can be transferred to most all universities. And that avenue can now be free

But since we aren’t throwing a Hail Mary to make all college free or the cost of a haircut, your response is to downplay the solution that will make higher education more attainable for a large % of the population, in favor of propping up an unrealistic solution that won’t make it anywhere when it comes to drawing up real legislation. Got it.

You’re right, cost of many institutions are inflating year over year more than the value of the actual degree is. But turning your nose up at free community college isn’t a solution to fixing anything about that. It’s an entirely separate problem with separate solutions.
It's not turning my nose up or downplaying it, it's about not getting drunk off it so the problem can be ignored further

CC isn't breaking folks pockets because it's limited in resources/goals, while having tuition assistance programs, so making it free is a positive but not a game changer

The reason for no "real legislation" is because of folks like you getting geeked off half-azz efforts and then providing no pressure on politicians to go further with it

Had the same standards Biden has for his family and you for yours...quality education...been applied to this effort, then free CC would be apart of a legislative movement to force higher ed change. One where having to transfer from CC to a for-profit would be unnecessary


Also, like charter schools to public schools, CC isn't suppose to be competition/substitute/path way to a 4 year, it's suppose to compliment it and provide education options
 

JetFueledThoughts

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It's not turning my nose up or downplaying it, it's about not getting drunk off it so the problem can be ignored further

CC isn't breaking folks pockets because it's limited in resources/goals, while having tuition assistance programs, so making it free is a positive but not a game changer

The reason for no "real legislation" is because of folks like you getting geeked off half-azz efforts and then providing no pressure on politicians to go further with it

Had the same standards Biden has for his family and you for yours...quality education...been applied to this effort, then free CC would be apart of a legislative movement to force higher ed change. One where having to transfer from CC to a for-profit would be unnecessary


Also, like charter schools to public schools, CC isn't suppose to be competition/substitute/path way to a 4 year, it's suppose to compliment it and provide education options


1. I’m not gassed off this or drunk off this :what: I said in my first post this is a good start / stepping stone.


2. I’ve dated a girl who wanted to get her degree in her mid-20s and paid for it all herself, started at the local CC. I think you’re underestimating the degree of difficulty on it as well as what a help it would have been to her and thousands of other Americans if it were free. Not to mention, there are plenty of jobs / careers where you only need that 2 year Associates Degree to get into the door. For what it’s worth, she didn’t get it. The cost of 4 semesters became burdensome abouthalfway through and she had to make a decision.

3. I respect where you’re coming from, but your understanding of passing legislation seems to be that we can pressure and bully the president into getting certain things done, not a real understanding of what the other side of the aisle (or even his own party) will pass, let alone entertain. I’m not holding my breath on the Free College Executive Order, but you can if you’d like, it’s your oxygen.


All in all I respect your thoughts but I don’t think you should underplay this. Like I said, it’s a good start towards affordable higher education, not the end solution
 
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1. I’m not gassed off this or drunk off this :what: I said in my first post this is a good start / stepping stone.


2. I’ve dated a girl who wanted to get her degree in her mid-20s and paid for it all herself, started at the local CC. I think you’re underestimating the degree of difficulty on it as well as what a help it would have been to her and thousands of other Americans if it were free. Not to mention, there are plenty of jobs / careers where you only need that 2 year Associates Degree to get into the door. For what it’s worth, she didn’t get it. The cost of 4 semesters became burdensome abouthalfway through and she had to make a decision.
3. I respect where you’re coming from, but your understanding of passing legislation seems to be that we can pressure and bully the president into getting certain things done, not a real understanding of what the other side of the aisle (or even his own party) will pass, let alone entertain. I’m not holding my breath on the Free College Executive Order, but you can if you’d like, it’s your oxygen.
All in all I respect your thoughts but I don’t think you should underplay this. Like I said, it’s a good start towards affordable higher education, not the end solution
Ok my bad, I take back accusing you of getting drunk of this

The various expedited covid based legislation reveals that the slow bureaucratic nature of law makers is a tool used, not a reality

My point revolves around ensuring quality higher education is free/affordable
4year via CC became a thing as the tuition increased. If I needed some education for a job promotion or like you referenced to get a career start, then CC was the solution, not a 4year

If folks are struggling to pay for CC, then they more likely finna struggle to pay the rest of the 4year due to the tuition difference...the only blockade are the politicians/their shills/lobbyist
 
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