How do Animals Evolve To Look Like Exact Replicas of Other Things in Nature?

[OsO]

The mutations are random errors that occur during meiosis. It doesn't matter what you agree with or not because this is indisputable fact. You might as well be saying that you don't agree with the argument that the Earth revolves around the Sun.

Types of mutations that occur randomly during meiosis are already documented. Examples.



The problem is you are arrogant enough to believe you can intuit and guess your way into conclusions regarding the most fundamental aspects of genetics and molecular biology that somehow went over the head of a couple of hundred years of scientific research just because you want to believe something that has zero evidence or logic behind.

Mutations can occur due to errors in DNA replication, radiation, viruses, or exposure to chemicals with mutagenic properties. But there is no systemic rhyme or reason to it by the "consciousness of mother Earth" or whatever you're telling yourself.

the mutations being random is not undisputed fact that is a theory stop being intellectually dishonest sun

 

[OsO]

People always look at adaptations, perfect for an environment like the leaf bug example or some kind of mimicry and then they say "look theres a planner! It's not random" but they fail to notice all the mutations that arise that are negative or hold no significant effect on the subject's fitness whatsoever. READ the goddamn science.

i am doing none of the above.

i used the leaf bug as an example because that seems to be our only common language of translation.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

the mutations being random is not undisputed fact that is a theory stop being intellectually dishonest sun

He is not being intellectually dishonest in the slightest. He is just stating scientific consensus. You're essentially just dealing in semantics here. Mutations occur through processes we know some details about, and can be a response to environmental stresses as much as errors in the cell mediated central dogma process. However we might as well call it random. Too much replication/transcription/translation occurs for us to reasonably gain any sort of insight into the statistical truth of this matter.

You really are on some "evidence of absence" donald rumsfeld shyt right now

i am doing none of the above.

i used the leaf bug as an example because that seems to be our only common language of translation.

THE NATURE OF A MUTATION IS BASED UPON THE RESULTANT PHENOTYPE CREATED FROM MUTATED DNA.Is this difficult to grasp? The environment does determine its function to a point, in that the mutation works inside the environment. What the hell are you even trying to say anymore

 

[Propaganda]

leyet, instead of coming to a conclusion, then trying to make all the pieces fit (often without even bothering to learn anything about the pieces), how about you just take in all the information you can first, THEN come with up with a verdict. you've continually proven yourself to be willfully ignorant about all types of subjects yet you always try to attach your esoteric/metaphysical worldview to them.

if you're really about learning and building and all that, you seriously need to realize that you're working backwards. there's a whole world of information beyond the deepak chopra type of shyt you're so heavily invested in. if you spend some time there, you'll probably find some of the answers you're looking for...you just might not like them.

 

[OsO]

leyet, instead of coming to a conclusion, then trying to make all the pieces fit (often without even bothering to learn anything about the pieces), how about you just take in all the information you can first, THEN come with up with a verdict. you've continually proven yourself to be willfully ignorant about all types of subjects yet you always try to attach your esoteric/metaphysical worldview to them.

if you're really about learning and building and all that, you seriously need to realize that you're working backwards. there's a whole world of information beyond the deepak chopra type of shyt you're so heavily invested in. if you spend some time there, you'll probably find some of the answers you're looking for...you just might not like them.

i appreciate the feedback.

but you really think im that far out there by postulating that the nature/function of genetic mutations are partly influenced by environment?

i dont think its outlandish at all.

 

[Dark Knyght]

Lmao at this entire thread. I've never seen one subject be explained so many different ways and in such detail to an indivdual that still doesn't understand.

 

[Type Username Here]

What is random?

Is there such a thing as random?

That's an important philosophical concept.

I'm not disputing evolution by natural selection, you'll know I ride for it, but the concept of random is important. This isn't just some quack shyt either, many physicists, especially theoretical physicists only believe "random" is a label for the yet to be understood.

 

[OsO]

Lmao at this entire thread. I've never seen one subject be explained so many different ways and in such detail to an indivdual that still doesn't understand.

there's nothing to explain.

this entire thread ive been doing two things: 1) trying to confirm the official scientific stance on genetic mutations and 2) stating i think the nature of a mutation is partly affected by the environment the organism is in

everything else was a failure of translation.

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

What is random?

Is there such a thing as random?

