Chesirecatdaddy
All Star
french girls during summertime
In France: Male Arabs Upset Over Female Arabs Dating Blacks (Haters Gon Hate)
- Thread starter cole phelps
- Start date
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This account was for entertainment purposes only.
I don't think they like sistas as much as their own women but that's not the point.
Some Arab men have a thing for Black women.
Black Nate Grey
The God Emperor of Mankind
Didn't post already but thread is already 8 pages long so don't know if it's necessary. @Todd McPiff is a french west indian (guadeloupean) like me, so his views are as accurate as mine on the subject
. My 0.02€ then :
First, "Blacks" in France doesn't mean shyt. You either African or West indian (or polynesian or indian but there are not numerous here). The old gen was kind of segregated like that and the current gen is less close-minded but the distinction is important because it is not the same religion, culture, history, integration etc.
I grew up with everything from everywhere and I've always seen Africans for Africans and West Indians for West Indians.
We are not the same and I know you Americans like to claim some kind of unity through complexions (what you call races) but "Blacks" doesn't make sense : obviously we are black but Africans and West Indians (mostly) only share the same skin color and that's all. Our parents' culture, history, language, religion etc are way too different. There's a """"""friendly racism"""""" (I mean jokes by that) between us. We both suffer from racism obviously but that doesn't mean that we are united because of that or because we have the same skin color. As a matter of fact, we are not even the same skin color but that's another debate and TLR knows the darkskin / lightskin stupidity was too much).
Us, West Indians were always well welcomed by metropolitan French (though I am a metropolitan west indian as I was born here) has we share many things (culture, history, religion, language...) with them but also because our immigration was wanted by the government. Therefore we are less viewed as foreigners as can sons of African immigration can be. Many of public jobs (we call it Fonction Publique) like postal officers (?), police officers, nurses, always had a huge rate of West Indians because in the 60s/70s, the government wanted economic growth for its islands but also cheap workfore, so they call our parents to come here.
For more detailed stuff about black people in France, a post of mine here : http://www.thecoli.com/posts/4960108/
Second, there always have been a rivalry/dislike between Black Africans and Arab Africans. They may share the same religion (and for example, I see plenty of Black Muslims chatting with Arab Muslims leaving the mosque with no problem), or the same country but here, they are Black or Arab before Muslims. I'm sorry for @Chesirecatdaddy, but there's no real unity between them. They share many things but on the real they are two different communities who don't really like to mix with each other.
This dislike may already exist in African countries and is obviously a mix between religion, complexion and culture so it's only logic that it exists here when the immigrates come from their land and import cultural and historical package. But it's only community hate like the Vietnamese who hate the Chinese who hate the Japanese who hate the Koreans and so on. On the outside we think it's all good because they look alike or because they share stuff but culture and history have built strong hate (or on the opposite bonds) which we don't understand because we think they are the same. What separates us will always be stronger than what links us because it's easier to destroy than to build.
For example there is also a dislike between Maghrebis here : Algerians, Moroccans and Tunisians (gently) hate each other and it's sometimes not well-seen for a member of one of those communities to date in the two other... So the African / Arab hate is just the same stuff with different communities.
Third, religion and family has always been a big factor for sons of immigrants here. Honor and shame are important in those African and Arab cultures therefore disappointing the family will always seen bad by boys who are supposed to take the lead after. There's also a strong resurgence of a tougher Islam and more and more I see young Arabs wearing traditional outfits when 15 years ago growing up with some Arab friends we were all dressing in nike, adidas and all that.
Girls are less touched by this phenomenon and even if they may wear traditional clothes, stay between them, they are more liberated than the boys and more akin to date outside of their religion or their circle. Boys may also do that but more on the low because, well, honor, maybe.
Problems, then often come from the boys who feel like they represent the honor of the family by protecting the structure of it. 10 years ago for example, there was a kid killed because two families (one Arab, the other one African) went at each other because the Arab daughter was dating the African sons. Both big brothers went at it and a stray bullet hit a kid who was a the wrong place at the wrong time.
So as you can see in the article it's mainly Arab dudes who are mad at that because shaming is mostly used by males. But the same can be same for African dudes who will shame their sisters if they go out with an West Indian dude or with a Muslim dude (if the family is christian).
All in all, Male Arabs aren't upset because they Arabs but because they are males.
The Arab in them is just what gives this situation its salt, its difference, but in the end, it's just males touched in their honor/confidence/dignity (call it what you want) because they want to control what the females in their community HAVE TO do/be (or what they think they have to do or be) and they can't. In this sense, it's similar to what TLR dudes do with AA girls dating white dudes and calling them bedwenches. Shaming tactics because you can't control them.
