Inside Kenya's Women-Only Umoja Village

[Guvnor]

Who paid for this doc?
Who decided what the scope of the investigation would be?
Who then edited this doc given the scope covered?

Broadly, in their own words on their site

Broadly is a website and digital video channel devoted to representing the multiplicity of women's experiences. Through original reporting and documentary film, we provide a sustained focus on the issues that matter most to women. As one YouTube commenter succinctly put it: "So basicly [sic] vice but excluding anything of relevance that includes men."

Their basically a company owned by Vice(the same people who own Noisey) and they show woman in different cultures as well as their story. I found out about them by way of their work they did on Haitian voodoo that was very interesting but scary if you know what I mean lol. One of the videos for this project was even shot with this cool 360 hd technology. It was shared on the Noisey channel which is how I found out about it and sponsored by Vaseline lol. That seemed random but I couldn't hate on it as it focused on voodoo as a healing for the people of haiti.

1. This village doesn't exist because a bunch of African men mistreated women so they went off and made a village.

That is part of the issue but they also have child marriages and treat women as they are property. They even resort to beating women and take their money that they get from selling jewelry. That is part of why they made the village though the raping of the women by British folks was a "final straw" moment so to speak. Especially the leader who mentioned how she was beat by men for speaking up on issues females were facing and her man didn't speak up for her nor support her.

2. This village exist because the founders where raped by foreign soldiers and they were left by their families because it's "taboo" for a women to be raped.

It's not only the rape thing though, again the rape is a small par of a bigger problem which is their treatment of women and their past traditions. The rape happened and the men of that culture were also violent and heavily controlling of their women.

3. Within the context of the village existing women who have issues such ass you described move to the village.
(Men and women are going to have their fall outs... If the village didn't exist the women would ether stay, go back to their birth families village, move to a diff community, or something else)

Western journalist(feminist) leave their focus at #3 and neglect the wider context because it fits a narrative they are trying to sell.

Also...

Men don't control(perform) "the whole female circumcision thing"


I was trying to find a doc to illustrate what I mean about the practical application of the practice from the women who do it ...but it's no longer on youtube
If you ever find this episode below I suggest watching it. The midwives who perform the operation tell you what & why they do what they do. Men aren't involved it's controlled by women

Tribal Wives
Maasai/Tanzaniai
Tribal Wives,Series 1 Episode 5 of 6


​

My general possition is essentially mentioned below.
​

Sure women carry it out but it's done for many reasons. The ladies who do the cutting are paid to do it so their is economic reasons, but even for the family it's done for economic reasons. They do it because they view the young daughters like property or a tool for potential profit that they could send to marry off to a man in exchange for a bride's pay or dowry or whatever they call it. Essentially the family gives away their daughter who is viewed as a women once the cutting occurs, although she is still a child in some cases, and the man gives the family animals that they could sell for profit in exchange for the girl. If the women aren't cut then the men don't see them as marriage material and what not, this is due to the traditions. Women in this sort of postion are seen as outcast and if they are married their family will get much less in exchange for them.

So with this said, the families sometimes really count on their daughters marriage because they are poor and really could use the animals to exchange for money, causing them to force their daughters into cutting ceremonies knowing it's harmful, or even if they don't want to do it they force their daughters into it for fear of being outcast. I looked it up and even see they are some cases where a father wouldn't want his daughter to do it because he is educated on the matter, but when he is not around and a grandparent or other family member is caring for the child would get the ritual done against the fathers wishes.

In my opinion though, it needs to stop because women can get sick from it due to bad infections and some even die because they bleed out profusely. Their are no real benefits of it either now that we know what we do about the human body.

 

[Guvnor]

i'm black, and some of the stuff really starting to scare me. We have black men and women on YouTube celebrating the death of each other or promoting abortion for male or female children, it's sick

Indeed, I wish I could post some of the videes but I don't want to take us off topic.

