How the Quran was formed. (Historical Breakdown)

[DoubleClutch]

There were no white people in that region. Everyone had dark skin. Dark skin = black. There were African and Arab populations. The Hebrew language predates Judaism and Christianity. Then the language switched to Aramaic, then Arabic. Judaism started in Palestine/Jordan. Then Islam spread and converted the population. Some Hebrews fled to Europe and started mixing with CAC which birthed Ashkenazi Jews and the monstrosity we have today.
Modern day Palestinians are linked to the Ancient Hebrews and the tribes of Judah, but since an Israeli cac from Poland's great great great great great great aunt could've fukked a Hebrew and had a baby, She can now claim her entire bloodline started in Palestine.

No breh, that northern “Arabia” region at the time had already been conquered by Romans, Persians Among others going back so unless you think EVERYONE on the planet was African there was “non African” white skin people around

They had mixed with the people obviously that they conquered

But the nomadic isolated Bedouins, pagans or whatever you call them and Jewish tribes obviously were people of color

And the Egyptians, Ethiopian, Somali etc neighboring Africans and southern Arabian ancient Yemeni who Islam would later conquer and Arabize and claim as ARAB were people of color and mixed but NOT white

And you could say what you want about the “original Jews” who were also a heavily mixed and displaced group at the time before Islam took over

But you see the YEMENI JEWSIH communities dark skinned for the most part because they fled south

Anyways, the Arab slave trade blurred many lines when it came to race and identity and religion.

It created the “white Arab” and colorism we have in Arab culture and cemented black African inferiority by religion and made BLACK synonymous with SLAVE or ABEED as Arabs will say in their language

But one thing for sure:

ARAB is not a race

And also

Palestinians are just ARAB identifying people of all races that migrated over time from Arab Muslim countries/kingdoms to ISRAEL im assuming during the years right before BRITAIN renamed the region Palestine and made them a new country and race

We don’t know who the ORIGINAL people of the region of JUDAH are because most left long time ago and couldn’t stay or survive or even keep their bloodline pure and neither can they PROVE IT

You cant usa a DNA test to show faith

Only thing Important is the LAND keeping its name and history

 

[Koichos]

The problem you have with beliefs like these is you insinuate God is “playing both sides of field” per say

יוֹצֵ֥ר אוֹר֙ וּבוֹרֵ֣א חֹ֔שֶׁךְ
עֹשֶׂ֥ה שָׁל֖וֹם וּב֣וֹרֵא רָ֑ע
אֲנִ֥י יְיׇ֖ עֹשֶׂ֥ה כׇל־אֵֽלֶּה​

Forming ‘Light’ and creating ‘Darkness’,
making ‘Peace’ and creating ‘Evil’—
it is I, Adοnai, doing all this! (Y'sha`yahu 45:7)

All three verbs יוֹֹצֵֵר yοtzer (‘forming’), בּוֹֹרֵֵא borë (‘creating’) and עֹֹשֶֶׂה `οseh (‘making’ or ‘doing’) are present participles illustrating a continuous, ongoing process.

Now one thing for you to consider (as a practicer of Judaism) is, why both “false” prophets were critical of Jews and the Judaism of the time, what’s the purpose in that?

When considering all prophets sent to Israel in Judaism were critical and warned of Gods judgement.

Meanwhile both Jesus and “Muhammad” agree God is one and that Israel (the people and the land) are the chosen people set apart by God.

What makes them false (well we know why the Quran is false) or evil?

The promises Gοd made to Avraham Avinu were limited to his זֶרַע zera`, for which He provides His very own definition (B'reshyt 21:12):

בְְיִִצְְחָָָ֔ק יִִקָָּרֵֵ֥א לְְךָ֖ זָָֽרַַע׃...​

...[your offspring] through Yitzħaḳ will be considered your ‘zera`’.

This word is a collective noun (שֵֵׁם קִִבּוּצִִי shem ḳibbutzi) denoting the totality of one’s descendants for all time, reckoned as a single group.

