In a perverse way, I kinda respect dictators rise to power

[Techniec]

Me and my boy were having this debate the other day, in a rather intoxicated state

Now i dont fukk with those who violate human rights and hold themselves above the rule of law, so Im not trying to be an apologist for dictators

But in a perverse, "gangsta" way I respect someone like Saddam, who was abandoned by his daddy and grew up on some "me against the world " tip, taking power by force, more then some trust fund baby who grew up and got involved in politics here in the west through good old fashioned hook ups and cock sukkery

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Their gangsta-ness can be admirable in a perverse way, just like Tony Montana or 50 Cent. But the fact that so many people from the underclass admire and rally behind these goons who make it to the top through force and maintain their savage ways is very problematic and self-defeating for obvious reasons.

 

[Ronnie Lott]

But the problem with your example of sadaam is that he did in fact insite mass killings, brutality against his own people, mass executions, the degredation and denial of rights for wemon. A dictators rise to power includes atrocities committed against his own people. That rule with an iron fist ideology has collateral damage written all over it

 

[zerozero]

Maybe.. something I've been thinking along these lines though is that in general politics and power in 3rd world countries is a far more sophisticated and dangerous game -- whether electoral or based on other authority -- than in developed countries.

I mean, when the hardest thing you have to fight about is tax policy
in Pakistan people literally want to machine gun leaders, judges, and assorted government figures the minute they walk out the door

That said racial and ethnic politics in america was pretty dangerous for much of the 20th century too so maybe it's not that different

 

[Techniec]

Maybe.. something I've been thinking along these lines though is that in general politics and power in 3rd world countries is a far more sophisticated and dangerous game -- whether electoral or based on other authority -- than in developed countries.

I mean, when the hardest thing you have to fight about is tax policy
in Pakistan people literally want to machine gun leaders, judges, and assorted government figures the minute they walk out the door

That said racial and ethnic politics in america was pretty dangerous for much of the 20th century too so maybe it's not that different

thats another critical point, some of these dudes come up in crazy environments, where its literally kill or be killed

if i ran for MP here in Toronto, Id be kissing babies and attending local district debates

if I got involved in Afghan politics, Id have to put some tribesmen on payroll, and turn a blind eye to opiumn traffikers and might have to crack some skulls

 

[blackzeus]

People always respect power, no matter what, and are drawn to it in a way. And in some of these feudal societies, the one with power has always ruled. "Dictatorship" is new to y'all maybe, but to them, it's the normal way of life

 

[zerozero]

People always respect power, no matter what, and are drawn to it in a way. And in some of these feudal societies, the one with power has always ruled. "Dictatorship" is new to y'all maybe, but to them, it's the normal way of life

I wouldn't say that... dictatorship is a function of the nature of a modern, strong, technological state.. the kings and emperors of old didn't have that kinda grip all over the region they 'ruled'

and a lot of these places didn't have kings or emperors at all.. just landlords and tribal chiefs

 

[blackzeus]

I wouldn't say that... dictatorship is a function of the nature of a modern, strong, technological state.. the kings and emperors of old didn't have that kinda grip all over the region they 'ruled'

and a lot of these places didn't have kings or emperors at all.. just landlords and tribal chiefs

Genghis Khan, Ivan the Terrible, and Shakazulu weren't dictators? ok buddy.

 

[zerozero]

Genghis Khan, Ivan the Terrible, and Shakazulu weren't dictators? ok buddy.

Hell no they weren't. They were autocratic in the influence they held but they didn't have the tools of dictatorship the way Stalin had just because the nature of a 'ruled land' was different from a modern state

 

[Techniec]

Hell no they weren't. They were autocratic in the influence they held but they didn't have the tools of dictatorship the way Stalin had just because the nature of a 'ruled land' was different from a modern state

isnt this just technicalities?

if the Great Khagan wanted you dead, you was dead

 

[zerozero]

isnt this just technicalities?

if the Great Khagan wanted you dead, you was dead

That's why I said they were autocratic. But dictatorship is a pervasive thing. Even in a modern state--eg Libya--Gaddafi wasn't completely a dictator in the way Saddam was.

Basically I don't think it's intellectually sustainable to say the places that had dictators after the colonists left were made to have dictators historically. A lot of them had very autonomous types of governance even under pre-european larger royal families. I think it's too easy to go from Point A to point B in this idea. And we're looking at a very narrow window to see if dictatorship has suited them as a "not new idea"... basically 50-60 years during the cold war

 

[blackzeus]

Hell no they weren't. They were autocratic in the influence they held but they didn't have the tools of dictatorship the way Stalin had just because the nature of a 'ruled land' was different from a modern state

isnt this just technicalities?

if the Great Khagan wanted you dead, you was dead

^^the only tool that matters. Whether you send armed guards with tasers, rubber bullets, and tear gas, or you send a few of your nephews and grandkids with machetes, the end result is the same. Bow down or lay down

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

genghis khan was no dictator. he was ruthless in taking lands, but often allowed the peoples of the lands he took to maintain their culture and way of life...also, most of his empire was split up into khanates that were under his general authority but not necessarily his direct and active power.

 

[Techniec]

well dictator isnt a strict term, cuz you have psychotic dictators a la saddam and then you have more benevolent ones a la tito

 

[Mowgli]

Demons are heroes?