Some of these women in bwgtow movement are mothers and they speak on going to get a "white daddy" and use silly generalizations when speaking on black males in these videos. I asked one of them why they don't want their child's father in their life and how could their son learn to be a man without a male role model. She replied how black men period are no good and her son doesn't need that kind of influence. She told me she is gonna teach her son to be a man. I then asked her has she ever been a man, and then we went arguing back and forth and I was trying to show her how subscribing to those beliefs is exactly what white people want her to do. I tried to explain how black men aren't perfect but no body is and how we have to work on ourselves both black men and women but the only way to fix these issues is to have open conversations about it and not "going your own way". However, the conversation was a waste of time and went no where fast.

Mwgtow isn't any better either with the men acting like Tommy Sotomayer and speaking down on women. It's borderline homo and I don't get it!

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

Broadly, in their own words on their site


Their basically a company owned by Vice(the same people who own Noisey) and they show woman in different cultures as well as their story. I found out about them by way of their work they did on Haitian voodoo that was very interesting but scary if you know what I mean lol. One of the videos for this project was even shot with this cool 360 hd technology. It was shared on the Noisey channel which is how I found out about it and sponsored by Vaseline lol. That seemed random but I couldn't hate on it as it focused on voodoo as a healing for the people of haiti.

Bruh on top of that investigative reporting

That is part of the issue but they also have child marriages and treat women as they are property. They even resort to beating women and take their money that they get from selling jewelry. That is part of why they made the village though the raping of the women by British folks was a "final straw" moment so to speak. Especially the leader who mentioned how she was beat by men for speaking up on issues females were facing and her man didn't speak up for her nor support her.

It's not only the rape thing though, again the rape is a small par of a bigger problem which is their treatment of women and their past traditions. The rape happened and the men of that culture were also violent and heavily controlling of their women.

I never said those things didn't happen

3. Within the context of the village existing women who have issues such ass you described move to the village.
(Men and women are going to have their fall outs... If the village didn't exist the women would ether stay, go back to their birth families village, move to a diff community, or something else)

Western journalist(feminist) leave their focus at #3 and neglect the wider context because it fits a narrative they are trying to sell.

Within the context of human relations all manner of things will happen. Everything from basic arguments to straight up murder and all point inbetween. Again I assert that the village didn't popup because of the everyday range of issues between men & women in the community it popped up because of the fall out from rape from foreign soldiers ...with that said it is certainly sustained by the issues in the community(along with foreign entities who use/prop them up for ideological reasons) Because there is a lessened need to resolve issues by traditional mediation.
(note: I'm not talking about circumcision mediation, because that is already seen as the norm)

A good example would be the video I pointed to earlier

Tribal Wives
Maasai/Tanzaniai
Tribal Wives,Series 1 Episode 5 of 6
​

In it a Maasai woman who are closely related culturally(Nilotic) to the Samburu and speak the same "maa" based Nilotic language. Is kicked out of her home by her brother when it is learned that the cattle are under threat and need to be corralled in the compound.

How did she handle the situation without an Umoja village to turn to?

She went to go stay with a brother in another village.

Now if the option to go to an Umoja village was there she might have taken that and ended up in a doc like this talking about "I don't want to get married". The remedies built into society are overlooked when you have a village like this. Which isn't so much of a problem on it's own until you start get this "I don't want to get married" talk. Even that isn't so much of a problem as an individual choice until it starts to get ideologized & promoted as a "way of life". Throw in outside forces with massive resources and you have a potential fire on your hands.

Sure women carry it out but it's done for many reasons. The ladies who do the cutting are paid to do it so their is economic reasons, but even for the family it's done for economic reasons. They do it because they view the young daughters like property or a tool for potential profit that they could send to marry off to a man in exchange for a bride's pay or dowry or whatever they call it. Essentially the family gives away their daughter who is viewed as a women once the cutting occurs, although she is still a child in some cases, and the man gives the family animals that they could sell for profit in exchange for the girl. If the women aren't cut then the men don't see them as marriage material and what not, this is due to the traditions. Women in this sort of postion are seen as outcast and if they are married their family will get much less in exchange for them.

So with this said, the families sometimes really count on their daughters marriage because they are poor and really could use the animals to exchange for money, causing them to force their daughters into cutting ceremonies knowing it's harmful, or even if they don't want to do it they force their daughters into it for fear of being outcast. I looked it up and even see they are some cases where a father wouldn't want his daughter to do it because he is educated on the matter, but when he is not around and a grandparent or other family member is caring for the child would get the ritual done against the fathers wishes.