That's an important philosophical concept.

I'm not disputing evolution by natural selection, you'll know I ride for it, but the concept of random is important. This isn't just some quack shyt either, many physicists, especially theoretical physicists only believe "random" is a label for the yet to be understood.

it isn't random, it has a cause. but the outcome of the mutation seems to be very random.

 

[Type Username Here]

it isn't random, it has a cause. but the outcome of the mutation seems to be very random.

Again, I'm not disputing it.

I'm merely asking what is random?

If mutations depend on genetic makeup, and themselves are a product of certain positions of particles of matter in spacetime, then how random can things be? We know obviously at the subatomic level and quarks that there might be true randomness, but we aren't exactly talking about it at that level with DNA structure.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

It's random if the ostensibly relevant statistics are beyond our mental conception, observation ability, and/or mathematical toolsets.

 

[Type Username Here]

It's random if the ostensibly relevant statistics are beyond our mental conception, observation ability, and/or mathematical toolsets.

Which is what I was saying. It's only random to us because we don't have ways of measuring the data capable of determining specifics.

The 4 flows of honey video does a great job explaining this, specially regarding the 4th flow mentioned.

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

Again, I'm not disputing it.

I'm merely asking what is random?

If mutations depend on genetic makeup, and themselves are a product of certain positions of particles of matter in spacetime, then how random can things be? We know obviously at the subatomic level and quarks that there might be true randomness, but we aren't exactly talking about it at that level with DNA structure.

I typed out a response, and then realized that I'm too high and don't know what the fukk I'm talking about. Since these mutations would be occurring on the quantum level of DNA/RNA is it out of the question to think that it literally is a roll of the dice? But lets remember, without mutation we would never be here and its the only way for complex life to form. Pretty crazy to think about that though.

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

this is DNA from an electron microscope:

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

the mutations being random is not undisputed fact that is a theory stop being intellectually dishonest sun

There's nothing intellectually dishonest about anything I said. Mutations result from DNA replication errors that occur randomly or as a result of mutagenesis from radiation, chemical factors, or viruses. If I'm being intellectually dishonest, so is every single biologist at every prestigious academic institution in the world.

Yeah, egghead professors of biology at Harvard and Cambridge have are flawed in their studies, and Leyet knows better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation

In molecular biology and genetics, mutations are accidental changes in a genomic sequence of DNA: the DNA sequence of a cell's genome or the DNA or RNA sequence in some viruses. These random sequences can be defined as sudden and spontaneous changes in the cell.

Two classes of mutations are spontaneous mutations (molecular decay) and induced mutations caused by mutagens.

Mutagenesis may occur endogenously, for example through spontaneous hydrolysis, or through normal cellular processes that can generate reactive oxygen species and DNA adducts, or through error in replication and repair.[15] Mutagenesis may also arise as a result of the presence of environmental mutagens that induces changes to the DNA. The mechanism by which mutation arises varies according to the causative agent, the mutagen, involved. Most mutagens act either directly, or indirectly via mutagenic metabolites, on the DNA producing lesions. Some however may affect the replication or chromosomal partition mechanism, and other cellular processes.

Many chemical mutagens require biological activation to become mutagenic. An important group of enzymes involved in the generation of mutagenic metabolites is cytochrome P450.[16] Other enzymes that may also produce mutagenic metabolites include glutathione S-transferase and microsomal epoxide hydrolase. Mutagens that are not mutagenic by themselves but require biological activation are called promutagens.

Many mutations arise as a result of problems caused by the DNA lesions during replication, resulting in errors in replication. In bacteria, extensive damage to the DNA due to mutagens results in single-stranded DNA gaps during replication. This induces the SOS response, an emergency repair process that is also error-prone, thereby generating mutations. In mammalian cells, stalling of replication at a damaged sites induces a number of rescue mechanisms that help bypass DNA lesions, but which also may result in errors. The Y family of DNA polymerases specialize in DNA lesion bypass in a process termed translesion synthesis (TLS) whereby these lesion-bypass polymerases replace the stalled high-fidelity replicative DNA polymrase, transits the lesion and extend the DNA until the lesion has been passed so that normal replication can resume. These processes may be error-prone or error-free.
Spontaneous hydrolysis

DNA is not entirely stable in aqueous solution. Under physiological conditions the glycosidic bond may be hydrolyzed spontaneously and 10,000 purine sites in DNA are estimated to be depurinated each day in a cell.[15] Numerous DNA repair pathway exist for the DNA, however, if the apurinic site failed to be repaired, misincorporation of nucleotide may occur during replication. Adenine is preferentially incorporated by DNA polymerases in an apurinic site.