In Parashat ‘Shοfṭim’ 18:15 our Teacher Mοsheh promises that

...נָבִ֨יא מִקִּרְבְּךָ֤ מֵֽאַחֶ֨יךָ֙ כָּמֹ֔נִי יָקִ֥ים לְךָ֖ יְיָָ֣ אֱלֹקֶ֑יךָ​

Adοnai, your Gοd, will set up prophets for you from among you, from your own brothers, just like me...

And in verse 18 Gοd tells Mοsheh:

...נָבִ֨יא אָקִ֥ים לָהֶ֛ם מִקֶּ֥רֶב אֲחֵיהֶ֖ם כָּמ֑וֹךָ​

I will set up prophets for them from among their own brothers, just like you...

This passage tells us two things:

1. the prophets Gοd sends to the Yisr´eli nation will all be ordinary human beings—not half-human, half-divine hybrid man-gοds; and
2. all such prophets will be ‘from among our own brothers, just as Mοsheh was’—that is to say, part of K'lal Yisra´el.

Besides, prophecy had already ceased by the time of `Ezra and N'ħemyah (see, for example, `Ezra 2:63 and N'ħemyah 7:65). Assaf ben Berechyahu, one of the choral administrators appointed to supervise the Temple choir and orchestra (D.H. Alef 6:24, 15:17), foretells as much in Tillim 74:9 (he composed twelve Tillim: 50, 73-83)

אוֹתֹתֵ֗ינוּ לֹ֥א רָ֫אִ֥ינוּ
אֵין־ע֥וֹד נָבִ֑יא
:וְלֹא־אִ֝תָּ֗נוּ יֹדֵ֥עַ עַד־מָֽה​

Our signs—we have not seen [them],
there are no more prophets [lit., ‘there is no prophet anymore’],
and [there is] not with us [any] one knowing how long [this exile will last].

You can’t pick and choose what to believe as it fits your beliefs and narratives or fits into your end times/messiah scenario

That’s exactly where the proto Muslims went wrong and ultimately created an entirely new religion out of Christianity

That’s why I say the idea of the “messiah” was so ambiguous and flexible with the times it became in the “eye of the beholder” and basically anything goes

The most believable option is that Jesus was/is the messiah. Only ONE Messiah

The ‘most believable option’ to you isn’t actually borne out by the Tana"ch so what you call him is completely irrelevant, but that’s what happens when you purloin a foreign concept from another culture and change its meaning to make up for your lack of actual knowledge. After all, christendom has made up its own definition of a ‘messiah’; and islam, who can no more tolerate a second gοd than Judaism can, has done the same for the Arabic term مسيح masiħ. Consequently, muslims cannot mean the same thing when they call someone المسيح al-masiħ as christians mean when they call a person ‘the messiah’ - and neither of you has a clue as to what the Hebrew word מׇשִׁיחַ mashiyaħ means.

 

[DoubleClutch]

All three verbs יוֹֹצֵֵר yοtzer (‘forming’), בּוֹֹרֵֵא borë (‘creating’) and עֹֹשֶֶׂה `οseh (‘making’ or ‘doing’) are present participles illustrating a continuous, ongoing process.

This passage tells us two things:

1. the prophets Gοd sends to the Yisr´eli nation will all be ordinary human beings—not half-human, half-divine hybrid man-gοds; and
2. all such prophets will be ‘from among our own brothers, just as Mοsheh was’—that is to say, part of K'lal Yisra´el.

Consequently, muslims cannot mean the same thing when they call someone المسيح al-masiħ as christians mean when they call a person ‘the messiah’ - and neither of you has a clue as to what the Hebrew word מׇשִׁיחַ mashiyaħ means.

Forming ‘Light’ and creating ‘Darkness’,
making ‘Peace’ and creating ‘Evil’—
it is I, Adοnai, doing all this! (Y'sha`yahu 45:7)

^ this is actually a pretty complex verse to understand. I think the idea would require its own thread

Also depends on your own perspective or bias when reading the scriptures

I’ll just say Islam has a purpose same way Satan does. Not to say God is controlling Satan or even the God of Islam IS SATAN, but like the scripture says:

Romans 8:28. King James Version ... And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Or even

In Isaiah 55:8-9

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways

Most people might not understand the complexity of what’s going on that verse, and it might seem as a contradictions (God creating evil or darkness) but what’s the over all purpose?