Mr. Somebody
Friend Of A Friend
Just seems like a demonic powder keg to be honest. Jesus wouldnt agree with these tensions.
Didn't post already but thread is already 8 pages long so don't know if it's necessary. @Todd McPiff is a french west indian (guadeloupean) like me, so his views are as accurate as mine on the subject
My 0.02€ then :
First, "Blacks" in France doesn't mean shyt. You either African or West indian (or polynesian or indian but there are not numerous here). The old gen was kind of segregated like that and the current gen is less close-minded but the distinction is important because it is not the same religion, culture, history, integration etc.
I grew up with everything from everywhere and I've always seen Africans for Africans and West Indians for West Indians.
We are not the same and I know you Americans like to claim some kind of unity through complexions (what you call races) but "Blacks" doesn't make sense : obviously we are black but Africans and West Indians (mostly) only share the same skin color and that's all. Our parents' culture, history, language, religion etc are way too different. There's a """"""friendly racism"""""" (I mean jokes by that) between us. We both suffer from racism obviously but that doesn't mean that we are united because of that or because we have the same skin color. As a matter of fact, we are not even the same skin color but that's another debate and TLR knows the darkskin / lightskin stupidity was too much).
Us, West Indians were always well welcomed by metropolitan French (though I am a metropolitan west indian as I was born here) has we share many things (culture, history, religion, language...) with them but also because our immigration was wanted by the government. Therefore we are less viewed as foreigners as can sons of African immigration can be. Many of public jobs (we call it Fonction Publique) like postal officers (?), police officers, nurses, always had a huge rate of West Indians because in the 60s/70s, the government wanted economic growth for its islands but also cheap workfore, so they call our parents to come here.
For more detailed stuff about black people in France, a post of mine here : http://www.thecoli.com/posts/4960108/
Second, there always have been a rivalry/dislike between Black Africans and Arab Africans. They may share the same religion (and for example, I see plenty of Black Muslims chatting with Arab Muslims leaving the mosque with no problem), or the same country but here, they are Black or Arab before Muslims. I'm sorry for @Chesirecatdaddy, but there's no real unity between them. They share many things but on the real they are two different communities who don't really like to mix with each other.
This dislike may already exist in African countries and is obviously a mix between religion, complexion and culture so it's only logic that it exists here when the immigrates come from their land and import cultural and historical package. But it's only community hate like the Vietnamese who hate the Chinese who hate the Japanese who hate the Koreans and so on. On the outside we think it's all good because they look alike or because they share stuff but culture and history have built strong hate (or on the opposite bonds) which we don't understand because we think they are the same. What separates us will always be stronger than what links us because it's easier to destroy than to build.
For example there is also a dislike between Maghrebis here : Algerians, Moroccans and Tunisians (gently) hate each other and it's sometimes not well-seen for a member of one of those communities to date in the two other... So the African / Arab hate is just the same stuff with different communities.
Third, religion and family has always been a big factor for sons of immigrants here. Honor and shame are important in those African and Arab cultures therefore disappointing the family will always seen bad by boys who are supposed to take the lead after. There's also a strong resurgence of a tougher Islam and more and more I see young Arabs wearing traditional outfits when 15 years ago growing up with some Arab friends we were all dressing in nike, adidas and all that.
Girls are less touched by this phenomenon and even if they may wear traditional clothes, stay between them, they are more liberated than the boys and more akin to date outside of their religion or their circle. Boys may also do that but more on the low because, well, honor, maybe.
Problems, then often come from the boys who feel like they represent the honor of the family by protecting the structure of it. 10 years ago for example, there was a kid killed because two families (one Arab, the other one African) went at each other because the Arab daughter was dating the African sons. Both big brothers went at it and a stray bullet hit a kid who was a the wrong place at the wrong time.
So as you can see in the article it's mainly Arab dudes who are mad at that because shaming is mostly used by males. But the same can be same for African dudes who will shame their sisters if they go out with an West Indian dude or with a Muslim dude (if the family is christian).
All in all, Male Arabs aren't upset because they Arabs but because they are males.
The Arab in them is just what gives this situation its salt, its difference, but in the end, it's just males touched in their honor/confidence/dignity (call it what you want) because they want to control what the females in their community HAVE TO do/be (or what they think they have to do or be) and they can't. In this sense, it's similar to what TLR dudes do with AA girls dating white dudes and calling them bedwenches. Shaming tactics because you can't control them.
mcdivit85
Superstar
Dating an Arab chick is a stat though? 