Cytidine may also become deaminated to uridine at one five-hundredth of the rate of depurination and can result in G to A transition. Eukaryotic cells also contains 5-methylcytosine, thought to be involved in the control of gene transcription, which can become deaminated into thymine.
Modification of bases

Bases may be modified endogenously by normal cellular molecules. For example DNA may be methylated by S-adenosylmethionine, and glycosylated by reducing sugars.

Many compounds, such as PAHs, aromatic amines, aflatoxin and pyrrolizidine alkaloids, may form reactive oxygen species catalyzed by cytochrome P450. These metabolites form adducts with the DNA, which can cause errors in replication, and the bulky aromatic adducts may form stable intercalation between bases and block replication. The adducts may also induce conformational changes in the DNA. Some adducts may also result in the depurination of the DNA,[17] it is however uncertain how significant such depurination as caused by the adducts is in generating mutation.[18]

Some alkylating agents such as N-Nitrosamines may also require the catalytic reaction of cytochrome-P450 for the formation of a reactive alkyl cation. Alkylation and arylation of bases can cause errors in replication. N7 and O6 of guanine and the N3 and N7 of adenine are most susceptible to attack; while N7-guanine adducts, which form the bulk of DNA adducts, appear to be non-mutagenic, alkylation at O6 of guanine is harmful because excision repair of O6-adduct of guanine may be poor in some tissues such as the brain.[19] The O6 methylation of guanine can result in G to A transition, while O4-methylthymine can be mispaired with guanine. The type of the mutation generated however may be dependent on the size and type of the adduct as well as the DNA sequence.[20]

Ionizing radiations and reactive oxygen species often oxidize guanine to produce 8-oxoguanine.
Crosslinking
Main article: Crosslinking of DNA

Some alkylating agents may produce crosslinking of DNA. Some natural occurring chemicals may also promotes crosslinking, such as psoralens after activation by UV radiation, and nitrous acid. Interstrand cross-linking is more damaging as it blocks replication and transcription and can cause chromosomal breakages and rearrangements. Some crosslinkers such as cyclophosphamide, mitomycin C and cisplatin are used as anticancer chemotherapeutic because their high degree of toxicity to proliferating cells.
Dimerization

UV radiation promotes the formation of a cyclobutyl ring between adjacent thymines, resulting in the formation of pyrimidine dimers.[21] In human skin cells, thousands of dimers may be formed in a day due to normal exposure to sunlight. DNA polymerase η may help bypass these lesions in an error-free manner;[22] however, individuals with defective DNA repair function, such as sufferers of Xeroderma pigmentosum, are sensitive to sunlight and may be prone to skin cancer.
Ethidium intercalated between two adenine-thymine base pairs.
Intercalation between bases

The planar structure of chemicals such as ethidium bromide and proflavine allows them to insert between bases in DNA, and cause frameshift mutation. The intercalation into DNA of anthracyclines such as daunorubicin and doxorubicin interferes with the functioning of the enzyme topoisomerase II, blocking replication as well as causing mitotic homologous recombination.
Arrows indicates chromosomal breakages due to DNA damage
Backbone damage

Ionizing radiations may produce highly reactive free radicals that can break the bonds in the DNA. Double-stranded breakages are especially damaging and hard to repair, producing translocation and deletion of part of a chromosomes. Alkylating agents like mustard gas may also cause breakages in the DNA backbone. Oxidative stress may also generate highly reactive oxygen species that can damage the DNA. Incorrect repair of other damages induced by the highly reactive species can also lead to mutations.
Insertional mutagenesis
Main article: Insertional mutagenesis

Transposon and virus may insert DNA sequence into coding region or functional elements of a gene and result in inactivation of the gene.
Error in replication

While most mutagens produce effects that ultimately result in error in replication, some mutagens may affect directly the replication process. Base analog such as 5-bromouracil may substitute for thymine in replication. Some metals such as cadmium, chromium, and nickel may alter the fidelity of DNA replication.