Only God knows.

So I’d say us humans are responsible with what’s going on here on earth. God intervenes with his “children” and someone NOT from the “family” can call it GOOD or EVIL from the outside looking in.

What I’m saying is GOD cannot be working both sides as if he’s GOD and the Devil

Even Jesus said:

25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?

So logically there’s no scenario I can think of where both JESUS and MUHAMMAD are prophets sent by GOD

Either one is right and the other is wrong or BOTH religions are wrong since Islam depends on Christianity to exist.

However, both religions have a role to play when it comes to ISRAEL as you can clearly see in todays news and throughout history

Any Jew (or Christian) today, would be delusional to ignore Islams role in Gods plan.

That’s part of why I’m so interested in Islamic history because it happened in a way that perfectly “checks all the boxes”

Almost by design or even intentionally scripted despite NOT being an official continuation or “final” chapter of the Bible story (as Muslims might see it)

But a “necessary evil” with many purposes as @MMS might say

Because after all….technically, there’d be NO ISHMAEL or ARABS or even “MUHAMMAD” if Abraham would’ve trusted God and never had a son with Hagar.

And for the 2nd part of your response

I’ll just say this:

1.

Some Jews see the “messiah” as a divine like figure….. which Jesus (whether you call him that name or not) would fit the description.

You can see him as gods representation on earth or Gods “son” or the “angel of the lord” or the “burning bush” or the holy of Holies, arc of covenant etc… but it’s not a concept that doesn’t exist In Judaism

I could send you a video that goes deeper on this concept


And 2.


Muslims believe in multiple messiahs and they even put themselves (caliphates) or kings as their own “coming messiahs”

Like I said, they redefine the phrase or idea (which I doubt they never understood 100%) to fit their own apocalyptic religious worldview

So yea Muslims don’t believe in the same “Jewish” messiah

But a succession of their Muslim “Messiahs” until the end times

Like I said, as a Christian we believe in ONE King Messiah like you.

What’s the point of sending a Messiah if he doesn’t win and rule forever?

 

[MMS]

But a “necessary evil” with many purposes as @MMS might say

Because after all….technically, there’d be NO ISHMAEL or ARABS or even “MUHAMMAD” if Abraham would’ve trusted God and never had a son with Hagar.

this makes absolutely no sense

Sarai (before she was renamed) was barren and gave her handmaiden "Hagar" to Abraham as a wife who bore him Ishmael

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 16 - King James Version

Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice...

www.biblegateway.com

your problem with interpreting is you are reading pauls letters to churches in greece and using them to interpret old testament scripture which is a bad idea as @Koichos has already shown you

also ive said it and others have said it "annointed" means "selected" thus the use of oil. Not to be confused with baptism which is with water

but in ancient context it does not mean what you think. Here is an ancient story that may lend credence to where Im going with it

In ancient Greece, there was a debate in Athens for which deity they would worship. When they worshipped Poseidon he flooded the plain but when they worshipped Athena (wisdom) they received the Olive tree which was a permanent food source

think about what separates water and oil? mystically speaking. Then consider the two seeds of Abraham

Ishmael (God has heard) is a wild ass of a man with his hand against all and all hands against him (similar to water)

Isaac (He will laugh) is bound to test Abraham and then swapped with a ram and then his offspring (Esau and Jacob) become nations

one pattern with tons of storage, and another pattern that is every where but stores nothing both needed for life

 

[LuuqMaan]

Bruh has to keep calling Islam false
Meanwhile, the Jew breh is denying his messiah using Old Testament that he cannot refute or claim false

So he’s stuck in this strange area

 

[DoubleClutch]

this makes absolutely no sense

Sarai (before she was renamed) was barren and gave her handmaiden "Hagar" to Abraham as a wife who bore him Ishmael

I know what you’ve said about Islam years ago

But maybe your opinion has evolved

But I’m speaking in more of a non biblical sense regarding what’s happened historically

Because Islam is a “religion” that has come after let’s say “it is finished” and like @Koichos (in one thing I agree with him) said above, Muhammad cannot be a prophet for Israel or in the line of Bible prophets because according to their own scriptures and GOD he’s not off the right family or lineage

Since it’s finished and I’ll say the “book is closed” all we can do is speculate about the future

Just like Muhammad, most Muslims and a lot of Christians are now concerned with end times and trying to fulfill prophecy

But I think we’ve covered this topic before: what would the Christian church be like if Islam never existed

What would Israel look like?

