UpAndComing
Veteran
You have no idea what the 4 points I made in that post. Just admit it and move along
How Europe Stole The World
You have no idea what the 4 points I made in that post. Just admit it and move along
Gritsngravy
Superstar
Your points only takes a small percentage of what actually happened but yet you come to the conclusion everybody should’ve been practicing capitalism to prevent a couple of European countries from colonizing
No that doesn’t make sense in the scheme of things
And you really didn’t explain your points you gave vague answers, stop trying to act like the smartest guy in the room like you know what you talking about you going to hurt yourself
UpAndComing
Veteran
Its vague because you don't understand it
. How many times do I have to repeat this
Gritsngravy
Superstar
You didn’t explain your argument well and never addressed what I wrote only dismissedIts vague because you don't understand it
You don’t know what you talking about
UpAndComing
Veteran
You didn't ask to explain it. I gave you 4 points. If you knew what I was talking about, you would know what questions to ask to explain my point, but you didn't. Just stop breh
Gritsngravy
Superstar
Your deflectingYou didn't ask to explain it. I gave you 4 points. If you knew what I was talking about, you would know what questions to ask to explain my point, but you didn't. Just stop breh
UpAndComing
Veteran
And you're deflecting the 4 points I made on the topic. The irony
That’s just what they wanted people to believe. Mongols would send spies disguised as merchants and trade caravans into neighboring countries to learn the languages and culture, figure out what the political factions were, who was likely to flip sides, where your weak defenses were etc. Then once the information was secured the khan would have his delegates act outta pocket start talking shyt about how the great Khan was the master of the world and you had to submit or die. Naturally they would then be killed or imprisoned and the Mongols would say they broke non-existent international law and have a reason to invade.
If it was a one off thing I would say the emperors fukked up but Mongol delegates were constantly being executed when they traveled to other kingdoms and the Mongols would magically be fully prepared for warfare with thousands of troops stationed at the border and know all the secret passes and where the major cities were located. That lets you know it was a designed operation.
It was actually Europes disunity, feudalism and backwardness during this time that hurt the Mongols when they tried to invade. The Mongols were used to going in making the emperor run away and/or capturing and killing the emperor and the entire system would collapse. Europe however did not have one emperor they had dozens and those emperors had hundreds of lords who all ruled their own petty fiefdoms and they were constantly fighting each other.
You actually see this when the Mongols invaded Hungary. They won a big battle at Mohi and killed most of the royal army and forced the emperor to run away but they found themselves having to capture dozens of castles each with their own little lord. So the mongols sat around waiting for someone to come and say they surrender and pledge fealty to the great Khan but nobody came as the concept of national identity didn’t exist like it did in China or the Middle East. I think at best they would’ve destroyed Vienna but after that the terrain and political systems would have been too much to overcome especially with no dependable supply lines.
If not for the Mongols taking out the Islamic and Chinese empires I think Europe stays a backwater for a little while longer. But something about the European mindset. That merchant trader mindset that the Chinese, Indians and Africans hated and the Muslim’s tolerated. Just imagine getting on a boat, traveling thousands of miles on the open ocean, landing on an island and immediately start stabbing defenseless natives who didn’t even know what war was. That’s a being who was never bred to live harmoniously with its environment
TLDR: Mongols would use merchants and traders to plot invasions; they would’ve struggled to conquer Europe because it was just a bunch of petty fiefdoms. European greed and lack of scruples would’ve likely saw them dominate the world eventually anyway.
China tried that shyt before and got their monkey asses beat to Bolivia.
Chinese expansionism - Wikipedia
They'll probably stick to trading than traditional imperialism like EuropeChina tried that shyt before and got their monkey asses beat to Bolivia.
Chinese expansionism - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Probably all of Europe under caliphate
Are we saying that If the Muslims didn’t take over Constantinople, the Europeans may have had trade routes to Asia and there would be no need to go west to America ?
It was inevitable that some Old World power will go west. The desire for more trade is insatiable.
Are we saying that If the Muslims didn’t take over Constantinople, the Europeans may have had trade routes to Asia and there would be no need to go west to America ?
All facts.
They had thousands of years to set up their societies that way and women in those kingdoms had kids with land owners and civil servants over generations. All it took was technology transfer for them to get back on top. Africans on the other hand need a revamping of theeir societies:The Europeans only came up in the 18th century after the Industrial Revolution and the massive exploitation of the Global South that followed.
However, their reign has come to an end.
Actually, this is going back to how things used to be in history. For thousands of years, China and India were the global superpowers.
1) Get rid of tribalism
2) prioritize smart men having kids regardless of what tribe hes from. You do that through capitalism tbh. Later down the road once the countries are industrialized you can implement more socialism.
3) make education compulsory
4) give the talented an incentive to improve your society and make it safe for them to stick around. Africa's brain drain is the worst in the world. All these Nigerian engineers, STEM scientists and doctors in the west have expertise that they could take back with them
5) gotta attract foreign investments by making africa safer.
6) Africans gotta stop falling for divide and rule. It's the #1 reason why things are the way itt is. Some random French guy shows up and gives you money to overthrow your government? You better say no.
7) increase literacy rates and get rod of superstitions.
These are just the first steps before industrializing.
Why didn't they just reverse engineer those guns and produce their own. One thing that always puzzles me about when Africans first met the Europeans is their appraoach. When the Japanese first met the Europeans they set up "Rangaku" throughout their country to reverse engineer a lot of the goods that Europeans were giving them. The japanese were able to reverse engineer the first guns that Europeans gave them to the point where they started making theeir own. This is actually why Europeans started trading "expertise" instead down the line. They couldnt just sell trinkets like guns to the Japanese anymore. This would all lead to the japanese basically industrializing in basically 30 years (1860 to 1890). Now why did Africans just trade without thought? Native Americans and other indiginous groups did the same.... Just traded with the Euros yet didnt reverse engineer.
The only exception to this I think was Idris Alooma's empire. They were getting close to producing their own guns but their arab "brothers in islam" attacked them before they could perfect it.