Black dudes have always caused controversies when they date non-black women. For centuries in fact. Nothing new here and nothing special.
In fact, any visible amount of interracial or inter-ethnic dating generally causes some sort of stir....not just with black dudes or white dudes.
They complained when some of their chicks were getting with the French as well, so its just an issue of triablism. Nothing more, nothing less.
@ black dudes thinking that this is some sort of stat
Peace
Black dudes have always caused controversies when they date non-black women. For centuries in fact. Nothing new here and nothing special.
In fact, any visible amount of interracial or inter-ethnic dating generally causes some sort of stir....not just with black dudes or white dudes.
They complained when some of their chicks were getting with the French as well, so its just an issue of triablism. Nothing more, nothing less.
@ black dudes thinking that this is some sort of statPeace
Chesirecatdaddy
All Star
Didn't post already but thread is already 8 pages long so don't know if it's necessary. @Todd McPiff is a french west indian (guadeloupean) like me, so his views are as accurate as mine on the subject
My 0.02€ then :
First, "Blacks" in France doesn't mean shyt. You either African or West indian (or polynesian or indian but there are not numerous here). The old gen was kind of segregated like that and the current gen is less close-minded but the distinction is important because it is not the same religion, culture, history, integration etc.
I grew up with everything from everywhere and I've always seen Africans for Africans and West Indians for West Indians.
We are not the same and I know you Americans like to claim some kind of unity through complexions (what you call races) but "Blacks" doesn't make sense : obviously we are black but Africans and West Indians (mostly) only share the same skin color and that's all. Our parents' culture, history, language, religion etc are way too different. There's a """"""friendly racism"""""" (I mean jokes by that) between us. We both suffer from racism obviously but that doesn't mean that we are united because of that or because we have the same skin color. As a matter of fact, we are not even the same skin color but that's another debate and TLR knows the darkskin / lightskin stupidity was too much).
Us, West Indians were always well welcomed by metropolitan French (though I am a metropolitan west indian as I was born here) has we share many things (culture, history, religion, language...) with them but also because our immigration was wanted by the government. Therefore we are less viewed as foreigners as can sons of African immigration can be. Many of public jobs (we call it Fonction Publique) like postal officers (?), police officers, nurses, always had a huge rate of West Indians because in the 60s/70s, the government wanted economic growth for its islands but also cheap workfore, so they call our parents to come here.
For more detailed stuff about black people in France, a post of mine here : http://www.thecoli.com/posts/4960108/
Second, there always have been a rivalry/dislike between Black Africans and Arab Africans. They may share the same religion (and for example, I see plenty of Black Muslims chatting with Arab Muslims leaving the mosque with no problem), or the same country but here, they are Black or Arab before Muslims. I'm sorry for @Chesirecatdaddy, but there's no real unity between them. They share many things but on the real they are two different communities who don't really like to mix with each other.
This dislike may already exist in African countries and is obviously a mix between religion, complexion and culture so it's only logic that it exists here when the immigrates come from their land and import cultural and historical package. But it's only community hate like the Vietnamese who hate the Chinese who hate the Japanese who hate the Koreans and so on. On the outside we think it's all good because they look alike or because they share stuff but culture and history have built strong hate (or on the opposite bonds) which we don't understand because we think they are the same. What separates us will always be stronger than what links us because it's easier to destroy than to build.
For example there is also a dislike between Maghrebis here : Algerians, Moroccans and Tunisians (gently) hate each other and it's sometimes not well-seen for a member of one of those communities to date in the two other... So the African / Arab hate is just the same stuff with different communities.
Third, religion and family has always been a big factor for sons of immigrants here. Honor and shame are important in those African and Arab cultures therefore disappointing the family will always seen bad by boys who are supposed to take the lead after. There's also a strong resurgence of a tougher Islam and more and more I see young Arabs wearing traditional outfits when 15 years ago growing up with some Arab friends we were all dressing in nike, adidas and all that.
Girls are less touched by this phenomenon and even if they may wear traditional clothes, stay between them, they are more liberated than the boys and more akin to date outside of their religion or their circle. Boys may also do that but more on the low because, well, honor, maybe.
Problems, then often come from the boys who feel like they represent the honor of the family by protecting the structure of it. 10 years ago for example, there was a kid killed because two families (one Arab, the other one African) went at each other because the Arab daughter was dating the African sons. Both big brothers went at it and a stray bullet hit a kid who was a the wrong place at the wrong time.