There’d be no Israel vs hamas war, for example.

 

[MMS]

I know what you’ve said about Islam years ago

But maybe your opinion has evolved

But I’m speaking in more of a non biblical sense regarding what’s happened historically

Because Islam is a “religion” that has come after let’s say “it is finished” and like @Koichos (in one thing I agree with him) said above, Muhammad cannot be a prophet for Israel or in the line of Bible prophets because according to their own scriptures and GOD he’s not off the right family or lineage

Since it’s finished and I’ll say the “book is closed” all we can do is speculate about the future

Just like Muhammad, most Muslims and a lot of Christians are now concerned with end times and trying to fulfill prophecy

But I think we’ve covered this topic before: what would the Christian church be like if Islam never existed

What would Israel look like?

There’d be no Israel vs hamas war, for example.

youre looking at it wrong still

Muhammad (pbuh) is a prophet of Allah (The God)

while Isaiah is a prophet of The God of Israel

if you interpret the religions as fighting styles you'll see why you keep doing this with them

Y'all ever think about how INSANE our existence is?

THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU THINK OF GOD AS A CORPOREAL BEING, AS OPPOSED TO AN OMNISCIENCE ENERGY MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED THAN YOUR MIND COULD EVER HAVE THE CAPACITY TO TRULY UNDERSTAND. ONCE U STOP LOOKING AT GOD LIKE A LITTLE CHILD ("THE BIG BEARDED OLD MAN IN THE CLOUDS"), THEN IT MAKES IT MUCH...

www.thecoli.com

إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوا۟ وَعَمِلُوا۟ ٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتِ يَهْدِيهِمْ رَبُّهُم بِإِيمَـٰنِهِمْ ۖ تَجْرِى مِن تَحْتِهِمُ ٱلْأَنْهَـٰرُ فِى جَنَّـٰتِ ٱلنَّعِيمِ ٩​

Surely those who believe and do good, their Lord will guide them ˹to Paradise˺ through their faith, rivers will flow under their feet in the Gardens of Bliss,​

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/how-islam-got-jesus-completely-wrong.895708/page-46#post-49691461

 

[DoubleClutch]

Bruh has to keep calling Islam false
Meanwhile, the Jew breh is denying his messiah using Old Testament that he cannot refute or claim false

So he’s stuck in this strange area

Breh, this thread is about Islam. I’m not getting derailed to talk about Judaism and his beliefs

He can read everything I say about Jesus. He has a brain to decide what to believe

Plus I know it’s written that a certain group of Jewish people will have trouble accepting Jesus because their expectations of the “messiah” didn’t include a “suffering dying servant”

but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

It’s easier for people like you to Believe in Jesus and especially Muslims who have an advantage because the Quran is all about Jesus anyways

They’re just tricked into following a religion that worships Muhammad and upholds pagan Arab culture/rituals

And Jews have to constantly deal with the elephant in the room

I’m not the one in the “strange place”.

I’m coming from a bank state.

I don’t have forces in my culture telling me who Jesus is or isn’t from the day I’m born

I’m free to come to these conclusions unbiased on my own time with no pressure

If a Jew or Muslim believes in Jesus, they lose their entire community, identity and culture

That’s why Jesus said

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.



Or

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.

 

[DoubleClutch]

youre looking at it wrong still

Muhammad (pbuh) is a prophet of Allah (The God)

while Isaiah is a prophet of The God of Israel

If if I did agree to see it how you do, (and that’s two gods by the way) you’d still be in contradiction because:

The God of Israel sent JESUS

And the THE GOD of ISLAM allegedly sent MUHAMMAD who contradicts the teachings of Jesus

So by simple logic BOTH GODS cannot be working together

Unless you believe in a Good GOD and an EVIL one. And like I said long time ago that would make you a Gnostic

I think you denied being Gnostic last time I asked.