In my opinion though, it needs to stop because women can get sick from it due to bad infections and some even die because they bleed out profusely. Their are no real benefits of it either now that we know what we do about the human body.

I agree 100% which is why I said men don't control this institution this is an issue of the over all community. To try and narrow it down to men is a lie which is why I posted the video

My general possition is essentially mentioned below.
​

To paraphrase Dr. Ani
I'm not here to say the rightness or the wrongness in relation to if the women themselves or the society overall wants to alter, remove, keep the practice I'm just trying to do my part in putting it in it's proper perspective.

I've read academic articles, watched lectures, read books, watched documentaries, talked to people on the ground(mostly over the internet), etc. concerning all manner of topics in relation to African peoples and my position is constantly in flux given new information. This topic included, and one that pops out was a bbc doc about women who would get on a plane with their daughters and return to their native society to have their daughters go through traditional womanhood ceremonies because that is part of the culture. In the process those girls would be "cut" in addition to other training. When I see these docs (I've watched a couple on this village[actually already seen this doc before] and read papers) and they start talking about men circumcising women I already know what angle they are trying to pull.

It's much deeper than a men vs women issue that feminist try and spin it as. That's all I'm saying ...ok well not all I'm saying but you get it

 

[Winged one]

Indeed, I wish I could post some of the videes but I don't want to take us off topic.

Some of these women in bwgtow movement are mothers and they speak on going to get a "white daddy" and use silly generalizations when speaking on black males in these videos. I asked one of them why they don't want their child's father in their life and how could their son learn to be a man without a male role model. She replied how black men period are no good and her son doesn't need that kind of influence. She told me she is gonna teach her son to be a man. I then asked her has she ever been a man, and then we went arguing back and forth and I was trying to show her how subscribing to those beliefs is exactly what white people want her to do. I tried to explain how black men aren't perfect but no body is and how we have to work on ourselves both black men and women but the only way to fix these issues is to have open conversations about it and not "going your own way". However, the conversation was a waste of time and went no where fast.

Mwgtow isn't any better either with the men acting like Tommy Sotomayer and speaking down on women. It's borderline homo and I don't get it!

What gets is the they're both the same. Tommy has two daughters and they have sons. One of the ones with sons have sad on a number of occasions that black boys should be aborted. And that same one defended the murder of a 17 month old boy. She has a son

 

[Guvnor]

Bruh on top of that investigative reporting

LOL

I never said those things didn't happen

Understood bro, my bad.

Within the context of human relations all manner of things will happen. Everything from basic arguments to straight up murder and all point inbetween. Again I assert that the village didn't popup because of the everyday range of issues between men & women in the community it popped up because of the fall out from rape from foreign soldiers ...with that said it is certainly sustained by the issues in the community(along with foreign entities who use/prop them up for ideological reasons) Because there is a lessened need to resolve issues by traditional mediation.
(note: I'm not talking about circumcision mediation, because that is already seen as the norm)

I hear you seriously, but again I feel the issue is more due to their culture than the incidence of rape by foreign soldiers. It came about because of even the reaction to it culturally, with the brothers attacking the lady who spoke about her experience of being raped. They treat women like property in a way and even abuse their women. The issue is their culture imo and the women are sick of it. Even in the clip you posted they speak on hiding from their future husband and having sex but they are not old enough to have children. The only way this will improve is if they make changes to their culture. Some traditions will have to be broken. This also will not change with traditional mediation imo and I know you are not saying it will be, but I'm just saying. They had enough many of the traditional ways so a new approach to solve these issues will need to be established. Maybe the creation of new rites of passges for womanhood or something to that effect.

A good example would be the video I pointed to earlier

In it a Maasai woman who are closely related culturally(Nilotic) to the Samburu and speak the same "maa" based Nilotic language. Is kicked out of her home by her brother when it is learned that the cattle are under threat and need to be corralled in the compound.

How did she handle the situation without an Umoja village to turn to?

She went to go stay with a brother in another village.