So as you can see in the article it's mainly Arab dudes who are mad at that because shaming is mostly used by males. But the same can be same for African dudes who will shame their sisters if they go out with an West Indian dude or with a Muslim dude (if the family is christian).
All in all, Male Arabs aren't upset because they Arabs but because they are males.
The Arab in them is just what gives this situation its salt, its difference, but in the end, it's just males touched in their honor/confidence/dignity (call it what you want) because they want to control what the females in their community HAVE TO do/be (or what they think they have to do or be) and they can't. In this sense, it's similar to what TLR dudes do with AA girls dating white dudes and calling them bedwenches. Shaming tactics because you can't control them.
I can agree with and respect your viewpoint and the way you see things... I just see it the same way I see it with blacks, ricans, and dominicans in nyc. For example ricans and dominicans are both hispanic... they'll chill with each other kick it at clubs and etc... but they are segregated... doesn't really mean there is a true hatred in my eyes. When they are in groups together they will be cool and they might even intersect in certain hoods and projects.. but when they're the with their own people the rivalry that they have from way back will resurface.. and sometimes there are tensions.. yet a lot of times you will see them generally getting along. This is the same thing you will see with Moroccans, Tunisians, and Algerians... they might kick it, but sometimes shyt flares up because Algeria and Morocco have been at war with each other back home.
It's the same way I see Hispanic dudes getting mad at black dudes when they're women are dating them. Some will be ok with it ..some will just hate... it's like you said they are males and don't want to see their women leaving the cultural boundaries.. even if that means ignoring what Islam tells them about race. There is a different kind of climate of Islam going on these days and maybe like you said attitudes are changing a bit because of that. Yet just like here you'll see some black dudes kicking it with hispanics or hispanics that fukk with blacks heavy. To me segregation doesn't always equal hate. Ma mere est de Les Antille et mon pere lui c'est un marocain, so I'm pretty sure that shows you some of the attitudes at one point in time. Things might lead to some violent incidents but in general I don't see it as a mass attempt at antagonizing each other. I know it's definitely not on some Kumbaya shyt or united colors of beneton... and I've reiterated that quite a few times.. I just feel people on this board take extreme positions.
I agree also with the shaming thing that goes on I've definitely seen that first hand. I will be travelling there this summer and be hanging out with family members from both sides and the last time I was there the company was mixed.. I can't imagine that in two years it will be that much different.
I didn't read the whole thread but just the last few pages quickly so that's why I @'d you but I agree with you mostly, I was just disagreeing with the unity stuff I saw you wrote. I didn't notice you toned it down, so it's on me. I just meant that there's no deep hate but there's no bond either, it's somewhere in the middle because the community will still reign supreme, over friendship or love outside the circle, for most.
But your case definitely proves that people can and actually do date outside their cultural circle. There are plenty mixed couples where I live so that's not an issue for me. IMO, the article itself just speaks about a tiny phenomenon amplified by social networks and "race" relations (as you say it in the US) which are always hot topics. A decade ago (and I'm pretty sure, way longer before that), dudes were already talking bad about girls dating outside their community, so it's nothing new.
And "Ma mère est des Antilles et mon père est marocain" is better
Chesirecatdaddy
All Star
True trueI didn't read the whole thread but just the last few pages quickly so that's why I @'d you but I agree with you mostly, I was just disagreeing with the unity stuff I saw you wrote. I didn't notice you toned it down, so it's on me. I just meant that there's no deep hate but there's no bond either, it's somewhere in the middle because the community will still reign supreme, over friendship or love outside the circle, for most.
But your case definitely proves that people can and actually do date outside their cultural circle. There are plenty mixed couples where I live so that's not an issue for me. IMO, the article itself just speaks about a tiny phenomenon amplified by social networks and "race" relations (as you say it in the US) which are always hot topics. A decade ago (and I'm pretty sure, way longer before that), dudes were already talking bad about girls dating outside their community, so it's nothing new.
And "Ma mère est des Antilles et mon père est marocain" is better
and yeah that's what I got from the article as well... but of course motherfukkers wanna amp shyt.
Je parles le francais, mais desormais je suis toujours un Americain et je ne pratique jamais LOL... alors tu sais que je m'enfous de la grammaire et la conjugaison LOL..ca me tue toutes les regles de merde dans la langue francaise
... no offense LOL
the next guy
Superstar
Why? as long as you're not c00ning you're doing nothing wrong. We have to move forward not backward.
Bump there is already a thread people...