But I do remember you saying the GOD of Israel is BAAL or something which requires human sacrifice

I could be wrong though

But either way, you’d have more problems to deal with than solutions trying to make room for Islam and Christianity to coexist

Plus breh, HISTORICALLY you know Islam has no credibility

That’s the entire point of this thread. Go look at the video in the OP

Nobody has refuted it yet.

 

[Koichos]

Sarai (before she was renamed) was barren and gave her handmaiden "Hagar" to Abraham as a wife who bore him Ishmael

I’ve always found it interesting that the gimaṭr'ya of שָׂרַי sarai and אַבְרָם avram (pre-name change) are equal to that of שָׂרָה sarah and אַבְרָהָם avraham (post-name change).

• 753 = שָׂרַי + אַבְרָם
• 753 = שָׂרָה + אַבְרָהָם

It is brought down on folio 13a of the גְּמָרָא יְרוּשַׁלְמִית of pereḳ bet, halachah vav that the י yod of שָׂרַי was split into two: 5 was subtracted from שָׂרַי by replacing the י yod (=10) with ה he (=5) to create שָׂרָה, and the remaining 5 (ה) were given to אַבְרָם to create אַבְרָהָם.

The restrictions of שָׂרַי were lifted by replacing י yod (masculine suffix) with the softest and most fertile of all letters, ה he (feminine suffix).

Breh, this thread is about Islam. I’m not getting derailed to talk about Judaism and his beliefs

He can read everything I say about Jesus. He has a brain to decide what to believe

Plus I know it’s written that a certain group of Jewish people will have trouble accepting Jesus because their expectations of the “messiah” didn’t include a “suffering dying servant”

God’s ‘suffering servant’ is an allegory of the nation of Yisra´el: the ‘brick’ that was rejected by every ‘builder’ of the world since man started ‘building’ empires (Tillim 118:22).

 

[MMS]

If if I did agree to see it how you do, (and that’s two gods by the way) you’d still be in contradiction because:

remember

God made man and woman in his image (the same image)

his logic begins with "God created in the beginning"

and his work begins with "Formlessness was the only description of the deep, then the breath of God went over the face of the waters"

so God established mirror relationships that early, so once again re-read what I wrote and consider it

Isaiah 42:16 Hebrew Text Analysis

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/we-are-living-in-a-world-of-illusion.824646/page-63#post-53043288

 

[MMS]

God’s ‘suffering servant’ is an allegory of the nation of Yisra´el: the ‘brick’ that was rejected by every ‘builder’ of the world since man started ‘building’ empires (Tillim 118:22).

or is it Gershom?

In other related writings it is mentioned that God ordered Moses to pass authority unto Joshua instead of his own two stubborn sons, Gershom and Eliezer.

A sojourner there...but where is the genealogy of Moses children?

 

[DoubleClutch]

God’s ‘suffering servant’ is an allegory of the nation of Yisra´el: the ‘brick’ that was rejected by every ‘builder’ of the world since man started ‘building’ empires (Tillim 118:22).

Yes we believe the same thing

Jesus accomplished what Israel couldn’t (following the law perfectly)

Yet he still suffered the same fate as Israel allegorically did throughout the Bible as a sacrifice and representation of gods mercy for use to believe in.

Yea Jesus IS Israel if you see it that way and recognize the parallels and symbolism

I don’t need to recognize it on this level because I’m not Jewish but it’s there for understanding from your deeper perspective I guess if you was to read the Bible, become Christian and connect the dots

You know prophecy applies to all times so there is duality

Otherwise it makes no sense why an “innocent” man like Jesus was punished, crucified and killed.

Or why he was even sent in the first place if he is suppose to be the messiah (as Muslims believe)

Moving on…

The phrase "the stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone" is a biblical metaphor, particularly found in Psalm 118:22, referring to Jesus as the foundation of faith, despite being initially rejected, and is a key theme in Christian theology

And he said he is THE ROCK for what is to come in all believers

When Jesus says “on this rock I will build,” he uses a slightly different word: “You are petros, and on this petra I will build . . .” This creates space between Peter and the church’s rock. Jesus does not say “On you I will build my church” but “on this rock.” “This rock” is distinct from Peter, although connected to him. We soon discover the difference between the man and the rock. After Jesus grants Peter the keys to the kingdom (see below), Jesus explains how he must die in Jerusalem (Matt. 16:21). Peter rebukes Jesus, whom he has just called the Son of God, saying, “This shall never happen to you” (Matt. 16:22). In response Jesus chastises Peter: “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me” (Matt. 16:23). “Hindrance” translates skandalon, a cause of offense, a temptation, a trap.