Now if the option to go to an Umoja village was there she might have taken that and ended up in a doc like this talking about "I don't want to get married". The remedies built into society are overlooked when you have a village like this. Which isn't so much of a problem on it's own until you start get this "I don't want to get married" talk. Even that isn't so much of a problem as an individual choice until it starts to get ideologized & promoted as a "way of life". Throw in outside forces with massive resources and you have a potential fire on your hands.

I agree with most of what you said here but think about it, what is built in to the society and was shown in your example is avoidance. That is not a real solution which is why the Umoja village is there. It's there because there are no real solutions or remedies to these problems and is built out of share reaction to the issues going on in there society. The women genuinely feel they don't want to be married because of all that comes with it for instance and as you said it will become a way of life, especially if those feminist outsiders start to get involved. So with that said they have to create a real solution before things get out of hand.

I agree 100% which is why I said men don't control this institution this is an issue of the over all community. To try and narrow it down to men is a lie which is why I posted the video

Agreed! Your right on that and it's a much bigger issue.

To paraphrase Dr. Ani
I'm not here to say the rightness or the wrongness in relation to if the women themselves or the society overall wants to alter, remove, keep the practice I'm just trying to do my part in putting it in it's proper perspective.

I've read academic articles, watched lectures, read books, watched documentaries, talked to people on the ground(mostly over the internet), etc. concerning all manner of topics in relation to African peoples and my position is constantly in flux given new information. This topic included, and one that pops out was a bbc doc about women who would get on a plane with their daughters and return to their native society to have their daughters go through traditional womanhood ceremonies because that is part of the culture. In the process those girls would be "cut" in addition to other training. When I see these docs (I've watched a couple on this village[actually already seen this doc before] and read papers) and they start talking about men circumcising women I already know what angle they are trying to pull.

It's much deeper than a men vs women issue that feminist try and spin it as. That's all I'm saying ...ok well not all I'm saying but you get it

Lmao yep, I see what your saying and I agree. It's not men vs women but deeper than that. It's culture, it's tradition and I don't want to be telling these people their ways are wrong but a solution needs to be devised.

 

[Guvnor]

What gets is the they're both the same. Tommy has two daughters and they have sons. One of the ones with sons have sad on a number of occasions that black boys should be aborted. And that same one defended the murder of a 17 month old boy. She has a son

Indeed man, it's madness and it's irrational on both sides of the fence. It sucks these people have a platform with growing followings as well when their are more important things we need to discuss anyway or we could work towards trying to have real discussions on these issues. These platforms that the folks are creating on youtube are only adding fuel to the fire and will accomplish nothing. People will just be left in the same predicament with bitter black women saying "men ain't sht..etc etc" and men saying all sorts of things about black women.

 

[videogamestashbox.com]

Lmao yep, I see what your saying and I agree. It's not men vs women but deeper than that. It's culture, it's tradition and I don't want to be telling these people their ways are wrong but a solution needs to be devised.

Basicaly ...and this Umoja village stuff isn't the solution.


Though I will say this ...there is no "solution" in the sense that now that we have this configuration we have the perfect society. Society is dynamic and problems can arise from within & without.

The question is...
1. What are your designated norms(pro-culture) that secures everyone's peace of mind & body along with societal growth.
2. What are your designated taboos(anti-culture) that recognizes threat to everyone's peace of mind & body along with societal growth.
3. What institutions/processes do you have in place to insulate you from disturbances to those norms(pro-culture)
4. What institutions/processes do you have to bring society back into cultural equilibrium with those norms(pro-culture)

Example:
The example I gave about the disturbance of the women being kicked out of the compound (her norm) wasn't do to her brother getting tired of her one day out the blue(internal) it was due to an impending threat to the cattle that the society lived on(external). Given that disturbance to her norm, the institutions/processes to bring life back into equilibrium from that disturbance was to go live with her other brother. So the question then becomes what institutions/processes can you add to insulate your society from being susceptible to those disturbances in the first place.

Maybe In addition what alternative institutions/processes can you add so that there is choice for people with various needs.


Ether way, with all the "solutions" we have for women in the U.S. there are still issues ...and for a quite simple/mundain reason Life is dynamic and there are always ebs and flows based on ever changing external & internal forces. The question is how does your society plan for and deal with those dynamics. The Samburu just have to answer those questions for themselves and if they don't do it then....



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