Notice the change. At first, Peter is the church’s rock. Now he is tempter, a foe. So Peter’s status depends on what he says. When Peter forbids the cross, he is a stumbling stone. When he proclaims Jesus as the Christ, he is a rock. Thus Peter is not the foundation of the church. Jesus in Matthew 21:42 will point to himself as the cornerstone, citing Isaiah 28:16 and Psalm 118:22. In 1 Corinthians 3:11, Paul identifies Jesus as the church’s sole foundation. Later, Paul writes that God built his “household . . . on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone”

A little derailment off the topic into CHRISTIANITY but y’all asked for it

 

[MMS]

Yes we believe the same thing

Jesus accomplished what Israel couldn’t (following the law perfectly)

Yet he still suffered the same fate as Israel allegorically did throughout the Bible as a sacrifice and representation of gods mercy for use to believe in.

Yea Jesus IS Israel if you see it that way and recognize the parallels and symbolism

I don’t need to recognize it on this level because I’m not Jewish but it’s there for understanding from your deeper perspective I guess if you was to read the Bible, become Christian and connect the dots

You know prophecy applies to all times so there is duality

Otherwise it makes no sense why an “innocent” man like Jesus was punished, crucified and killed.

Or why he was even sent in the first place if he is suppose to be the messiah (as Muslims believe)

Moving on…

The phrase "the stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone" is a biblical metaphor, particularly found in Psalm 118:22, referring to Jesus as the foundation of faith, despite being initially rejected, and is a key theme in Christian theology

And he said he is THE ROCK for what is to come in all believers

When Jesus says “on this rock I will build,” he uses a slightly different word: “You are petros, and on this petra I will build . . .” This creates space between Peter and the church’s rock. Jesus does not say “On you I will build my church” but “on this rock.” “This rock” is distinct from Peter, although connected to him. We soon discover the difference between the man and the rock. After Jesus grants Peter the keys to the kingdom (see below), Jesus explains how he must die in Jerusalem (Matt. 16:21). Peter rebukes Jesus, whom he has just called the Son of God, saying, “This shall never happen to you” (Matt. 16:22). In response Jesus chastises Peter: “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me” (Matt. 16:23). “Hindrance” translates skandalon, a cause of offense, a temptation, a trap.

Notice the change. At first, Peter is the church’s rock. Now he is tempter, a foe. So Peter’s status depends on what he says. When Peter forbids the cross, he is a stumbling stone. When he proclaims Jesus as the Christ, he is a rock. Thus Peter is not the foundation of the church. Jesus in Matthew 21:42 will point to himself as the cornerstone, citing Isaiah 28:16 and Psalm 118:22. In 1 Corinthians 3:11, Paul identifies Jesus as the church’s sole foundation. Later, Paul writes that God built his “household . . . on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone”

A little derailment off the topic into CHRISTIANITY but y’all asked for it

but you are forgetting an important story in the old testament

Nadab and Abihu - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In Exodus 30 and Leviticus, God outlines a proper sacrifice to him.[14][12][15][13] Aaron, the chief priest, was to present all offerings representing himself and the people.

And Moses said unto Aaron, Go unto the altar, and offer thy sin offering, and thy burnt offering, and make an atonement for thyself, and for the people: and offer the offering of the people, and make an atonement for them; as the Lord commanded.
— Leviticus 9:7 Authorized Version

God would send his own fire to consume the sacrifice as a sign of his presence.[11][12][13]

When the fire from the Lord came and consumed the sacrifice, it was perceived as a token of God’s glory and favor. And this sacred fire, which the Lord Himself had kindled was to be used to burn the incense. But Nadab and Abihu, when they took their censers to burn fragrant incense, they used a different fire, a strange fire, not the fire which the Lord kindled and commanded to be used for this purpose. This was a sin and for this sin a fire came from heaven and devoured them in front of the congregation.[16]

When Nadab and Abihu lit the offering in the censers themselves, their fire was profane and thus God was not in it.[17] They prepared an incense offering upon kindling of their own and not of the holy incense from the sacred bronze altar. This was seen as foreign or unholy fire (Hebrew: אֵ֣שׁ זָרָ֔ה ’êš zārāh).[17] Aaron’s sons spurned the command to wait for holy fire and offered incense with profane fire.[18] Anyone who altered the sacrificial system assumed a prerogative belonging to God alone.[19]

To Pharaoh, Moses would be like God, and his brother Aaron would be his prophet

and without Moses all of the sons of Israel would be Pharaohs servants. So Nadab (Generous) and Abihu (My Father is He) are the first great prophets of Moses based on what is written.

furthermore remember Pharaoh had all of the hebrews working in mortar and pitch...and if you contrast that to Moses destroying the tablets it is with understanding that you can see what kind of being gets trapped there.

Spoiler

Exodus 7:12 Hebrew Text Analysis

We are living in a world of illusion

@Koichos Resh - Wikipedia Sheqer or Seker? maybe both We are living in a world of illusion Is this another one of your ridiculous etymological connection claims? Boring! shéqer לבני ירושלים, לבני ספרד ולבני המזרח, לבני אשכנז, פולין ורוסיה sháqar לבני שרעב shágar לבני צנעא You score only...

www.thecoli.com

 

[Koichos]

or is it Gershom?


A sojourner there...but where is the genealogy of Moses children?

After providing the names of the mothers of David (Nitzevet bat `ad´el) and Shimshοn (Tz'lelpοnit), the g'mara bavlit continues with the question למאי נפקא מינה l'ma´i nafḳa minnaH? (‘What difference does this make?’), and gives the answer: לתשובת המינים litshuvat haminnim (‘as a retort to heretics’): if heretics should ever ask why the names of the mothers of important Biblical characters like the aforementioned are not given in the narrative, they can be answered that their names are known from the Oral Tradition.

Considering how a grandson of his (Ger'shοm’s son Yοnatan) turned out (according to Rash"i on Shοfṭim 18:30 and the passage above, on the verso of the leaf), it may well be that Mοsheh’s descendants failed to carry the torch after his death. Instead, Aharοn’s sons and the kοhanim who descended from them were Mοsheh’s ‘intellectual heirs’.

Take a look at the following picture, which is a scan of lines 10-12 of page 78 of the standard Tana"ch edition published by Koren Publishers Ltd., Y'rushalayim:

​

וַיָּקִ֧ימוּ לָהֶ֛ם בְּנֵי־דָ֖ן אֶת־הַפָּ֑סֶל וִ֠יהֽוֹנָתָ֠ן בֶּן־גֵּֽרְשֹׁ֨ם בֶּן־מְנַשֶּׁ֜ה ה֣וּא וּבָנָ֗יו הָי֤וּ כֹֽהֲנִים֙ לְשֵׁ֣בֶט הַדָּנִ֔י עַד־י֖וֹם גְּל֥וֹת הָאָֽרֶץ׃​

The descendants of Dan set up an idol-statue for themselves and Yοnatan, a descendant of Ger'shοm son of M'nashsheh, both he and his sons [after him] continued to function as the tribe of Dan’s priests right up to the time that the [northern kingdom] was exiled. (Shοfṭim 18:30)

In all kasher scrolls of the N'vi´im (and printed Tana"chim, as shown above) there is a ‘suspended nun’ in the name מנשה M'nashsheh. Deletion of this scribal oddity from the name מנשה M'nashsheh changes it into משה Mοsheh. This is discussed in the g'mara above where it is disclosed that this ‘Yοnatan’ was in fact a descendant of Mοsheh’s elder son Ger'shοm (Sh'mοt 18:3; D.H. Alef 23:15). The g'mara explains that this Yοnatan’s ancestry was made to look as though he were from the tribe Y'hudah because he acted as wickedly as the Y'hudi king M'nashsheh (a notorious idolater), who was from Y'hudah. The purpose of this minor subterfuge was to protect Mοsheh’s reputation and honor.